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JJHess
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# Posted: 14 Dec 2014 17:04
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A few months ago I built and installed a ram pump to get the water on our property from the spring to the holding tank behind the cabin. The pump pushes the water through 520' of 3/4" black well pipe and lifts it about 16'. It takes about 7 minutes to fill a 5-gallon bucket so we get decent flow.
I installed the pump in late October and it ran through the first week of December without a problem. We are in north central PA and did have several freezing days & nights during that time. When I got to the cabin for bear season (the weekend before Thanksgiving) the pump was still running fine. It was 13 degrees when I got to the cabin that night.
I did not make any changes to the pump, length of pipe, ect and when I walked out of the cabin Thurs 4 December to go deer hunting the pipe was frozen and the pump had stopped. It was 26 degrees that morning. The pressure gauge still read 25psi on the pump so I don't think the pump stopped.
Does it make sense that the water line would freeze at 26 degrees but not at 13? I'm at a loss for what happened. The pump was running fine and still had pressure so I know that didn't stop running until after the line froze.
I brought the pump home and took it apart and there were not obstructions inside.
Any ideas?
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Littlecooner
Member
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# Posted: 14 Dec 2014 19:03
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With that length of line, it could be a factor of TIME that is causing the freezing. How long have it been below freezing on the day you arrived earlier in the year when it was 13? How long had it been below 32 when you arrived when it was 26? Water lines freeze slowly depending on movement of water and time standing in the lines and the time below freezing, in my experience.
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fasenuff
Member
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# Posted: 14 Dec 2014 19:38
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You did not mention if the sun was shining or not but a sunny day would help keep the black pipe from freezing at lower temps. Could be a difference there. Also any heat rising from the ground would help keep it from freezing. A few days of freezing temps sometimes are needed before the ground freezes solid and you lose all heat rising from the ground.
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Nirky
Member
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2014 03:09
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It's simple, you are measuring ambient air temperature, not the temperature of the water itself.
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JJHess
Member
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2014 07:11
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Littlecooner - The temps were below freezing for over 48 hours the time it was 13. It was actually almost 40 the day before it was 26 at night.
Fasenuff - The line runs through the woods and only really gets any sun late in the afternoon. Most days were cloudy around that time.
Nirky - I see your point, but it was warmer both day and night the day or two before the line froze up.
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spencerin
Member
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2014 00:36
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I suggest, as others have, the ground temp. The ground was not cold enough yet the weekend before Thanksgiving, so the temp of the water coming out of the ground was warmer, and geothermal heat also kept the pipeline warmer. It takes a lot of energy (or lack thereof) to change the temperature of water, which is why water heats and cools much more slowly than air.
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JJHess
Member
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2014 07:10
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Thanks for the input. I think I'll wrap the line with foam pipe insulation next year and see what happens.
I don't really need the water running non-stop all winter, we can bucket it from the spring if necessary. Plus it's difficult to get to our property once the snow and ice start accumulating on the road so we don't use the place most of the winter.
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beachman
Member
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2014 19:26
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I hear you JJ on the freeze up situation. After the freeze, we usually stop going to our place as It is remote and too much stuff to carry in. Could spend a night or two but would have to lug in a lot of water. Toilet is frozen but we could use the outhouse. Totally off grid.
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