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bronco_ed
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2017 11:36 - Edited by: bronco_ed
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Please excuse me in advance... I am starting my solar learning curve.
As in a previous post about used equipment. From reading some items appear to be fine purchased "used" other components may be best to purchase new.
In reading I think I can get panels, and batteries used and other main components may be purchased new (controller and inverter-unless i can find quality components that someone may have out grown).
A friend of mine and I went in on a low mileage Chevy Volt battery. We will use
what each of us want/ need and will sell off the other modules.
Still waiting on a response for 265 watt panels I posted previously on.
My question is...
Is it possible to set up a kit in stages?
ie...
Use Battery and inverter to run items as needed and when needed charge battery from generator or from house (similar to what is being done with 12v battery.)
Then acquire controller and panel for solar charging.
From reading sounds like it is not very efficient to charge batteries from generator. 12v 15amp charging rather than spending cash on a higher amp charger for 48v battery it may be best just to buy panels (used) and move forward on a controller. (unless there is an economical temporary charging solution)
I would like to slowly build and begin using a system rather needing to put everything up front. In the end still looking at quality components however at a pace that is easier on the pocket book.
Again looking for plan option while trying to get my arms around what is required and what each components function actually is.
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offgridjunkie
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2017 16:57
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I think building the system slowly is a fine idea. If you buy a MPPT charge controller (I would buy this new) the only thing that would need to be changed as you go from 12volt to 48 volt is the inverter and or battery charger you use for charging from Generator.
I started small, bought used panels, new MPPT charge controller, high amp battery charger (30AMP). I have not had the need to expand or grow so I am happy. I skipped the inverter and if I increase my system voltage, I would get a new inverter.
Just my $.02
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bronco_ed
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2017 18:30 - Edited by: bronco_ed
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I am following advice that I read regarding creeky's postings. So yes the plan at this point is new charge controller and new invertor. I picked up the chevy volt battery today... Wow tough to move, had three buddies that thing is a monster. Plan to pull it apart tomorrow. After I get rid of the extra modules I will look at next component to purchase.
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bronco_ed
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2017 18:33 - Edited by: bronco_ed
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Quoting: offgridjunkie I think building the system slowly is a fine idea. Just my $.02
Well of course that is the type of comments I am hoping to hear ;)
I think I will need the inverter capable of 48v right off the bat with the volt battery?
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bronco_ed
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2017 10:24 - Edited by: bronco_ed
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Took the beast apart...
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Ontario lakeside
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2017 20:06
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Exciting stuff! I am loving our Volt battery based system!
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creeky
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2017 22:10
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Don't forget. Make sure you're not grounded when you work on those batteries. Ie. stand on a piece of wood. Not the ground. Rubber shoes. Latex or ... gloves.
Get those bus bars off first thing. I imagine you did that already. Once its all 48v or less its way safer.
And ditto. Slow but steady wins the race.
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bronco_ed
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# Posted: 23 Aug 2017 09:59 - Edited by: bronco_ed
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Creeky-First thing I was thinking was to separate so that at least there were individual packs should a mishap occur. I pulled off the top plastic and removed bus bars early on... (very carefully)
I did have rubber shoes on. I was very slow moving as I pulled things apart as I remember in one video the fellow said should you drop a tool on a pack it will be a very bad day. I don't even like keeping the plastic covers off ;)
Actually I was surprised that it did not take much to dismantle,hardest part was getting the module in the truck to bring home.
Ontario lakeside- I watched your video a few times, along with reading many of creeky's postings it is something i want to give a try. I am only going to put together a small system. Piecing it together as I can.
Everything on this topic is new to me, which I am sure everyone can tell by my questions. It is more of a learning adventure. Ha.. Learned a bit just by looking at what it takes to even charge one of these things. (As I am warned on cell balancing) Did not realize how much Creeky has pushed the envelope, perhaps some of those lithium folks should see his testing results. I have also found others that are convinced that there is no need with these type of packs. As they said "time will tell".
It's exciting to see how the technology is changing.
Thanks,
-Ed
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creeky
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# Posted: 23 Aug 2017 19:15
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When I started it was kind of new territory. There's a dedicated gang of us tho. The Volt cells will be balanced. And they are staying that way. Nice.
I just got in new cables that make the packs safer by paralleling all the cells in the pack. This is a good idea. See my website for details. I'll put something up over the next few days.
Also. I might be jumping the gun here. But I have a cell balancing solution that looks really good. Ya. Its modestly pricey. But for long term use I think its a good idea. Again. See the website.
Lakeside. you've got a package coming! Finally I know!
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Ontario lakeside
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# Posted: 24 Aug 2017 21:52
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Package! 
I just posted a new video of my system with more details. Might be of interest bronco_ed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfilBtej3t4
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bronco_ed
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# Posted: 25 Aug 2017 14:20 - Edited by: bronco_ed
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Watched it early in the morning yesterday as I could not sleep. Nice video, well done. You spelled your kit out nicely. Have you tried to push it ;) out of curiosity.
Meets planning expectations ;)
I have directed a few folks to your videos and creeky's website.
Also peeked at a few other videos that you had posted...
I think I would have put a "plug in" for creeky during the video or is that against youtube rules?
Thanks again for the info! It is all helpful. Looks like you and the family have quite a bit of fun there.
-Ed
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creeky
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# Posted: 25 Aug 2017 18:41
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I think there's a plug for me at the end of one of the videos. My company is bobolinksolar. com
Here's the custom wiring harness we're making for the Volt battery packs. Pretty sweet. Ties all the cells together for a stronger better system.
this one is on its way to Lakeside Ontario.
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bronco_ed
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# Posted: 26 Aug 2017 19:21 - Edited by: bronco_ed
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Nice Creeky...
Taking advantage of the pin connections that are already in the battery itself.
A few questions... Does the harness as shown tie in 3 48v banks?
Is your plan to then use this to tie into the BMS that you are also working on?
Not being exposed and starting @ ground zero... I am trying to understand the components and how they interact. I have not purchased the inverter/charger yet because I do not think the inverter "as is" is compatible with the lithium battery.
I see that the Solar controllers can be modified for specific battery charging specs. However I do not think the same is for CNBOU's inverter that also acts as a charger. With my uneducated eyes and looking at the specs they appear that they are set for lead acid batteries. and... why wouldn't they be :/
Low voltage specs may work but everything else well... All looks to be way to high for these battery packs.
It is my thought at this point is that the only chance for the CNBOU to work is if the manufacturer can alter settings to desired specs prior to sending. Similar to a user modified solar charging profile.
I may need to look at other inverters. Bummer I am sure it will cost more.
If Inverter/Charger is not an option. I think I would need a battery charger that allows for battery profile inputs, I am sure that a standalone would also allow a higher amp charging rate. I was hoping to try out the batteries before I actually purchased the panels and controller.
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bronco_ed
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# Posted: 26 Aug 2017 23:29 - Edited by: bronco_ed
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Yikes... There are plenty of options and price ranges, but the technology is out there. Looks like the inverter/chargers are much more "Beefy" than when just a pure sine wave inverter.
30 amp transfer switches
15 amp battery charger
battery-type selectors
efficiency ratings
Certifications /No Certification
Are there a few "mid range" inverter brands out there that folks have had good results with. At least this would be a starting point for specs and price point comparisons. Looks like it is going to be double the cost. So I will then compare price to individual components.. charger and inverter
This may take a while...
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creeky
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2017 10:50
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Yup. Time is the "free"  part of solar when you go off grid on your own.
I started small and worked my way up. It was a successful strategy for me. Your work will pay off. Trust me. I try to remind myself "one step at a time." During the implementation phase I don't look too far ahead. Just focus on the task at hand. Otherwise it can get a bit daunting.
My harnesses tie 3 48v modules together. So Ontario will have room for another module. I have a 2 module connector but its more for expanding the 3 module harness. And the price is the same. So ...
Most plain old inverters are perfect for using as is out of the box. Its the solar controller that needs to be programmed. If you can get CNBOU to custom set your specifications at the factory, I would ask for a lower alarm setting. I think they are set to 42 and you want to be able to go to 40. Which is the CNBOU inverter cut off. Just the alarm is loud and annoying. Even if you can safely ignore it.
The advantage of the more expensive inverter/chargers is the programmability. You pay a pretty penny. But ...
Ditto for some of the name brand inverters. What you buy is, depending on brand of course, proven reliability.
Note, I'm currently (ha!) using a CNBOU 2kw unit. Ya. I'm upgrading to 3. Or maybe even going Schneider 4048. But there's nothing wrong with buying a transfer switch (I have one installed from my 12v system). And adding a charger/power supply later.
Just be sure you'll need a charger. If you're three season. Or coming up weekends only. Maybe one or two longer periods. You don't need a charger. Esp. with lithium.
I would start with a controller and 2 solar panels so I had enough voltage for the batteries. But that's my ...
.02
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bronco_ed
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# Posted: 28 Aug 2017 15:34 - Edited by: bronco_ed
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Creeky,
I have contacted 3 economical Chinese manufacturers regarding the ability to provide the charging profile required for the Volt batteries. strike 2/
The last being CNBOU which should give me a response tomorrow.
Funny how you get similar responses
"Technically, your requested charging algorithm is possible.
we are flexible enough to do so.
but the demand is too small it is not worthwhile for us to develop it for now."
I recently purchased an LED aquarium light from a fellow here in the US. A little more expensive however people were willing to purchase due to his ability to refine his product to meet their needs.
He started by appealing to a niche group similar to yourself. Basically listening to what the hobbyist were after and providing exceptional customer service. He was able to quit his day job and continues to build quality LED lights and provide exceptional customer service. I am always to happy to hear of these type of successes by individuals keeping their eyes open and trying new things such as yourself.
When I hear responses like this well...
The charging scenario really reminds me of the RC hobby again. Depending own which battery you are using you need to select the correct battery type and profile for the charger to follow. Set and go... Come back to a charged battery.
I may have to switch my plans as you have suggested. I was hoping to experiment a little with the batteries for a few uses other than battery bank for solar. Since the set up needed an inverter/charging was helpful and could do this before I purchased all the equipment necessary. In time as these types of batteries are more commonly used in Solar applications most likely will become an available option for the inverter/charges.
-Ed
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bronco_ed
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# Posted: 2 Sep 2017 22:35 - Edited by: bronco_ed
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Creeky,
Now that I have investigated. I am taking the inverter only direction. Most likely the same as in the kit you made for Ontario Lakeside.
I have a question... In looking into inverters/chargers and charging in general, I came across folks in the RC world using old Computer Server Power Supplies for powering their "DC Battery chargers" to charge the large lithium batteries they were using. They are modifying the power supplies and running each power source as a module for 12,24,36 and even create 48v power supplies.
4 power supplies 48v 47a with 2300 watts of power for charging.
The AC power supplies are providing DC power... Is it possible to use this type of power for the Solar controller?
Could this be a cost effective way (i.e. $60.00 for 4 power sources+tweaks) that could run off a generator that would provide another DC power option to the controller to charge batteries for shady times?
Just asking questions.... Trying to learn here
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bronco_ed
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2017 13:35
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Creeky,
FYI...
Today I received a response from CNBOU The factory would be willing to modify the charging parameters to 48.3V for both bulk and float.
-Ed
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bronco_ed
Member
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2017 15:19 - Edited by: bronco_ed
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Sold the last of the volt batteries, now I can order another piece to the puzzle!
Solar Panels x
3 /Sun Module Plus SW 270Mono (.65 per watt!)
Solar Controller x
1 /Victron BlueSolar 150/35 MPPT
Batteries x
2 /48v 47A 2k volt modules
Inverter (Most likely Victron Energy)
Combiner box
Fuses
Wires
Connectors
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bronco_ed
Member
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2017 15:35 - Edited by: bronco_ed
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Quoting: Ontario lakeside I just posted a new video of my system with more details. Might be of interest bronco_ed
The interface on the controller appears to be same base software as the controller on my aquarium... (sample of interface)
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bronco_ed
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# Posted: 16 Sep 2017 18:27
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Fun getting presents in the mail.. Inverter and Blue tooth dongle is off list now.
Only a few more items left to purchase.
Combiner box
Fuses
Wires
Connectors
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bronco_ed
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2017 17:22
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Would this combiner box work well with the components I have.
Ontario lakeside does not mention to much on the combiner box.
Would rather have a non conductive box, smaller in size.
I don't think I'll ever need more than 2 strings. 20amp
I see another a similar combiner box with fuses on eBay, however it ships from Hong Kong.
http://solarpowercombinerbox.com/dual_fused_solar_power_combiner_box_escb_df.html
I see folks making combiner box with tab type auto fuses... I have plenty of them on hand up to 5-50 amps. Anyone make one similar?
Thanks!
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2017 18:06
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I use the midnight solar boxes as I very much like their circuit breakers.
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bronco_ed
Member
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2017 19:34
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Thanks yes I was looking at them (prewired). I was hoping to find something a bit more compact and in plastic... (ha first time I actually wanted something made out of plastic)
After looking a bit more I do see they make a "baby box" I would have to buy all pieces separately and assemble.
(Which does not appear to be complicated.)
Or buy the components and house in a small plastic unit that I was hoping for.
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ICC
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2017 20:27 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: bronco_ed I was hoping to find something a bit more compact and in plastic...
Why? Metal has been used for decades for high voltage service panels. Completely safe when designed and used properly. Never had one rust myself. I believe the midnight boxes are aluminum. Made in USA. The Baby series are indoor use only I believe. Their combiners can be used outside, unprotected from weather.
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bronco_ed
Member
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2017 11:11
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Thank you for your suggestions...
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bronco_ed
Member
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2017 13:02
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Ordered the marine fuses, busbars,switches,etc. So I only need proper wire,connectors and determine what I want to do on combiner box.
Not much to a combiner box so there are options.
I want to enclose similar to Ontario Lakeside set up however I may investigate a couple areas with quick disconnects. Battery will not be in same enclosure but close by. The set up will be easy to hide/ tote away... aside from panels of course.
Almost there with components.
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bronco_ed
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2017 19:18 - Edited by: bronco_ed
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I think I am finding narrowing in on components for the combiner box I am interested in for my setup...
Here is something similar:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291627541370 I like this but... it is a bit larger than I wanted.
The enclosures are made right here in Michigan.
Possibly order the compact midnight solar busbars, breakers,etc.
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bronco_ed
Member
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# Posted: 23 Sep 2017 17:25
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Almost there!
Wire and combiner box components remain
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bronco_ed
Member
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# Posted: 3 Oct 2017 13:13
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Just need to add wires ;)
Midnight solar components... 20 amp breakers..
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