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chrisser
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2012 13:57
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My wife's aunt gave us a book on shed building. "Sheds The Do-It-Yourself Guide for Backyard Builders" by David Stiles
In it they talk about a post and skirt foundation, using cement board for the skirting, partially buried.
Seems to be a neat idea and I haven't found it discussed anywhere.
I don't think it serves a structural purpose, but it keeps the critters out and prevents the wind from blowing under the shed. I think it would work well for a cabin.
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Montanan
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2012 15:10
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I like the idea! We are on cement piers and need skirting (only plywood up now.) Have you calculated the cost?
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chrisser
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2012 15:15
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I have not calculated the cost.
Our property is remote and inaccessible until spring.
I'm thinking of using them under our camper though, so the critters don't nest below it and it stays a bit warmer.
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Montanan
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2012 15:17
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Yeah- it seems like it would be a good long-term option, assuming it's not cost prohibitive. Thanks for the suggestion.
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2012 15:59
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Quoting: Montanan I like the idea
x 2!!!!
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2012 16:33 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Cement fiber board, at least the Hardie brand, is water resistant not waterproof. If buried in the ground it will absorb moisture through that edge and eventually delaminate. If it freezes when moist that will hasten delamination. Hardie installation instructions state a minimum 2" clearance between the lower edge of the hardie product and a deck, for example.
If kept off the ground and painted it lasts darn near forever. I left a piece sitting with one edge on the ground to see what would happen. It sat through a summer and winter. The following spring it shows signs of separation for a distance of an inch or so up from the bottom edge. I could break it off with my fingers.
There is a cement product called Wonerboard that is cement with fiberglass layered over the sides and edges. It is not damaged by water. However, it can absorb water and if frozen will have problems too.
There are a lot of DIY books on construction that display bad ideas.
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Montanan
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2012 19:22
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Thanks MtnDon. I assumed it would be more resistant to the elements. We've been trying to figure out a durable material for our skirting. We plan to conceal whatever we use with rocks from the property (probably just arranged/stacked, rather than actually building a wall.) What would you recommend that would last a long time, not be compromised by temperature change/moisture, be strong enough to have large rocks leaning against it, and be reasonably priced? What a list of requirements, eh? Oh yeah- and be critter-resistant?
Thanks in advance!
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Just
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2012 20:28
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what about some sidewalk slabs standing on edge.? i once did one with 1x6 pt but was not happy with it ..still to drafty ..
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2012 20:55
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We were originally planned on leaving the underside open. The floor is insulated and the joist underside sheeted in plywood. However since last years nearby big wildfire and talking with many fire fighter crews and chiefs we decided to skirt. Even though the surrounding ground is free from most vegetation the fire fighters explained the danger could be from firebrands blowing in if a fire came through or close. Being at the top of a ridge there could possibly be quite a wind coming up the slope.
We decided to go with metal roofing panels; ribbing running vertical. I went around the perimeter measuring the varying vertical distances required. The roofing company cut the panels to my specs. I'll be framing with PT lumber with the bottom rail (call this the bottom "plate") being a 2x4 on edge following the contour of the ground. The top plate will be screwed to the underside of the floor framing. Vertical "studs" inserted between the upper and bottom 2x4 at spacing appropriate to the metal panels. One or two on each long side will be hinged for access. Vent screening and expanded steel will be used for ventilation.
I actually was happy with it open as the floor was insulated well enough. But I can see the advantage to keeping the underside clean and clear of debris. The winds did blow a certain amount of pine needles and leaves underneath and it was not easy to clear out.
Anyhow that's the direction we're taking.
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2012 21:13
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Quoting: MtnDon We were originally planned on leaving the underside open. The floor is insulated and the joist underside sheeted in plywood. However since last years nearby big wildfire and talking with many fire fighter crews and chiefs we decided to skirt
i had never thought about the saftey part---i wanted to leave mine open,,,,and stackstone wrap my pillars.....for the old time/vintage look..... thats good info---
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Montanan
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2012 23:50
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Thanks- the husband and I were just talking about using roofing metal. That might be the way to go.
I never thought about the safety part either. We have plumbing and electrical under there that we want to protect...and don't want to end up with any animals using the space as a den.
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Martian
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2012 23:55
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I'm using the Hardiboard siding as skirting. Its easy to cut and fit and didn't take that much to skirt the whole foundation. I screwed it to the backside of the rim-joist and dug a shallow trench for the bottom. At $37/sheet, it cost me roughly $150. I've had scrap pieces of the siding lying in front of the bee hives (Keeps the grass down) for over three years. Its still in good shape. If you use a weed-wacker, stay away from the siding or you might shatter it. I piled soil and wheat straw against mine to help insulate the crawl space and keep the drainage away from under the house. Its working so far.
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wakeslayer
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2012 15:31
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I like the idea of Wonderboard. The cement with fiberglass. The Hardiboard is more like sheetrock. I have done a bunch of tiling and always use the wonderboard type. I really need to do something to skirt my A-frame and that would be a great solution for me.
Good topic.
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Montanan
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2012 13:04
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Is Wonderboard the stuff they use in tub/shower enclosures, behind the tile or surround?
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Rifraf
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2012 13:58
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Interesting topic, ill be tackling this soon too! I was thinking of attaching treated 2x6s across my piers all around, and insulating on the inside wall with foam. Is this a bad idea ?
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justincasei812
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2012 12:24
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I am sort of dealing with this idea myself. I have skirting around the cabin but it does not go into the ground. Critters are getting in to the crawl space and the cabin this way. I need to seal the ways of them getting in the cabin but also the crawl space. I was thinking of digging a small trench and putting in quick cement, but I can see so many issues with that though. So the wonder board or something else would be a great alternative.
Good thread!!
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2012 13:27
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Quoting: Montanan Is Wonderboard the stuff they use in tub/shower enclosures,
It's not the only product used. Wonderboard is the only one that is actually waterproof though as as as I know.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2012 13:31
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Quoting: justincasei812 Critters are getting in to the crawl space and the cabin this way. I need to seal the ways of them getting in the cabin but also the crawl space.
Dig down and away from the perimeter. Use Hot dipped galvanized hardware cloth, 19 gauge if you can find it (smaller gauge numbers are thicker wire). Install an L shaped piece coming down from the underside of the cabin, into the earth about 6-9 inches. Have the leg of the L extend outward, horizontal, away from the structure for 12 inches. Rodents, what not will dig down at the wall base and they aren't smart enough to consider backing away from the wall when they encounter the horizontal hardware cloth.
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justincasei812
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2012 16:19
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Awesome Thanks MtnDon. As soon as we have our thaw I will be a diggin fool. :)
Kevin
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demonllama
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# Posted: 19 Jul 2013 16:54
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No cement based product can be waterproof. Hardibacker is the only product that displays a plastic cube filled with water containing a square of Hardi in it to show it won't absorb water.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 19 Jul 2013 18:48 - Edited by: bldginsp
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For my pier and post sheds I stopped the metal siding 4to 6 inches above the dirt, then dug a 3 inch deep trench below it, then fitted short lengths of metal siding into the trench and screwed them to the siding with roofing screws, then back filled the trench. I then caulked the joint so water running down the walls would stay outside. These metal skirts will eventually rot and be gone, but are easy enough to replace.
I agree with Mt Don that any cementious material, be it Hardi board or wonder board, will absorb moisture from the earth and then suffer from it one way or another. It will rot if it has organic fiber in it, or split from the effect of water freezing and expanding. But, I really don't know how long the metal will last in the dirt. Ask me in five- ten years.
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Martian
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# Posted: 19 Jul 2013 19:07
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Well, I have had several pieces of scrap Hardi-Board, roughly 18"X96", laying in front of my beehives for three years. They keep the grass down from in front of the hive. There is no indication of delaminating or deteriorating in any way. My skirting is the same material, and it has dirt/straw piled against it. Its been in place for almost two years. I've been under the house in the last few weeks, and notice no problem areas at all. So far, so good. It was really easy to install, since my piers are on 8' centers. I simply screwed it to the back of the rim joist.
Tom
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 19 Jul 2013 20:24
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Tom- do you live where there is significant freezing in the winter?
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Martian
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# Posted: 19 Jul 2013 20:44
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I'd call it significant, but then I'm a wimp! It gets down to - something occasionally, and we do get snow. I'm in the Kansas Flint Hills.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 19 Jul 2013 23:28
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I think we need Underwriter's Laboratories to do extensive testing on the ability of different cementious board materials to hold up when used as skirts around the perimeter of small cabins and sheds where in direct earth contact in a wide variety of climates, temperatures, humidities, and rat urine ammonia contents. That will settle the issue for good.
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creeky
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# Posted: 21 Jul 2013 09:44
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nice to get a couple of experiences. and I do like the "sacrificial" strip idea. martian did you just stack bales underneath? I did that with the travel trailer I had ... critters didn't nest in it and it stayed golden out of the sun. I was pretty surprised.
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Martian
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# Posted: 21 Jul 2013 13:49
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Actually, creeky, I put the skirting up and piled alternating layers of straw and dirt against it. They are both good insulators, and the straw holds the soil in place. Now I have a rock border and flowers. I didn't put anything under the house, but I thought about it. I did the same thing as you when we lived in our RV through a winter.
Tom
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Sustainusfarm
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# Posted: 22 Jul 2013 23:13
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I have had the 1/2" cement board up as skirting on my cabin for 17 yrs...it is as perfect now as it was then..it is buried in the ground 2ft and I have no gutters so the rain and water collect around it all 4 seasons. It gets below zero in the winter with 3 ft of snow and summer well over 90 degrees....it even takes concrete stain well!
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evjim
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# Posted: 5 Apr 2018 17:47
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Wondering if anyboday can offer any followup after a few years time. Did you try this? Which brand and model of cement board did you use? How long/ how well have they held up? Pictures would be awesome too.
I am working on a post framed house on cement piers. I plan to just have a dirt floor using some cement tilled in with linseed oil and a tile form. I need a way to bring the walls below grade without pouring a foundation
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 8 Apr 2018 17:21
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There's also that 4'x8' plastic sheeting available in different colours.
Not fireproof.
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