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Wakefield74
Member
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# Posted: 9 Mar 2018 10:38
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I am trying to figure out how I want to heat my small cabin. It’s 760 sq ft, 2 story loft. I thought about a small wood stove, but the floor space it takes up and the mess it makes were my issues. Anyone have any good direct vent heaters they could recommend? Completely off grid, solar power, so no 120 fan would be practical.
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 9 Mar 2018 11:13
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http://dickinsonmarine.com/product_cat/propane-fireplace-heaters/
12Vdc, uses external air and vents outside.
They can be found cheaper than retail, shop around.
There are other threads in here on this subject.
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deercula
Member
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# Posted: 9 Mar 2018 13:34
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This is what i have in my 16 X 30. A bit expensive, and takes a few hours to heat the place up, but works for me. Shop around for better price.
https://www.williamscomfortprod.com/product/direct-vent-furnaces/
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Williams-30-000-BTU-Hr-Direct-Vent-Furnace-Natural-Gas-He ater-with-Wall-or-Cabinet-Mounted-Thermostat-3003622/100084617
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 9 Mar 2018 14:25 - Edited by: ICC
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The Williams looks good. Northern Tools used sell, still might, a couple of direct vent heaters under the Housewarmer brand name. They were made by Empiresocheck them as well to see if they have any that work w/o electricity. The Housewarmer brand work without electricity of any kind and had an optional fan. The heat just takes longer to spread when there is no fan. I have a couple in use for many years.
The Dickinson is way too small for that size cabin. It has a maximum output of 5500 BTU. To compare a 1500 watt electric heater is = to about 5100 BTU. You would need several Dickinsons and break the bank doing it that way.
Depending on the climate zone you might need as much as 30,000 BTU/hour. see here--- https://www.wikihow.com/Calculate-BTU-Per-Square-Foot
As for wood heat, I don't find the wood burners to be too dirty. That can vary and partly depends on your dust tolerance. Opening the door carefully, slowly after cracking the latch open can made a difference with some stoves.
With 760 sq ft you might be better off with a couple of direct vent heaters in different areas of the cabin. Especially if you are used to forced air distributed heat as in a norma on grid home.
If this is a part time use cabin more heaters is better than a single IMO. With a couple propane as well as a wood burner you can heat up a very cold cabin more rapidly --- a few hours instead of 6 or more. Then let the wood fire die out and maintain comfort with propane if you want. Of course that costs more $$ but in the end may be advantageous.
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SCSJeff
Member
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# Posted: 9 Mar 2018 15:21
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Just to add to ICC...
I have wood stove and Williams 30K direct vent in main living area of 1st floor. I also have a kerosene heater in the "master" bedroom on the 1st floor at the other side of cabin. (I'm waiting to catch a smaller(cheaper) direct vent on Craigslist for the bedroom). Entire cabin is about 1500 sq ft.
Was up at cabin 2 months ago. I arrived to 8 Deg. F. Was 15 degrees inside cabin when I got there. Starting up all heaters, I got the cabin to 70F (in main living area) in about 3 hours. Once up to temp, the single Williams pretty well kept temperature for the cabin. (Master Bedroom got a bit chilly, but fine for sleeping). By morning it was right at 0F outside.
Upstairs heats up very fast and keeps heat great with just the Williams going to...
When I leave cabin to go into town or go out hunting, I just turn the Williams back to about 50F and the whole cabin holds heat pretty well for the time I'm gone...
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Wakefield74
Member
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# Posted: 9 Mar 2018 16:09
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Thanks for all the input, the cabin is in Sussex county Va, southeastern Va. Some mornings in the 20s, some moderate snow fall with winter storms. The other reason I was thinking LP heater was I am installing a LP over/stove. I am installing vents in the ceiling, to circulate the heat along with the open stairway. Just her dryer in good.
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cspot
Member
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# Posted: 9 Mar 2018 19:29 - Edited by: cspot
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I agree with ICC. I would think about putting 2 heaters in a cabin of that size.
You may want to consider what we did. We have a wood stove and a housewarmer brand from Northern that is 15,000 BTU. Our cabin is about 600 SF on a single floor. We still need to seal up things a little better and finish the inside, but I think just the propane heater will have a tough time when temps are around zero. The two of them can heat the place up in a hurry when we arrive. The propane is on a thermostat so it won't run much when the wood stove is going. It is nice though that it kicks on in the middle of the night when the wood stove dies down. Also you can just run it when you just need a little heat and the wood stove would be too much.
I agree that the woodstove does take up some room, but to me it just isn't a cabin without one. We got a glass front, so you can watch the flames dance in the evening.
PS. We also put the heaters on opposite sides of the cabin. With no fan to circulate air it helps spread the heat out.
Here are some pics. Like I said we have to finish the inside this year.
39116507581_7b77be8f.jpg
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36861612712_0e3c6d67.jpg
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rockies
Member
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# Posted: 9 Mar 2018 19:50
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Empire makes some nice small direct vent propane wall heaters.
http://empirezoneheat.com/products/direct-vent-wall-furnaces/direct-vent-wall-furnace s/
The fire, fuel and combustion fumes are all contained within the unit and are exhausted to the exterior. Nothing but heat enters the interior.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 9 Mar 2018 20:11
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I forgot to mention that altitude can affect the BTU rating of propane heaters and other appliances. Usually when above 5000 feet you need smaller orifices to compensate for the lower air density. For example, my 18K heater is only about 14K because of the 9500 foot elevation. We made orifice changes to the cook stove, furnaces, water heater and so on. Keep in mind some places may devalue the gas fuel used instead of making changes to the equipment. I don't know if that is done much with propane, but do know that Denver, CO has devalued natural gas.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 9 Mar 2018 20:15
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It would be nice to resize that last image down to something like only 800 or 900 pixels wide as it makes the whole topic hard to read especially on a small screen. Or use the forum upload feature instead of using posting by inserting a third party host link.
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cspot
Member
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# Posted: 9 Mar 2018 20:43
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Quoting: ICC It would be nice to resize that last image down to something like only 800 or 900 pixels wide as it makes the whole topic hard to read especially on a small screen. Or use the forum upload feature instead of using posting by inserting a third party host link.
Is that better?  Most forum boards automatically resize to fit, but this one doesn't seem to do that.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 9 Mar 2018 23:13
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yes, thanks, much better. This forum doesn't have any fancy stuff,but when the photos are small enough the pages display very well on small screens. Better than some forums that resize images auto.
Re heater sizes--- big difference too on how fast the place heats up with poor or real good insulation.
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deercula
Member
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# Posted: 9 Mar 2018 23:39
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You will most likely need a large bulk LP tank for this size cabin. I've fed my Williams with (2) 30# tanks run into 1 regulator. One 20# tank was not large enough to supply it in cold temps. I'm planning to go to bulk delivery this year.
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deercula
Member
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2018 13:00
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Wakefield, check this out:
https://www.efireplacestore.com/cpf-78168.html?Select%20Blade%20Finish=Nickel&gclid=C I-8yubnxNICFc61wAodI4gGhQ&refnum=MAR-525-5769#caption
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cspot
Member
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2018 15:48 - Edited by: cspot
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Quoting: ICC yes, thanks, much better. This forum doesn't have any fancy stuff,but when the photos are small enough the pages display very well on small screens. Better than some forums that resize images auto. Re heater sizes--- big difference too on how fast the place heats up with poor or real good insulation.
That is true. We have R30 in the ceiling and R19 in the walls. We still need to seal it up around some windows and stuff. I know the hurricane straps on my trusses cause the insulation to be up in the air a little and some places you can see a little daylight around. Once we get that stuff tightened up it will make a big difference. Plus when we finish the inside walls in that should help as well.
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VC_YamahaRider
Member
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# Posted: 13 Mar 2018 10:53
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cspot - I see you have the same housewarmer direct vent heater that I have. Do you have trouble starting it? It doesn't matter if I am gone for a week or 2 months, it is very hard to light. Do you take the small viewing window off and light manually or do you use the electronic igniter? I am using 2 100lb tanks with one regulator and they are about 35 feet from the heater. I do turn the tanks off before I leave each time. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.
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FishHog
Member
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# Posted: 13 Mar 2018 13:35
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Quoting: VC_YamahaRider it is very hard to light. Do you take the small viewing window off and light manually or do you use the electronic igniter? I am using 2 100lb tanks with one regulator and they are about 35 feet from the heater.
its not that its hard to light, its that your propane lines are draining while your away and you need to refill them and get propane back to your heater before you have the right propane mix that will burn. Mine does the same. The trick is don't be in such a hurry, push the pilot button and wait a couple minutes for the line to fill back with the right mix of propane.
I have a light attached to my same line, right beside the heater, so I turn it on for a couple minutes to flush the line before I even try to light my heater.
With just the pilot, it can take quite a while to get propane back down your line to your heater.
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Moomps
Member
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# Posted: 13 Mar 2018 14:02
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I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but if I install a direct vent model like discussed here, can I use the flexible propane line like I use on the NuWay propane stove I have in my cabin right now? Or do I need to install hard lines instead?
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 13 Mar 2018 14:25
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Quoting: FishHog your propane lines are draining while you are away and you need to refill them and get propane back to your heater before you have the right propane mix that will burn.
The diagnosis is correct. However, the real solution is to find where the propane is leaking out of the piping.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 13 Mar 2018 14:29
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Quoting: Moomps Or do I need to install hard lines instead?
Most locations permit gas flexible tubing connections. Last word on what is correct falls to the local codes.
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FishHog
Member
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# Posted: 13 Mar 2018 14:45
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Quoting: ICC The diagnosis is correct. However, the real solution is to find where the propane is leaking out of the piping.
mine is the actual heater and its so minimal I'm not worried about it, but after a week away, it does take a bit of time to relight. If I shut my valves off I hold pressure for days, but the valve on my heater will obviously drain slightly.
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cspot
Member
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# Posted: 13 Mar 2018 18:05
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I don't have any leaks as I checked mine. It does take a little bit to get the propane up as I shut off the tanks when I am gone as well. Remember that between the valve on the stove and the actual pilot light there is a section of piping. There is very little gas required for the pilot light so it takes a bit to even get the air out of that line.
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VC_YamahaRider
Member
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# Posted: 20 Mar 2018 13:16
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I have no leaks either. I am still curious to whether anyone takes the pilot viewing window off to light it manually with a lighter. The instructions say to take the window off even if you are lighting it with the electronic igniter or at least that is how I read it.
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FishHog
Member
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# Posted: 20 Mar 2018 17:30
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If you "have no leaks", your pilot would light right away. the fact is most systems will slowly leak propane out, and air in to the point that after sitting for a period of time you don't have a burnable concentration of gas in your line and you need to allow that non-burnable gas to run through your system until you get a burnable mix. Pilots are such a low flow that it takes some time to do that.
I'm not talking a measurable leak while doing a leak test, but trust me, you have on if your pilot doesn't ignite immediately. It just is the way these things work, its not a flaw or a problem, its just the nature of the beast.
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Jebediah
Member
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2018 05:43
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Here in NS Canada, your vented heater has to be, I think a min of 6' from any openings/ window or door, don't quote me on that as it was sometime ago when an inspector had mentioned that to me, I wondered why the place had a few solid glass windows that didn't open...... I have two empire heaters, hardly use them now as I replaced the cook stove with a large wood stove.
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Wilbour
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2018 20:24
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Maybe you meant 6"  ?
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2018 21:48
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No, 6 feet. 6 feet from windows, doors, anything that might allow exhaust to enter the cabin. Also there may be rules for distances from exterior propane tanks, etc etc. The distances may vary by jurisdiction.
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FishHog
Member
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2018 10:00
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I never understood who would run their heater and have their window open
Good thing we have laws to make sure the window is far enough away
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Wilbour
Member
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2018 10:38
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Am I not reading the install instructions correctly?
Looks like in Canada they recommend 6" from an opening window and 6' from a mechanical intake.
Let me know if this is not correct.
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2018 10:47
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That's the info I used too. Note it is 6" for appliances under 10k btu and 12" for those over.
I think, Wilbour, you have the 9k btu heater?
The hardest part for me was the 3' from a corner of a building. It has something to do with wind. But in a tiny house. 3' is a long way!
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