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Scott G
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# Posted: 23 Oct 2014 21:32 - Edited by: Scott G
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Hi
Building a storage shed... and at the point where i need to consider wiring. I have a nephew licensed electrician that can help.
Just wanting to know what i need to consider, in the walls, to wire for a basic system? Planning to also install a genny hookup.
My assumptions are:
Plan your wiring
Wire, per normal for a 115v system
Install a small breaker panel for future panel input, invertor will be next in this chain, when i get one. Power from inverter will feed into another panel that runs wiring thru the...storage shed.
Install proper plug for genny input...
Consider a 12v dc plug...s
But getting the option to switch from solor to genny, feed genny into batteries, is beyond me.
I have a princess auto 3000w generator. Looking at a 400w ish system, 1000w sine invertor, couple of mid range batteries, decent controller sized system. Not picking out components, budgeting $2500 ish, but in steps...read cash in hand.
Currently have a coleman 35w panel, 7a controller. Thats it.
Our 'lectric needs will be low. Oil lamps, woodcook stove...for heating the snow off our stored stuff..., propane burners, solar laterns, solar motion lamps (P.A.)
A big thank you and handshake in advance.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 23 Oct 2014 22:29 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: Scott Girvan But getting the option to switch from solor to genny, feed genny into batteries, is beyond me.
Transfer switch. They look like a box, a service panel sort of thing. Some are manual and some are automatic. Manual is pretty much self explanatory, you throw a switch with a lever handle and change incoming power from generator to inverter or vice versa. From the transfer switch the power then goes to the service panel... Automatic ones have relays that will trip after power from the generator is applied to the switch. Then when the generator is shut down it transfers back to the inverter. The switches switch both the hot and the neutral lines simultaneously.
Before buying any more solar equipment draw up a list of your AC and DC power needs. The watts for any/all devices and the time each would be used on an average day. Do that for DC and for AC and then you stand a much better chance of buying the proper sized equipment from PV to inverter and everything in between.
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Scott G
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2014 07:18
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Thanks MtnDon,
I appreciate the info. Transfer switch, perfect. I will also need a Generator Power Inlet Box, according to further Googling.
I will make the list for sure and report back with it.
In the meantime I still need to figure out my rough in requirements for receptacles, light and switches - before we button up walls. Our place is small and therefore I won't need to run much. I don't anticipate purchasing a poroper solar system for some time but want to be sure I don't make any stupid mistakes/omissions 'in the walls' before I board everything up.
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Scott G
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# Posted: 7 Nov 2014 12:00 - Edited by: Scott G
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So me and the Mrs. have been talking about our needs. Down the road when we move permanently to an off-grid situation our needs will increase but that's several years down the road.
For the time being, while our cabin is a weekender, we only need to:
Charge an iphone
Charge an ipad
Run a cell signal booster - the ac adapter on this is 2a @ 5v
Run a small radio
Run 2-3 small CFL bulbs in lamps
Again we have the 3300W Generator but I don't want to run that just to charge up stuff. I have the Coleman 35W panel and 7a controller. I have a NAPA car battery that's currently not being used, no inverter.
Any recommendations for a simple, inexpensive solution? Crappy Tire has their mod-sine inverters on sale? Just looking for round out my lil redneck system to achieve above.
Thank you.
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skootamattaschmidty
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# Posted: 7 Nov 2014 12:12
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I am by no means an expert on any of this stuff but if you want to charge sensitive electronics like iPad's etc I recommend a pure sine inverter as opposed to the modified sine wage. Ctc usually puts their 1000 watt model on sale if you are in no rush. I know there are better inverters on the market but their 1000 watt inverter should suit you fine for your needs at this time. I have been using the Mastercraft 1000 watt pure sign inverter for 3 years now with no issues. My needs are similar to yours. I use it to charge phones, iPads, camera batteries, drill batteries etc and to run a few lights. It comes with a remote that I installed in my loft if I want to turn it off at night.
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Scott G
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# Posted: 7 Nov 2014 12:23 - Edited by: Scott G
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Cool. Thanks man. I agree. Better to pay a bit more for pure sine.
Found this one on Amazon
Sunforce 11240 1000 Watt Pure Sine Wave Inverter
$230
I'll see what CanTire has as well, seeing I can pick that up local, although Amazon ships fast.
edit: Just checked online and the MotoMaster 1000W Pure Sine Wave Inverter w/ Remote Control is listed at $299.
*I'll need a couple deep cycle batteries as well I'm sure.
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creeky
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# Posted: 8 Nov 2014 09:47
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You might look at the morningstar 300. It will run everything you have and more. And it doesn't have the overhead (amps used while idle) that the sunforce has. From reviews, it appears more reliable.
The sunforce is pretty good tho. I used one for a few years. It took a beatin'.
I prefer LED lights to cfl. They turn on when they are cold. And a small system like you have you could forgo the oil lamps and just use regular fixtures and lamps. eh .02.
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Scott G
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# Posted: 8 Nov 2014 13:40
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Thanks creeky. I appreciate the advice.
If I were to 'try' and forgo the oil lamps I would be choosing to forgo pretty much anything that has to do with the Mrs. if you know what I'm saying.
The oil will burn.
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 9 Nov 2014 15:13
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lol.
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Scott G
Member
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2014 19:21 - Edited by: Scott G
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Another question to add to the list: is having a transfer switch enough to allow my generator to backfeed and charge the battery bank on long term cloudy days?
Im not adding solar right away, going to use the generator to charge devices for the short term. I do want to be proactive though. We are very close, a week away from wiring our cabin and i want to get it right in the walls.
So far the plan is a genny receptacle, transfer switch and small panel, 30 or 60 amp. Then ill be running 6 110 plug boxes from that. All lighting will be lamps, both electric and oil.
I do want to be able to add solar and tie it into this system with the ability to charge batteries with the generator.
Thanks for any heads up.
After a bit of digging i see that using a battery charger while running the generator will...duh.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2014 21:33
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If you are using a stand alone battery charger and not an inverter with a built in charger, you need to separate the charger AC input from the cabin AC wiring. By that I mean it would be a good idea to have an AC outlet on the generator feed side of the transfer switch. That outlet is where the battery charger AC input would be plugged in. Then when the transfer switch id moved to select AC power to the cabin from the inverter there would be no way to power the charger from the batteries. That would be a never ending dwindling circular path.
Or you could opt to always plug the battery charger only directly into the generator. But that seems like an extra task that could be avoided. I have a setup like that in out converted cargo trailer. I added an on-off switch to the charger circuit as the charger did not have one and I do not always want the batteries to charge every time the generator runs.
Hope that is clear.
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Scott G
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2014 22:23 - Edited by: Scott G
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Right. Gotcha.
So that's recommended as a fail safe ie: you forget to unplug the charger and switch back to solar therefore creating a loop.
I doubt my inverter will have a built in charger...not this system. I can simply plug the charger direct into the Gen (extension cord) - adding a switch makes sense. I simply monitor the batteries and when they need input from the generator I turn the charger on.
A couple of points to get it out of my head...
I read online (likely on here) and understand that I should only bring the batteries to 90% on the generator and let the sun do the balance 10%.
I've also been looking at the IOTA chargers over at Northern Arizona Wind & Sun - very nice. A bit out of my price range though. From what I've read I need to make sure I can dial down the amperage on a 'car battery charger' style charger so as not to overdue it when topping up the battery bank. Not sure what one of those would cost me, might be just as well off with an IOTA - we do get lots of long term (3-5) grey winter days up here in NB, Canada.
Thanks MtnDon - very appreciated.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2014 22:45
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Quoting: Scott Girvan I should only bring the batteries to 90% on the generator and let the sun do the balance 10%.
The reason for that is the last 10-15% takes a long time and is very fuel inefficient. If you want to take the time, money and gasoline once a week to get as close to 100% as you can the batteries will be better for it.
Iota is good bang for the buck, a reasonable compromise, IMO.. There are some Samlex that are better with multi stage charging. Xantrex Trucharge2 are also better with multi stage charging.
The ideal charger system in to buy an inverter with built in charger. Those have the best chargers as a rule and also are usually superior inverters. They do cost more.
Also keep in mind that the maximum charge current should be around 1/10th of the amp-hour capacity of the battery bank.
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Scott G
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2014 06:18
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Great advice, thank you MtnDon.
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