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trollbridge
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2013 12:52 - Edited by: trollbridge
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I remember reading here quite a while ago that you (I think?) were experimenting with transferring hot air from your loft to your lower level via tubes and a computer fan.
How did that ever work out? It is exactly what we have talked about doing, which is why I'm curious. 
Thanks for any info you discovered. How's your granddaughter?I figure she must have arrived by now. Have you been spoiling her?!
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bobrok
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2013 13:13
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Hi tb,
I have all the parts needed but have not been there to assemble and try my idea and probably won't until spring so I'll post at that time.
Its been an emotional week. Our granddaughter was born just before midnight on Tuesday last week. On Wednesday morning my mom passed away after a very long illness and almost 9 year stay in a nursing home. My wife was too sick to travel so I had to leave her home alone to attend to things, funeral, etc. alone.
Wasn't going to post anything here but I did want to get back to you regarding your question.
bob
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2013 13:42
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Bob,
So sorry your happy news has had to share the same week as your sad news. I'm sure you are feeling exhausted and overwhelmed by such an emotional week and your wife being sick too-I hope it is nothing too serious? I'll keep you all in my prayers. You keep your chin up- that little baby is going to melt your heart over and over again, and your mother is going to have the best seat up in heaven for watching all the fun.
You take care, and thank you for the quick reply.
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naturelover66
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2013 17:49
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I was wondering about your little grandbaby too Bob.
So sorry for the loss of your mother.
Thinking of you....
Lisa
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bobrok
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# Posted: 29 Jan 2013 11:41
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Thank you very much.
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sparky1
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# Posted: 29 Jan 2013 14:40
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bobrok
so very sorry for the sadness,and Congratulations on the Grand Daughter.
sparky1 in s.va
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 17 Feb 2013 15:01
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How ya doing bobrok? Better, I hope. I know you are enjoying your new little granddaughter  We were blessed with a new grandson this past Tuesday evening. Babies are life's highlights!
I thought I would pass along what we discovered while trying to move the warm air up in the loft down to our bedroom. We used cardboard tubes and a fan on the lower end of it. It did draw air, but by the time it made it thru the tube, it was blowing out at a pretty cool temp. I'm sure the length of the tube was way longer than we needed. it was also narrower than what we would permanently use. I think adjusting these things will help, so although it seems to be a failure for now, I think it is worth more experimenting with I'll keep you posted!
Here's a picture of our quickly rigged up tubing.
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Dillio187
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2013 19:41
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I read about these somewhere too, and I have a bigger 12V fan that I salvaged out of some sort of big computer cooler or something that I want to use.
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ShabinNo5
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2013 20:35
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I wish I had an answer... We have the same issue with our Shabin. The situation was magnified this weekend. My forgiving wife and I were focused on insulating the ceiling, currently there is no insulation in the walls. With the small direct vent heater, a big buddy and occational bursts from the bullet heater, the loft was holding at 60 (as the outside temps droped to -22). Unfortunately on the mail level, where we were sleeping, the temps were closer to 25  I will be checking back frequently
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Dillio187
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2013 20:42
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the insulation will help a ton. My 16x12 is frequently close to 80 degrees (which my gf loves) with just the wood stove going.
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2013 20:43
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Oh brrrr shabin!
I think there is a way to do this...it just needs to be perfected!
You'll be happy when your insulating is done
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Sustainusfarm
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2013 21:05
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Someone makes these but I only saw them for a regular height ceiling ....I would think it is going to be hard to PULL/FORCE warm air downward without a strong fan....how about an inline duct fan???
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Dillio187
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# Posted: 19 Feb 2013 00:02
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I bet some sort of inline fan like you propose would work well. Squirrel cage type?
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skootamattyschm idty
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# Posted: 19 Feb 2013 07:32
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I saw the same thing you were talking about at the start of the thread. Google Heatstick and you will see the information. I made three of these for my cabin this fall. I used 3" computer fans that run off my battery. I mounted these with a switch inside a wooden box and then used 3" abs piping to run up through the loft floor to the peak in the ceiling. I found that the air being blown out was warmer then the room temperature on the main level. What I also found is that it was a lot more comfortable in the loft for sleeping as that hot air from the wood stove was circulated down so it helped to draw that super hot air out of the loft. I also used the heatsticks to help warm up my back room which traditionally does not get a lot of heat from the wood stove. I noticed a significant difference in that back room as far as how warm it was. The three fans ran all night off my battery with little draw.
I have only made it up to the cabin this winter but when I was there it was -22 celcius outside. I am hoping to use these in the summer as well to see if it pulls some of the hot humid air down too keep the loft more comfortable.
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 19 Feb 2013 13:07 - Edited by: trollbridge
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Quoting: skootamattyschm idty Google Heatstick and you will see the information.
all I see is stuff for brewing beer at home  I'll have to keep searching
We used a fan that goes into duct work-must be what you were talking about Sustainus and Dillio. We have 2 ceiling fans that will keep the loft cooler, but our bedroom is on the main floor and since it is somewhat closed off it does get chillier in there. I think this will be a good solution once we get it figured out. It's good to hear that it will work like skoot said.
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skootamattaschmidty
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# Posted: 20 Feb 2013 08:38
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Here is the link to the heatstick sight I used. http://www.heatstick.com/_Heat%20StkBluBox.htm
I'll try to find some pics and post them when I get a chance. They heatstick sight used blue electrical boxes to mount the fans in. I made boxes out of 3/4 inch pine I had laying around. The fans I got at a computer store for about $5 each. They came with the silicone mounting pins. The switches were from canadian Tire and were only a couple dollars each as well. I glued an ABS coupler into the top of the box and then placed my ABS duct into that up to the ceiling. I cover the top of the ceiling with a computer fan wire cover to keep critters etc out of it.
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skootamattaschmidty
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# Posted: 20 Feb 2013 08:45
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Here are some pics. The quality isn't the greatest and they were taken after I made them at home. I do not have any as of yet of them installed. The piece at the bottom is a 90 degree PVC elbow. It fits in the bottom hole and I held it in place with two cotter pins. This allows me the change direction of the air.
IMG006142012102717.jpg
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skootamattaschmidty
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# Posted: 20 Feb 2013 08:49
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For troll bridge our back room was isolated from the main room where the woodstove is. I found information on the heatstick sight that suggested cutting a hole in the wall as close to the ceiling as possible and then using a heatstick on the opposite wall to help draw that warm air into that room. My cabin is a log cabin and the back rom was an addition. I did as suggested and cut a hole through the wall approximately 8"x20". It made a huge difference in the back room and you could literally feel the warm air being drawn through the opening into that room. Hope this helps.
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 20 Feb 2013 09:56
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Skoot,
Thank you for the info.
We have talked about cutting a hole out between rooms but I wasn't sure if it would make much difference. Reading what shabin and you said makes me wonder if we wouldn't be better off cutting a vent hole into the bedroom and then instead of trying to draw the heat down from the loft thru the heat stick, suck the cooler air out and up to the loft. That would create the draw needed to "suck" the warmer air from the living room into the bedroom, right?
Clever design idea, skoot. I like the fact that you can change the direction of the airflow.
Do you think it makes much difference whether the cool air is being pulled thru or pushed thru the heat stick?
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ShabinNo5
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# Posted: 20 Feb 2013 22:06
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trollbridge,
I was thinking about the leap of faith involved with cutting a hole in your interior wall. Do you have any scrap OSB that would be the size of your bedroom door? You could then temporary replace your door with the OSB, cutting a hole in the OSB and testing the result.
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skootamattaschmidty
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# Posted: 21 Feb 2013 06:14
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The heat stick I have in the back room is on the opposite wall from where I cut the vent hole. That heat stick only goes as far as the ceiling in that room less about 2 inches of space. It does not go all the way up to the loft. The fan in that heat stick draws air off the ceiling and in so doing, it creates a draft causing the warm air trapped at the ceiling in the main room to be drawn through the vent hole cut in the wall close to the ceiling. You can cover the hole in the wall with a nice vent plate so it looks finished.
As far as putting a hole in the floor and using a fan to suck the cold air up into the loft, I agree that it would create a draft allowing warm air to be drawn into that room through a vent hole. I am absolutely no expert but I do not think that would be as efficient. My thoughts would be that hot air rises and you would ultimately draw warm air up to the loft as well.
The premise of the heat stick close to the ceiling is to force that warm air down off the ceiling, back to floor level where it will mix with the cooler air, rise again, only to be drawn back down. Ultimately the air in the room warms faster and you can use less heat. Again I am no expert and this is information I gleaned from the heat stick web site and found it helped my situation.
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 22 Feb 2013 13:34 - Edited by: trollbridge
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Quoting: skootamattaschmidty The fan in that heat stick draws air off the ceiling and in so doing, it creates a draft causing the warm air trapped at the ceiling in the main room to be drawn through the vent hole cut in the wall close to the ceiling.
In our main room the ceiling is open to the loft though-it's like 20 some feet tall-so if we cut a vent hole in our bedroom wall it would only be catching the air in the middle of the space, but that is still warmer than the bedroom since the wood stove is in that room. Any thoughts on that?
Also, will it matter that the bedroom is small with a 4 foot door opening? Think there would still be enough draw thru the vent opening? Like you said Shabin-I don't want to cut an opening if it won't make much difference. Also not sure if it makes much sense to have the doors shut to create a draw...it's a bonus to still have heat with them shut, but I don't want to have to keep them shut most the time just to create a draw. know what I mean?
I get how the heat stick works. Their website explained it very nicely, didn't it? What is throwing me off is the vaulted ceiling.
I really appreciate your thoughts on this, and skoot, your actual experience helps a lot.
open to loft
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bedroom under loft-4 foot door width
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skootamattaschmidty
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# Posted: 22 Feb 2013 16:35
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I guess my situation is somewhat different from yours. My cabin is approximately 14x22. It is a vaulted ceiling with a loft. The loft covers a little less than half the area. The remaining area is open to the vaulted ceiling similar to your place. The half of the floor space that is covered by the loft is where we have our dining table and kitchen area and the loft acts as a ceiling in that area. A lot of heat from the woodstove and the cooking area does get trapped and sits under that ceiling. My back room was initially a screened in room and not part of the cottage living area. I closed that room in and made it my bathroom area with an old clawfoot tub/shower and vanity on one side and my propane fridge and a pantry is on the other side of the room. Although I insulated it well, we found that the heat from the wood stove at the front of the cottage did not make it to the back room and when it was very cold out, that room remained very cold and the cold could be felt as a draft through the doorway when we sat around the table making the main room feel uncomfortable. Where I cut my vent hole on the back wall, it was close to the ceiling over the kitchen area where that hot air accumulated. The heatstick on the opposite wall helps to draw that heat through that vent hole into that room. I guess I did not mention this prior and I do apologize, I did place two heat sticks in that room. One only to the height of the ceiling in the back room to help draw heat through the vent opening and the other through the ceiling of the back room to the peak of the vaulted ceiling upstairs. This does draw warmer air down into that room from the loft as well. The majority of the warm air is through that vent hole though.
This is a long winded response and I apologize for that, just trying to explain my set up and why it seems to work for me. I guess a picture is worth a thousand words and I will try to find some over the weekend and post them.
To answer your question, your heat is going straight up to the vaulted ceiling, bypassing your room. A vent hole in the wall would draw some warm air into the room, but I suspect I am having good results because of the ceiling area trapping the warm air at the height of the vent opening.
I do feel, based on my results, that a heatstick along the inside wall of your room, (wall closest to the open area), through the ceiling, to the peak of the loft will help draw heat into your bedroom area.
Another suggestion may be to cut a vent opening in your bedroom wall and wire a 3" computer fan inside that opening to draw heat into the room. Of course I do not know what your setup is as far as 12 volt power etc and how easy that would be for you.
Again I am no expert at all, just found it worked well for me and if I can share my experience to help you then all the better.
I have attached 2 pics that I found on my blackberry, I know the quality isn't the greatest. The one shows the wood stove and the other shows the back wall with the ceiling. When I closed in the back room, the door that can be seen in the picture was removed and left as an open doorway. Again when I get home I will try and find some pictures I took of the heatsticks installed. Hope this helps.
wood stove in front part
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loft over kitchen area
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 22 Feb 2013 19:04
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Thank you so much for the time you are taking to try and help me!
I love your log cabin btw...just what I picture a northern cabin to look like. I also love the way you display your Canadian flag that I recall seeing in another picture of your place 
You are correct that in our place the warm air goes directly up to the vaulted ceiling and loft. It doesn't even get trapped under the kitchen or dining room ceiling which also have loft above them but are more open than our bedroom. That probably has to do with the size of our place(24x26) in ratio to the size of our stove. Anyway, it's not that the bedroom is a lot cooler, it's just that I figure why not try to circulate that warm air around. The ceiling fans help a ton to move the air, but I think more can be done fairly easily and cheaply. I like the idea of putting the fan right in the wall cavity-not sure how difficult it might be to wire but I think we can manage it. Then just put a vent
cover on each side and wahlaa 
Hmm, now I'm wondering about just putting a few more fans directly in the floor/ceiling space in a few more strategically placed areas-that would be out of the way, but yet fairly easy to wire  If one is good, more are better, right???!? 
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skootamattaschmidty
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# Posted: 23 Feb 2013 17:28
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I like your idea of the fans and a vent cover on each side. I think that will help warm your bedroom a lot. Here are a couple more pictures I found.
I love having the Canadian flag flying out there! I always say Americans are way more patriotic thanus Canadians and we need to do more to show our patriotism!
in bathroom
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one to ceiling, one through to peak
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September__January_.jpg
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skootamattaschmidty
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# Posted: 23 Feb 2013 17:38
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Oops. attached two of the same photo. Here is the other. I guess I dont have pic of the hole I cut in the back wall.
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 23 Feb 2013 21:22
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Quoting: skootamattaschmidty I love having the Canadian flag flying out there!
I like the design of the Canadian flag. It's cool!
Thanks for posting the pictures. It does help to visualize it. I'm excited to get back to our cabin and experiment
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Trapper
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2013 22:33
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Has anyone tested these heat sticks? I understand the concept but do they equalize the temperature. My goal is to try and cool down the loft area, if this is accomplished by reheating the floor area, that is a bonus.
I am curious if anyone has numbers to what the heat temp was in the loft before it was turned on and after.
Thank you for any info you can provide.
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