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paulz
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# Posted: 27 Jun 2017 19:38
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220v pump install. The pump has a few feet of the three wires, what is the best way to splice and insulate to the wires running up to the control box? Is insulation (more than electrical tape) critical in submerged wiring?
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ICC
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# Posted: 27 Jun 2017 20:18 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: paulz Is insulation (more than electrical tape) critical in submerged wiring?
You bet your a-- it is! There are special splice kits made for submersible pump wiring splices. Do a search online; there are many and come in sizes for different gauge wires. They include special heat shrink tubing that have adhesive inside, as well as crimp couplers. Get the right tool for the crimps.
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paulz
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# Posted: 28 Jun 2017 10:09
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Yeah I figured so, thanks!
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1tentman
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# Posted: 28 Jun 2017 11:51
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Paulz
I have a good friend thats a plumber and has installed 100's of submersible pumps,what he does is solders the wires together then wraps them with electrical tape. Start the first wrap about 2" back on the insulation and wrap across solder connection to the insulation on other end. The second wrap start about 2" back onto the insulation from the start of the first wrap, and repeat 3rd wrap. Make sure the tape is pulled and wrapped tight. This connection will last for years and will not cause a problem. I would not put a crimp connection in the bottom of a well, solder connections will last longer. The old timers have been doing it this way for years around here with no problems. Your bigger concern is holding the wire coming up the well to the top.They make plastic spacers to put around pipe to hold the wire so it doesn't rub the pipe or the well casing.When the pump starts it will torque and if the wires are just hanging loose in well can rub against the pipe or casing and will short out over time. If you what to be really safe you could put a 4th wrap of tape on just for a piece of mind,also have seen guys tape the wire to the pipe instead of using the spacers. I have seen some pumps installed this way that have been in service for over 30 years, it will work fine.
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paulz
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# Posted: 28 Jun 2017 12:17
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That's how the old one was, except the tape was some kind of super duper rubberized electrical tape. Looked like it held up fine. Thanks for the tip on wire stabilization!
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 28 Jun 2017 18:15
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Home Depot has water proof shrink tube, put this over the tape wrap and you are good to go.
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old243
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# Posted: 29 Jun 2017 10:13
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I have used SAP (self amalgamating poly ethaline ) tape . rather than common electrical tape. It would go on over your solder or crimp joint. Apply several layers like tentman described. Stretch the tape to half its normal width as you put it on. It will form to the previous layer. You can then put a heat shrink over that, Heat till the compound oozes out the ends of the shrink. Remember to put the shrink on the wire , before making the connection. This is the method we used to repair underground , electrical cables. old243
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paulz
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# Posted: 30 Jun 2017 12:37
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Thanks again. Another rookie question: My pump has about an 1-5/8" female thread for the output, I am planning on using pvc pipe. Is there a special fitting I need to screw in and plumb to the pvc? This will not be an on demand system, I just want to fill my tank and then it will sit for months.
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Just
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# Posted: 30 Jun 2017 13:49
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I would go with one of these ether brass or nylon.And 2 under ground stanless steel clamps.
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1tentman
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# Posted: 30 Jun 2017 16:33
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How deep is your well, the 1-5/8 threaded outlet is made for 1-1/4 sch 80 threaded pvc. It comes in 20ft lenghts use brass connectors and thread together. The fitting that Just mentioned is for use with rolled black plastic pipe, make sure that the fitting is brass also. The hose clamps need to be stainless steel with a stainless steel screw. You can hang a pump on the black plastic pipe 300ft deep, although I prefer the sch 80 pipe,but it is harder to handle putting it in the well. I talk to my plumber friend today and he said solder wires and use a good quality electrical tape and you wont need anything else it will be fine. The plastic pieces that I mentioned earlier are actually rubber and they are called torque arrestors. What is the reason for this not being a on demand system ,just asking.
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paulz
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# Posted: 30 Jun 2017 16:54
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Thanks guys. Well is only 45 ft. water stands about 10ft. from ground but my cabin and tank are 125 ft. up the hill and another 150 away. Only power I have is generator for occasional use but a full (750 gallons) in my tank lasts a year.
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1tentman
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# Posted: 30 Jun 2017 17:00
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Understand, I would hang it on the black plastic pipe, with it only being that deep just tape wires to pipe and run with it. It will be easy to service if you need to pull it later. You are lucky to have water that close to surface,most of our wells around here are 300 ft plus. Make sure you use brass and stainless steel fittings. Good Luck.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 30 Jun 2017 17:21
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Just a point you need to do that many forget and later grumble about... You never ever pull on the Pipe or Wires when attempting to pull a deep well / submersible pump... Always attach a 3/8's nylon pull line to the pump itself, there should be a spot to attach it to. 45 feet deep is not bad but when the pump & pipe is full of water, you'd be surprised at what that weighs.
Use ZIP Ties to attach power line to water line.. NOT Duct Tape or other stuff - why introduce junk into your water source... The tape & glue will release leach stuff into the water - it is not meant for this.
REMEMBER TO SHOCK THE WELL when you are done ! Dump a Gallon of Pure Bleach (no scents or additives - be careful & check the label) let it sit in the well for minimum of 24 hours and flush it out... If in doubt afterwards, shock it again... There is no substitute for taking no chances, let Murphy apply his Laws somewhere else... Murphy's Laws = if something can go wrong, it will, especially the more critical it is.
I would also note that PVC is not the optimal product for this, many of them can leach stuff into the water... Use PEX ! It does not cost that much more and will put up with a lot more than any other product, is 100% potable water safe, plus the fittings etc are all being designed for PEX now so no problems with getting the bits & pieces.
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paulz
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# Posted: 2 Jul 2017 18:17
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Thanks guys, duly noted. This rubber thing that hose clamps together, what's it fer?
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 2 Jul 2017 18:34
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Torque Arrester which controls the twist when the pump starts up. Necessary item to have in there...
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paulz
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2017 23:52
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Got it, thanks again Steve. I'm just about ready to go, would have today but my generator gave me some trouble. Anyway one last thing I'm wondering: I have a feeling the existing water in my well is pretty silty at the bottom from sitting for the last year. Is that bad for the pump (it's a Gould, long stainless thing)? There's a screen around the middle but it's very course, not going to catch silty water. Do I drop the pump all the way to the bottom?
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 6 Jul 2017 01:28
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Drop the pump all the way to the bottom only so that you know where that is. Then pull it up several feet. Silt shouldn't hurt the pump if it is well mixed with water. It might take a bit to get it to run clear. Sand or gravel can wreak havoc with the pump though.
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paulz
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# Posted: 7 Jul 2017 15:51
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Thanks Rick! Success! I just test pumped water to my tank. Now I need to shock the well, bleach won't hurt the pump I assume. Can I pump with 200ft of head continuously to fill my tank or do I need to rest the pump?
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 7 Jul 2017 16:56
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I'd mix the bleach with some water before dumping it down the well. Straight bleach can damage stainless steel if in contact with it too long.
Kind of like a car engine, starting the pump is much more wear and tear than running at a steady state. Unless the pumping causes the well to run dry, keep the pump going until the tank is full.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 7 Jul 2017 17:09
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A submersible well is self cooling as long as it is in the water, it should have am auto shutdown if dry. The retail chlorine will dilute in the water and won't harm the pump... As your well is only 45 feet deep, 1 gallon jug is plenty enough and mixing it with water before dumping it is a good idea.
If you pumped into your holding tank, you should drain that out and then fill it with the shocked water, then drain & refill again. Damn the bacteria etc...
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paulz
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# Posted: 7 Jul 2017 17:32
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Thanks guys. So the plot now thickens.. On another well thread I had some time ago I was dealing with silty black water in this well. Suspecting I might have a leak in the casing, I put 6" solid corrugated plastic pipe all the way to the bottom, shoved it in as far as I could and cut it off with 2 feet sticking out. Then put the pump in a couple feet from the bottom. Now I've pumped out 200 gallons and the water is still silty black. Disheartened, gave the plastic pipe a shove and it went down a couple feet, to just below the top of the casing! I'm guessing, after sitting for 50 years, the bottom of the well is filled with silt. Going to try pumping more water now.
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paulz
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# Posted: 7 Jul 2017 17:51
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Thanks guys. So the plot now thickens.. On another well thread I had some time ago I was dealing with silty black water in this well. Suspecting I might have a leak in the casing, I put 6" solid corrugated plastic pipe all the way to the bottom, shoved it in as far as I could and cut it off with 2 feet sticking out. Then put the pump in a couple feet from the bottom. Now I've pumped out 200 gallons and the water is still silty black. Disheartened, gave the plastic pipe a shove and it went down a couple feet, to just below the top of the casing! I'm guessing, after sitting for 50 years, the bottom of the well is filled with silt. Going to try pumping more water now.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 7 Jul 2017 18:15
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I thought I heard some severe Sailor Talk on the breeze, guess I know where it came from. Damn, sorry to hear about that... Kind of wondering if that silt has been building up and there is a lot of it in the bottom that will just keep mixing in...
Maybe a flush, fill, reflush, fill a dozen times and use a weighted measure line and see if your gaining depth in the well bore. If it starts dropping, then maybe your flushing out silt... eventually you may be able to clear the loose silt BUT it's coming from somewhere so not likely the particles will ever go away. Don't flush that stuff through your water tank, just dump it away from your well, downslope.
Alternatives ... not there yet are we ? let's hope not.
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1tentman
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# Posted: 7 Jul 2017 18:41
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paulz
My suggestion to you is get the corrugated pipe out of the well while you can still get hold of it. It is doing just what you want right now, helping pull the silt out of the well. You stated that the pipe has lowered to the top of the casing and as you pump it more silt will come out and the pipe will go down more. The only way water can get to the pump is up the bottom of the pipe. You really dont know for sure how deep your well is, as you pump the silt out the pipe will keep going down. when the pipe stops moving you might think you have succeeded,but when you come back in 6 months and turn pump back on you may not have any water, because the silt has set up around the bottom of the pipe and might not allow water to come in. Then the pipe is 20 ft in the well and you may not be able to retrieve it. Just something to think about. It would of been better if you had not cut it off you would of had something to pull it with.
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paulz
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# Posted: 7 Jul 2017 20:36
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Thanks guys. I'm done for the day. Pumped another couple hundred gallons, still dark, see photo. The corrugated pipe is now 2 feet below instead of 2 feet above, so yes I'd better pull it out now, that's not helping. Other than that I guess just keep pumping and see if the bottom keeps dropping.
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paulz
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# Posted: 7 Jul 2017 20:36
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Photo
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 7 Jul 2017 20:53
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Ugh, what a pic that is, good use for that old head though. Good idea using the barrel to figure your volumes too... Good Luck and hopefully it won't take much to clear.
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paulz
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# Posted: 8 Jul 2017 16:32
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This morning I pulled the pump and plastic pipe out of the well. Then dropped in a 110v submersible sump pump all the way to rock, er silt, bottom. Pumped for about 2 hours and the water began clearing. Lifted and reset on bottom, water black again as in photo. Lifted pump 3 feet, water clears up noticably but still merky in test container. Guess I'll just keep gping.
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ILFE
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# Posted: 9 Jul 2017 08:32
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Quoting: paulz 220v pump install. The pump has a few feet of the three wires, what is the best way to splice and insulate to the wires running up to the control box? Is insulation (more than electrical tape) critical in submerged wiring?
These are what I had shipped to us, for our well installation:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002JGET5K/
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001B1AP3O/
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paulz
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# Posted: 12 Jul 2017 14:03
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I'm getting pretty clear water, still pumping from the very bottom with a sump pump. The sediment in this container shows up just a few seconds after filling. With the submersible well pump 5-10 feet off the bottom and sand filter I should be good. Been waiting 5 years to take a hot shower out here. 
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