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Bigred292
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# Posted: 22 May 2016 20:44
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Newbie here- just bought cabin that is wired gor 12v and 120v
Going to start off by admitting that I know pretty much nothing about electrical. The system has 4 deep cycle batteries tied together. The previous owner would charge them by generator. Batteries are less than 1 year old.
The electrician that installed system said in the meantime I could plug a panel into any 12v socket .
I went to Harbor Freight and bought a 15w panel and plugged it into 12v wall socket.
I live 2.5 hrs away and now I'm nervous. Could this harm the system?
Is it dangerous?
I plan on calling electrician tomorrow and ask him- he did say it would work though
Any thoughts?
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Bigred292
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# Posted: 22 May 2016 20:48
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This is the panel
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bldginsp
Member
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# Posted: 22 May 2016 21:28
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Hmm... Need a little info here.
Is the system set up to provide both 12v and 120v power to the cabin? Is there an inverter?
What is that panel for?
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 22 May 2016 22:19
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IT WILL BE FINE for a few weeks . you should really have a charge controller and a volt meter in that circuit in the future .
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Bigred292
Member
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# Posted: 22 May 2016 22:19
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The panel has a Whistler inverter, couple of GFIs, breakers and fuses.
When yhe panel is closed there are 2 switches on it- an on/ off rocker and a 3 way position switch- top center is off, left is 12v and right is generator
The panel is connected to 4 deep cycle batteries.
In the cabin wherever there is a 110 outlet there is a 12 volt cig lighter socket as well.
The panel also has a digital gauge that shows voltage for 12v system.
That's really about all I know. There is a problem in the system that draws down the voltage - while taking a shower the pump stopped for an example.
The day I closed the electrician did come over- he said it could be 1 bad battery, or a couple or all of them.
I guess I have to bite the bullet and pay him to figure it out.
If anyone can think of any questions to ask please let me know
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Bigred292
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# Posted: 22 May 2016 22:25
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I believe the blue thingy in the upper right of my panel is a charge controller.
There is an indicator light that lights when system is charging from generator.
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bldginsp
Member
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# Posted: 22 May 2016 22:33
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Beyond me. Good luck, let us know what happens
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 22 May 2016 22:58
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But the charge controller is not in the circuit you have the panel running through . Have your electrician hook it in the correct circuit the next time your there , in the meantime it will help charge your batteries, not to worry.
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Bigred292
Member
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# Posted: 23 May 2016 00:24
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Ok thanks, like I said I really have very limited knowledge of electrical things.
Will the system charge with the panel plugged into wall outlet? Just curious
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 23 May 2016 08:42 - Edited by: Just
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yes it will charge .... did you turn off the inverter when you left . [its the larger blue box in the middle of the pic .] it will use all the power that panel makes on idle .
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SE Ohio
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# Posted: 23 May 2016 09:02 - Edited by: SE Ohio
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You could plug the panel into your wall outlet and charge the battery bank. Make sure you observe proper +/- orientation or you'll damage your panels.
If you could get 100% of the 15 watts the panel produces over 8 hours, you could run 15 watts worth of lighting for the same period and maintain your battery charge. I have a 12 volt compact fluorescent but that burns 15 watts. So if you are using more wattage for other things (look at TV, computer, etc) the panel only provides a drop in the bucket. For a few dollars more than the HF panel you can get a 100 watt panel off Amazon, but you'll still need a charge controller.
A good solar setup (panel/charge controller) is going to extend the life of your expensive batteries. The optimal setup depends on your power usage. If it were me, I'd wanna avoid using a generator to charge the batteries as I don't want the noise and inconvenience of having to charge up, haul gas etc. So I'd size my solar to meet all my power needs without the generator.
I run a few LED lights, a 12 volt fan, charge a phone and run a small water pump occasionally (pumping hot shower water). My 100 watt panel keeps my 2 golf cart batteries at a good charge. If I were using more wattage, I'd need more panel wattage and maybe more batteries. You may want to figure out your power needs and size panel and charge controller from there. I don't think you'll get far with the 15 watt unit and no controller.
Basic solar is a frequent topic here, you might benefit from reading a few older threads. One such is http://www.small-cabin.com/forum/3_6438_0.html#msg94825 Other folks might suggest another thread or two?
At the end of the day, basic solar is something most folks can master with a little reading and, unfortunately, a little more capital investment.
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Bigred292
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# Posted: 23 May 2016 10:28
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Thanks for the replies- beginning to get a grasp on it.
I agree completely about the panels, I had a HF 15 minutes away so figure I'd use it until I got something better. I hope to get up there every week and a half so my thought was that it was better than nothing.
As far as shutting the inverter off there is a red rocker switch that must be off when not using. I'm assuming that shuts off the inverter.When the switch is turned on a cooling fan comes on.
The electrician said he had someone that does solar work. Thought this was going to be difficult but maybe not. I just have no idea what the specs are for all of the bulbs in the house.
I would rather do it myself obviously. the cabin has interior as well as exterior 12v lights. Obviously they all won't be in use at the same time.
I think my main plan is to install panel(s) that would power lights in house, 12v ceiling fan and water pump(Shurflo) for shower and sink.
I would also like to power a pump that pulls water from nearby stream .
Right now there is a 55 gallon plastic drum that feeds cabin. I would like to bury a 200-300 gallon tank and draw from that.
I don't mind using the genny to fill that up though.
Mainly going to be using it myself. I have a wife and 3 kids so we'll all be there at times.
I plan on putting a couple of propane lights in too.
Quick check of my local CL has several solar panels for sale, new and used. I would buy one if I knew it was large enough and would work. Some are 100w some are 200w
I'll keep reading and learning more
Thanks again
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ugotDave
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# Posted: 24 May 2016 10:11
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This free e-book is worth your time to read, it set me straight on many solar issues.
http://www.energyscienceforum.com/showthread.php?t=1779
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smilie59
Member
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# Posted: 24 May 2016 21:21
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To ugotDave, thank you for the link for the free-ebook. Only read two pages so far and it sounds basic but clear for us newbies.
smilie59
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ILFE
Member
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# Posted: 26 May 2016 12:58
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smilie59
Here are a lot more to look at, if you want to spend the time:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByOkSoAqLKP8ZzlPY1Y5TzlSZTQ (PDFs on my Google Drive account)
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Bigred292
Member
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# Posted: 26 May 2016 18:22
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Thanks for the info- the more the better!
I spoke to the electrician that did the work in cabin- I'm meeting him Tuesday next week to go through system. He does work with a solar guy- solar guy has "blemished " panels available at 50% off
Electrician told him what I wanted - weekend use mostly with number of lights I have,etc- I am waiting for exact specs but he said panel, wire, connectors and charge controller for around $475
Once again, I don't have any product info. Does that sound like a decent price?
Blemished panel was $200
Electrician said he would show me what to do as far as hookup
Sound about right or on the high end?
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ILFE
Member
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# Posted: 26 May 2016 21:23
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Bigred292
Hard to say.
What sized panel?
What controller?
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Bigred292
Member
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# Posted: 27 May 2016 18:14
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The panel is a 285 watt panel
Not sure of controller brand.
Electrician says the guy doesn't cut corners.
60 ft of wire and all connectors
$375
Panel has 25 year warranty
I'm going for it
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 27 May 2016 18:24
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Not enough to run a shaker, but a good choice . you have a good looking panel, should be more than adequate .
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Bigred292
Member
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2016 22:28
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Just an update on electric system - went to the cabin yesterday at met electrician. I wound up getting the parts through him. I got a 285 watt panel, 100 ft of wire with connections and a charger controller.
I put panel on porch roof. I didn't permanently mount it yet, just in case I find a better spot. Ran wires from solar panel to elec panel.
We did a load test on all 4 batteries (installed 4/15)
2 of them completely dead.
2 of them close to death.
He recommended we try 2 batteries - he felt 4 was too many.
If more are needed they can be added easily. Got 2 today and electrician camel back today and hooked everything up.
Everything looked good. Unfortunately had to head home shortly after work was done so couldn't enjoy it tonight.
$375 solar parts, $180 batteries, $200 labor
Hopefully this will do it.
One question - about how many hours of sun are needed to maintain charge? I know the more the better but what is a reasonable amount?
Where I have it now is perfect because it really can't be seen at all. I'm worried about it being stolen. I do worry about vandalism and theft
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jun 2016 13:57
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That panel and batteries should produce 1200 watts of usable power a day ' ON AVERAGE ' a led light bulb will burn 10 watts per hour, a small flat screen TV 100 watts an hour , cell phone charger 20 watts an hour . you do the math!! I think you have a very good system for a small cabin at a very good price ..properly cared for should last 5 years with no problems ..
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Bigred292
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# Posted: 2 Jun 2016 15:25
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Just -
Thanks for your reply. I didn't think the cost was that bad too. I would've been scratching my head for days on end. It's done now.
Added acid to other 2 batteries- charging now, we'll see later on.
The trouble I have is I have no idea what size bulbs I have. 16 different bulbs if my count is right. As far as needs for 12v, it's lights, ceiling fan, shurflo pump and.cell charger.
Next time I go up I will have to get all info on devices that are 12v
Question - if I can save one of these batteries should I hook it back up for a total of 3?
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Bigred292
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jun 2016 15:27
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Also what needs to be done as far as maintenance on a solar system?
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razmichael
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jun 2016 15:59 - Edited by: razmichael
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Quoting: Bigred292 Question - if I can save one of these batteries should I hook it back up for a total of 3?
I'm not sure what voltage/type batteries you have (2x12v or 2x6v) but, in general not a good idea to mix old and new even if it is easy to interconnect them. different issues depending on how they are all connected but trying to properly charge a bank with different battery types, and especially age, will at best reduce the efficiency of the system (the old drags the new ones down) or cause overcharging issues.
My system is likely very similar to what you have (I say this without knowing the specifics of the batteries) and you should fine it more than fine for weekend use and the occasional longer term. I have lights, fan, pump and the occasional 120v appliance with two 164 watt panels and two Trojan T150 6 volt batteries. I have never seen the batteries below 80% and, even with a cloudy day, they will be back up by noon or so. Enjoy the freedom.
I suggest you check the battery manufacturer site for specifics on maintenance as it depends on the type. One thing that is handy to have, especially as you get used to the system, is a voltmeter, whether wired into the system or just a handheld. Next best thing to checking the specific gravity of the water (if you can) to know the charge state.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jun 2016 16:55
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Quoting: razmichael in general not a good idea to mix old and new
I'm with raz,, get rid of the old ones!!!
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