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Small Cabin Forum / General Forum / Purchasing a log cabin: questions/excitement
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Janemarie
Member
# Posted: 20 Nov 2018 08:35 - Edited by: Janemarie
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Hello Dear Souls, I found this forum several weeks ago and have lost tons of time relaxing reading the posts. What a nice community. Here is the long and short of my story: When my father died a few years ago, I inherited a small piece of land in NW Montana, even though I live in Central New York. I decided to sell it and reinvest it closer to where I live. In my family, I am a fourth generation "land ethic" person, meaning that in my family, there was a strong value that if you owned land, it was your job to be a good steward of it and take care of it, make sure you leave it healthier than you found it if necessary, and never kid yourself that you "own" it. We are just stewards. This was kind of howler family identified ourselves. So, I looked and found a nice piece of land nearer to me in Central New York with 38 acres and (drum roll)....a nice log cabin!!!! The cabin, a lok-n-logs structure of 16 x 28 feet with a loft with completely sloped walls, is in good condition, with septic, electric, a well with sweet water and nice interior. I can't tell you how many tasks in my life I have blown off while I decorate and redecorate this cabin in my mind. I am supposed to close on it later this week. I have a few questions:

1) The floor, which is beautiful (random hard woods polished and pieced together) is not insulated at all. It is up on piers but I wonder if a) it will be possible to get someone to go under there and spray on some kind of insulation or b) if putting the area rugs with pads under them down will give enough insulation to survive. I am not planning on heavy use during the coldest months. The cabin is just log thickness and does not have any insulation. The inside walls are the backs of the outside logs. A real "log cabin." Seems fairly air tight. Windows have stockades on them for winter. How do you insulate if the inside is just the back of the outside logs. I like this aesthetic.
2) The cabin has not been stained in probably 15 years. I have read all of the comments about staining and cleaning. I was wondering what people think of just blasting it with some gentle organic matter and then staining it dark brown. I would have to leave the interior raw, I think.
3) I am considering putting a Jotul in it, either an F 100 or a F3 CB. The insurance company is requiring me to have double piping, but I have read that this loses a lot of heat on the smaller ones and the bigger ones can make the whole space too hot. What do people suggest?
I will post some pictures once I own it. And by the way, those people who were asking where one can still buy land cheaply: look in Central and upstate New York. It may not be the south kind of prices, but we don't have many poisonous spiders or snakes.
Thanks in advance to all who comment and take the time to read this.

Fanman
Member
# Posted: 20 Nov 2018 09:37
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Our cabin (in southern NY) is also uninsulated. It was originally built as a summer cabin, but we use it into the fall and the occasional winter weekend. Heat is an old inefficient wood stove in the living room and a very small coal stove in the bedroom. The wood stove only burns for a few hours but the coal stove will go all night (and get hot enough that I need to crack a window), so in the morning I get up, light a fire in the cold living room, and go back and have breakfast in the bedroom until the living room warms up in an hour or so (or I don't bother, and light the living room fire when I get back from hiking or whatever I'm doing that day). I have plenty of firewood available so I don't worry about efficiency.

In mid October I drain the pipes, so there's no water through the winter. If you don't do that and have to keep the place heated while you're gone, the lack of insulation might be a bigger deal.

If you want to know more about wood stoves than you ever knew there was to know, check out the forums at hearth.com

fiftyfifty
Member
# Posted: 20 Nov 2018 09:58 - Edited by: fiftyfifty
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Nice!
1) I would hold off on any plans to insulate now, and instead use it for 1 winter and see how it goes with rugs. If after a year, you decide you do want to insulate, I would focus on the roof and floor rather than the logs, as the logs are what make the building special. Yes, somebody can go below and spray on insulation if needed. In terms of the ceiling, how I would do it would depend on how the ceiling looks now. If the current look is worth saving, you can have sheets of foam put on top of the current roof (after taking the shingles off) and install a new roof on top of that. Although if the roof is new, I might not do anything at all.
3) I have a cabin almost your exact same size and put in a Jotul 602 with double wall pipe, and I wish my stove were a lot bigger. Then again, I am using it down to -20F, and I am heating it up from nothing (our cabin has no water so we don't heat it at all when not there.) The good news for you is that since you have electricity, that gives you a lot of flexibility--you can install baseboard heating if you don't have it already. So probably the difference in the size of the 2 stoves you are considering is not that big of a deal.

silverwaterlady
Member
# Posted: 20 Nov 2018 19:17 - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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I have a log cabin that went uninsulated for quite awhile. It was impossible to keep it warm with a 40,000 BTU propane stove. All the heat went up and out the roof.
Last year we got spray foam in the floor and roof. Now at 17F we are toasty warm.
However, it is $35 per day for the propane. We could not get insured because we are off the main road if we had a wood stove.
This cost keeps us from spending as much time as we would like at our cabin in the winter.
As far as staining the logs. Call the people at Perma Chink. Their products are superior. They are log specialists and will be able to answer any questions you have.
Good luck. Looking forward to some photos of your log cabin.
We love photos here.

Janemarie
Member
# Posted: 20 Nov 2018 21:33
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Quoting: Fanman
If you want to know more about wood stoves than you ever knew there was to know, check out the forums at hearth.com

Boy, no kidding! What a useful site. I love it when smart people nerd out on something I need to understand! SOOO helpful.

Janemarie
Member
# Posted: 21 Nov 2018 08:45
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Silverwaterlady: I checked out the pictures of your cabin. It is so beautiful. I could not find any of it finished, but saw the construction and your beaver totem pole. Amazing stuff, that.

silverwaterlady
Member
# Posted: 21 Nov 2018 15:42
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Janemarie, I just posted more photos.
Cabin was built in 2006 and we've been working on getting it done.
That was hard to do when we were working.
We're retired now so things are moving faster. Should be done with everything by 2020.

AKfisher
Member
# Posted: 21 Nov 2018 18:30
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Janemarie

Here are my thoughts... I would insulate the floor with either Blue board foam (ridged foam) or spray foam. If you can afford spray foam then I would go that route. The floor boards will leak cold air all the time being up on piers and having no insulation or vapor barrier.

I would inspect the ceiling/roof and see if there is any insulation. Is it a cathedral ceiling with exposed rafters? If so it could have ridged foam under the roofing tin or shingles. If no insulation and it has exposed rafters you could insert batts and then sheet it.

As for the walls that are just wood... Leave it alone! That is the beauty of a log cabin! Depending on how thick your logs are you still get an R-value of insulation. I am in the process of building a cabin and my logs are 8" thick giving me approximately R-10. I will be wiping a coat of linseed oil on my interior walls and haven't decided yet for the exterior. Most likely an oil based transparent product.

As for heating: I have a Osburn 1100 wood stove, the stove pipe is double walled but is vented. It is vented at the bottom and top of each section which in turn gives off heat like it was a single wall pipe. The stove should be plenty to keep the cabin cozy at 0 degrees.

Our place is 16'x24' with a cover/loft porch.
Cabin
Cabin
Insulation
Insulation
Stove
Stove


Janemarie
Member
# Posted: 21 Nov 2018 18:44
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What a gorgeous cabin. I do plan to leave the inside walls as they are. Even the ceiling is wood and it is beautiful. The logs are very rough and not polished. Some of the cuts are a bit artless, but this is the challenge of not building it myself (which given that my skill set kind of ends at lasagna and such is kind of what I get). I posted a few pics over on the pictures forum

AKfisher
Member
# Posted: 21 Nov 2018 18:50 - Edited by: AKfisher
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I just looked at the pictures. You should post them here as well. It will give anyone that may have advice a better idea.

Now that I have seen them, I would only insulate the floor with spray foam.

The exterior looks to be dirty/dusty. Or it could be some surface mold.

Why isn't the stove up to code? It appears to be a Timberline wood stove with a 8" pipe. Those stoves are heavy and burn well.

Janemarie
Member
# Posted: 23 Nov 2018 12:45 - Edited by: Janemarie
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Quoting: AKfisher
Why isn't the stove up to code? It appears to be a Timberline wood stove with a 8" pipe. Those stoves are heavy and burn well.


My insurance company said they will not give me insurance with that stove as it is out of date. It does burn well.. Given that I was able to use a piece of land I inherited to get this cabin, I don't have any actual cash in it so my idea was to use a small nest egg to buy an up to date stove and not have any more fights with the building dept and the insurance company. Given that there is no paperwork on this stove, they won't guarantee the clearances. (I seem to have a penchant for fighting with building departments.).
Do you think that exterior is redeemable with a cleaning and a staining? I personally like the look of a dark stained cabin on the exterior. Curious how I can better clean the interior walls. I do own a steam cleaner and this place has electric. I wondered about just giving it a blast of steam in the spring when it is warmer. I will post the pictures here. Thank you for being so kind and offering advice.
front porch
front porch
cabin from above
cabin from above
cabin loft walls
cabin loft walls
cabin loft
cabin loft


Janemarie
Member
# Posted: 23 Nov 2018 13:06 - Edited by: Janemarie
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A few more photos. These photos are all of the cabin before I own it. I am kind of a minimalist so this will be much more sparsely decorated. I may also remove the upper cabinets in the kitchen and just put up simple shelving to make the room a bit bigger feeling.
the kitchen (before I own it)
the kitchen (before I own it)
view of cabin from entry
view of cabin from entry


Bridge Boy
Member
# Posted: 23 Nov 2018 22:29
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Janemarie,

My camp is located on Tug Hill. When I bought our camp it had no insulation in floor. My son and I used fiberglass roll insulation.
We used 5/8 sheathing after insulation was in place using screws to fasten sheathing. All was square so no gaps. So far very good. Big difference. Roxul they say would be better. As other forum members have said spray on insulation would be best.

As Fanman stated hearth.com has a lot of helpful people. Might even find out some information about your present woodstove or advice on a new purchase.

When it comes to insurance I had estimates from more than one company. Then looked at coverage and found that they do sometimes have different requirements to write a policy on your property.

Welcome and good luck.

Janemarie
Member
# Posted: 25 Nov 2018 22:57
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Quoting: Bridge Boy
Welcome and good luck


Thank you! Glad to meet a fellow New Yorker here (though I am really a Montana transplant).

Malamute
Member
# Posted: 26 Nov 2018 20:27 - Edited by: Malamute
Reply 


Ive done fiberglass batts under the floor with 1/2" OSB nailed up under the floor joists, it made a huge difference. I also skirted under the walls to the ground which also helps.

The walls are fine as is. Ive lived in log cabins most of the past 30 years and love my little cabins. Log has some R value, and some thermal mass. Whatever the primary factor at play, I have no real issue keeping small cabins warm at zero to 20 below. My ceiling is pretty low though, so whatever warmth there is is in the living space, not up 10 feet above me.

The floor and ceiling do need help to be more practical. One relatively simple way to insulate the roof is remove the roofing metal (it has a metal roof?), and use foam board over the sheathing boards, then sheet over the insulation board with OSB or plywood and screw the metal back on. It will keep the inside looking good and be fairly simple. Check prices for SIP panels, they may work in the same way and save time sheeting over the foam board. The SIP panels would just need to be secured with long screws into whatever logs or beams are there, then screw the roof metal back over it with gable trim to cover the edges.

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