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Small Cabin Forum / General Forum / Break ins/cabin security
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Bushwhacked
Member
# Posted: 29 Jun 2017 00:16
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In relation to cabin security, I just saw this video today. I have heard of safety glass..... not quite like this though (The last one in the video is obviously the best).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_CiLZY-HGw

KinAlberta
Member
# Posted: 11 Jul 2017 22:56 - Edited by: KinAlberta
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Quoting: Bushwhacked
# Posted: 29 Jun 2017 00:16
Reply Quote

In relation to cabin security, I just saw this video today. I have heard of safety glass..... not quite like this though (The last one in the video is obviously the best).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_CiLZY-HGw


I have what was called ACE ClearDefense coatings on some glass (home not cabin). Some of it is on tempered glass door inserts and the installer said it would have been better on regular/ plate glass. I guess the tempered glass could cave in or be pushed in whereas regular glass would tend to stay in the frame.

Years ago there was some split / lawsuit over this company. There may be more than one similarly named product out there now. It sounded great when I bought it and nearly 20 yrs later you'd never know it was there. No yellowing, etc.

https://usace.com/security-laminates/

Bushwhacked
Member
# Posted: 12 Jul 2017 01:51
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Thanks for the info. Always nice to hear from someone that has actually used/tested a product.

I will check em out.

KinAlberta
Member
# Posted: 3 Aug 2017 09:45
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Interesting article:

Security: It's lights, camera, action to beat theft

http://m.independent.ie/business/farming/security-its-lights-camera-action-to-beat-th eft-30412491.html

KinAlberta
Member
# Posted: 12 Nov 2017 09:20
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Shows video taken by security camera:


CTV Toronto: Door kicked down in break-in | CTV News

http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=995596

KinAlberta
Member
# Posted: 12 Nov 2017 09:45 - Edited by: KinAlberta
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How about this for a garage / shed man-door.

Simply mount a fake door, where it looks logical, that’s completely and invisibly screwed into place. Then around the corner install an inward opening door but on the garage or shed exterior, then create an invisible outward opening door via a panel of metal or whatever siding you’re using (or a shelf unit, firewood rack or whatever) and invisibly hinge that panel. (Maybe use a rope or cord with a counterweight to keep it closed.)

KinAlberta
Member
# Posted: 16 Nov 2017 00:01 - Edited by: KinAlberta
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I was thinking that I might put a layer of that butyl tape, chicken wire, etc. on the door and cover it all with an extra layer of plywood to make it tougher to just saw through with a cordless saw. Maybe even grease up stuff, add smelly fluid in hose, etc. that would be exposed via cutting to make any break in attempt really messy.


Googling gumming up blades and found this:



“I have made all the initial framing drilled my pilot holes in the 4 corners, and now I need to cut through approx. 4 inches of layered tar paper , roll roofing, tar, ect. My sawzall blade just gums up immediately and a utility knife will take forever, does anyone know how to cut this or what to cut it with? any ideas would be appreciated.”

http://bbs2.mrlandlord.com/display.php?id=14027317



Bushwhacked
Member
# Posted: 21 Nov 2017 16:44
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If you are looking to layer up stuff to make it hard to cut, add a layer of 1/2" hardie board.

KinAlberta
Member
# Posted: 18 Dec 2017 20:54
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Well sometime in the last couple weeks a bunch of cabins including ours had their garages and sheds broken into. I haven’t been out there yet but our neighbour texted photos showing our padlocks either cut off or the hasps pried off. The neighbour didn’t see anything obvious or valuable stolen, and that’s apparently the case for couple other neighbours that he talked with. They’re missing some extension cords, wiring, etc.

Maybe they were just ‘taking inventory’.

I may have to do some thinking about deterrents. Maybe a sign saying everything is marked.

I should go get a sign made up saying:

Hi!
Have you noticed the
hidden cameras yet?



KinAlberta
Member
# Posted: 18 Dec 2017 20:59 - Edited by: KinAlberta
Reply 


Quoting: Bushwhacked
If you are looking to layer up stuff to make it hard to cut, add a layer of 1/2" hardie board.


I may just do that. A layer of that flashing membrane and then some cement board.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Grace-Vycor-Plus-4-in-x-75-ft-Roll-Fully-Adhered-Flashing -5003100/203057402




I think I need to put some padlock / hasp protectors on as well.

I’ve never seen them around here so I might just find a DIY alternative.
Maybe an electrical box or two or joist hangers or something to make it tough to use pry bars and bolt cutters. Don’t know how to defend against cordless grinders though.


Google image search of things like padlock hasp protectors brings up a number of choices. Big in the UK and Australia it seems. Not so much in North America.

[img]http://cdn6.bigcommerce.com/s-az5chcq/product_images/uploaded_images/elongatedlockguard.jpg?t\u003d1453157207[/img]



http://www.n-locks.com/product-locking-protector.php

KinAlberta
Member
# Posted: 18 Dec 2017 22:06 - Edited by: KinAlberta
Reply 


Dremel and Angle Grinder vs padlock

There’s a good commentary with suggestions and alternatives is this article:




The Padlock's Dark Secret - Key Security Services

“This past month a local storage facility had 40 units robbed in one night. The location was gated and they had security cameras (that did not work), but the thought that came to my mind was the padlocks. I mean, those thieves had to get past 40 padlocks, do it quickly, and do it quietly. The dark secret is that most padlocks are really not all that secure. If these common thieves could defeat dozens of them without attracting attention, imagine how long it would take them to defeat your lock. In fact, you don’t need to imagine, watch the following video to see just how easy it is to defeat a common padlock. ...”

http://www.key2security.com/padlocks-dark-secret/



Master Lock Round Lock Shackle Cut with Angle
Grinder 30 seconds!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JaPljrofLWo


MUCH more work here:

Grinder vs Brinks disc padlock R70 !!!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qjxPWPzZmQg



.

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 19 Dec 2017 09:44
Reply 


Quoting: KinAlberta
Google image search of things like padlock hasp protectors brings up a number of choices. Big in the UK and Australia it seems. Not so much in North America.


America, we use American Puck locks, these are round, there is 2 types, cast and billet steel. They make a hasp for them too, you cant get to the lock pin. The unit is all stainless and uses carriage bolts to secure.
https://www.taylorsecurity.com/store/Master-Lock-Padlocks-Abus-Locks-American-Lock-Se samee-Pad-Locks/hasps-and-hasp-locks/

Bushwhacked
Member
# Posted: 20 Dec 2017 20:45
Reply 


Those locks that Toyota gave a link to are the most secure thing you can buy off the shelf that I know of. I had them on a couple work vans.

Its super easy to get past a pad lock. They are incredibly easy to pick and you can break them with quite a few hand tools (not talking hammer). You really don't need a grinder or even bolt cutters. I went on a BMX bike trip with a buddy and he left the keys to the locks for the bikes at his house after we had drove out 2 hrs to get to where we were gonna down hill. He ended up taking two rocks and placing one under the lock to help protect his truck bed, and smashed the lock with the other rock... prob took him about 2-3 min to get the lock broke so we could ride.

Locks keep honest people out.

mahasiswabaru
Member
# Posted: 21 Dec 2017 22:27
Reply 


really touching..

KinAlberta
Member
# Posted: 23 Dec 2017 12:39 - Edited by: KinAlberta
Reply 


I have a couple puck locks out at the lake, in a cupboard.

I do plan to use them but they sure make it look like something of value is locked up plus they don’t mount well on all doors/frames. I need to do some thinking there. Plus maybe camouflage their mount or spray them black or something.

To get into our garage on the break-in before this latest one, they used bolt cutters on the padlock then hammered a hole right through the man door to reach inside and undo the handset lock.

The puck lock wouldn’t have worked on that inward opening door.

The garage is an old 1970s “garage package” that was never sided. It’s just stained plywood. The 32” man door and 16’ garage door are both on the same end and the plywood is delaminating and the brickmould/trim is rotting so what I’m going to do now is build out the front wall with vertical PT 2x lumber* then put an old 36” metal skinned door overlapping the 32” frame by 2” on each side. I’ll just use strap hinges and long carriage bolts on the hinges. This will give me an outward swinging door flush with the outside wall so I could then use a puck lock on it. With it backed by the 32” frame, there’s no way that they could kick it in or run an ATV up to it.

I may even leave the old 32” inward opening door in place and put a drop bar behind it. Then run a pull string (cable/rope) to an inconspicuous spot on the outside wall to lift it.

Soon I hope to clad the whole old garage in metal siding.


Anyone hear of thieves cutting through walls?


* vertical 2x6s, 2x8”s & 2x12”s will fit nicely on the outsides and between the two doors. Plus maybe a spacer for the added door thickness. (Maybe clad first and metal spacers behind strap hinges over metal ribs???) Then a 22’ wide header right across the front over both doors. This will stiffen up the old 16’ garage door header as well. I think it’s just two 2x6s right now - all under a gable end. Then metal clad siding over it all.

The surface mount hinges will be the weak point as a cordless tool could likely cut them in seconds. Maybe an in frame pin would lock it tight.

Bushwhacked
Member
# Posted: 25 Dec 2017 01:57
Reply 


Ive seen guys go though a wall with a portable circular saw and a portable reciprocating saw. One of them was on a guys shed that he put a nice metal door on, a metal jamb reinforcement, amor plates around the deadbolt area, longer hinge screws, and a fairly nice lockset. I bet he had a 600-700 bux in the door and hardware. Two feet to the side of that door was a large rectangle hole one day....

Empower
Member
# Posted: 27 Dec 2017 12:54
Reply 


Hi,
I am new to this forum and am just starting to design my cabin. Given the security issues you have all been discussing, am thinking about building a small, modular cabin that I can bring in and assemble on-site. Just an 8x8 fishing shack really. That way, when I leave, I’ll take it home with me. So I’m thinking it’ll have to be light, to be easily carried in to my site, so I think I could use 2x2s to frame modules of say 2’ wide by say 80” high. That would amount to 16 modules. And I’d securely anchor each corner to counter wind gusts. Built a prototype module using corrugated PVC on the outside, vapor barrier, with rigid 1” 1/2 insulation inside and then aluminum paper (to keep heat in and make fire resistant). Each module weights about 10 lbs, so easy to handle. Roof modules the same (but 8 2x6 modules). Re the floor: have decided that building a floor on my site and leaving it year around is the best option. But to make it less attractive to thieves, was thinking I’d just make it out of logs, covered with plastic and then leveled using sand (am near the beach). Any of this make sense?

deercula
Member
# Posted: 27 Dec 2017 13:23
Reply 


Just get a small lightweight camper and save yourself the trouble.

Empower
Member
# Posted: 28 Dec 2017 23:26
Reply 


Thanks for your answer deercula. The thing is, I can’t get a camper to where I want to set up... just a foot path. The other thing is, what kind of lightweight camper would 1 G buy me?

NorthRick
Member
# Posted: 29 Dec 2017 16:25
Reply 


What you want is a tent.

KinAlberta
Member
# Posted: 1 Jan 2018 02:41
Reply 


A wall tent.

Empower
Member
# Posted: 1 Jan 2018 19:14
Reply 


Thanks NorthRick and KinAlberta. Good suggestion. I checked out wall tents. A small insulated one is over $1,000. I like the fast set-up. But one Exacto knife cut and they’re in. Not that a flimsy 2x2 wall would be that much greater an impediment.

KinAlberta
Member
# Posted: 3 Jan 2018 13:04 - Edited by: KinAlberta
Reply 


I think I’ve found a cheap hasp protector workaround to stop them from just taking bolt cutters to the pad locks.

I’ve picked some of these really heavy duty joist hangers at Habitat for Humanity for between $2-$10. (They may no longer be to code or something because new prices were upwards of $50/ea.)

However turned sideways or some way yet to be determined I think I can mount them over the hasp and padlock to make it awkward if not impossible to get bolt cutters or an angle grinder in there to cut the lock/hasp.). A big one might even protect a puck lock’s carriage bolts.)




https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/a5f82a41-802a-4374-9944-70f28e2cbf0 4/svn/simpson-strong-tie-joist-hangers-hgus28-2-64_1000.jpg


There are other protectors out there but they can be very, very pricy.


https://www.sitebox.ltd.uk/prodimages/Security/Padlock%20Bars/pb1pd1-ss.jpg
http://m.sitebox.ltd.uk/medium-duty-hasp-and-staple-padlock-protector-opb1pd1#.Wk0b4C sTGEc

Only $12 USD:


https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91rRr2wvBzL._SX355_.jpg

KinAlberta
Member
# Posted: 3 Jan 2018 13:17
Reply 


So much for this:

Boron steel vs bolt cutters:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TXQOO3RMXNM


Nuts!

How To Prevent Bolt Cutter Attacks On Padlocks - YouTube
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=msDcioCrV-E

KinAlberta
Member
# Posted: 3 Jan 2018 13:24
Reply 


Now if this isn’t disheartening to watch

Review Multipick's Kronos "Master Key"
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JKZ_vJDMJ9A

Empower
Member
# Posted: 3 Jan 2018 17:02
Reply 


Many thanks KinAlberta for your research. i really like these low cost preventive measures. Of course, these will only slow down a very determined thief, but that is sometimes enough. When I was in France sometime ago, I bought a big, good quality, hardened steel padlock, a Vachette, basically a deadlock. The advantage is they can’t pick it and it’d be tough to cut, unless they have mega-cutters.

Empower
Member
# Posted: 3 Jan 2018 17:04
Reply 


Here’s a picture of the padlock.
Vachette padlock
Vachette padlock


TX2TNCowboy
Member
# Posted: 31 Jan 2018 17:31
Reply 


I am still investigating security system options, but for a quick "deterrent";

I went to Lowe's and found a small outdoor motion detector that would trigger an adapter on an indoor electrical outlet. It can be set to turn on the power from than outlet for 1 - 30 minutes with increments of 1, 5, 15, 30.
I mounted the motion detector under the leading edge of the roof of the front porch FACING the door (NOT over the front door where it is easily visible). Before I leave the cabin, I close the blinds and put a table lamp next to the window. Set the timer to come on for 30 minutes when motion is detected. The light can easily be seen through blinds but that's all.
If someone walks up and sees the motion detector and then the light comes on for just 1 or even 5 minutes, they'll quickly sort out what's going. They'll "test-trigger" it a couple of times and then break-in. But with this configuration, they don't see the motion detector because it's tucked away behind them. When the light stays on and stays on and stays on... They're likely to not want to test whether or not someone may have actually turned the light on just as they walked up.
Always set motion activated lights/devices to the maximum time. Short times just give away that it's motion detect activated.
Make sense?

deercula
Member
# Posted: 31 Jan 2018 21:41
Reply 


I would also have a radio come on so they hear noise as well.

Empower
Member
# Posted: 1 Feb 2018 11:16
Reply 


I had a friend who has an audio recoding of a dog barking triggered by a motion detector

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