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Borrego
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2018 10:16
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It is 'ventless' which is the main thing I'm concerned about...
https://www.amazon.com/ProCom-MG20TBF-Ventless-Thermostat-Control/dp/B01B7AGAKU/ref=p d_sbs_60_5?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=RC8934G3MYDXAXH7NBK2
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Atlincabin
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2018 10:52
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I have one that I use in my shop on occasion. I always leave the window above it cracked open because of fumes. My original thought was to use in a guest cabin, but that was not viable at all. I would NOT use this heater in any building that is tight at all, and would NOT use it in any building where you are running it more than occasionally to take a chill off. In spite of what it says (safe) I don't believe it. There are some older threads on here that discuss safety of ventless heaters.
If I had it to do over, I would pay more and get a vented heater unless you are using it only occasionally in a well-ventilated space.
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xtolekbananx
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2018 13:04
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My first winter in the cabin I used Mr Heater Big Buddy. It is not dual fuel but propane only. It is basically the same concept as this only thing it is portable and almost half the price. I always left a window cracked for safety reasons and had CO and smoke detector. Those not vented heaters are ok for emergency or quick heat before the wood stove kicks in. You can smell the fumes after a while. If you go with propane heat use vented heater, more expensive but worth it and you will be safe at night. I personally love wood stoves. They give you that cabin feel and wood smells great.
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xtolekbananx
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2018 17:26
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I forgot to mention that not vented propane heaters create condensation, and bow I'm reading news about a cabin tragedy in AZ.
https://nypost.com/2018/01/02/family-of-4-found-dead-in-vacation-cabin/
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Borrego
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2018 19:15
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The wall I am left able to use was the only exterior one without windows, but I built a big screen porch on that side of the house and do not want to have a vent running through the porch....
I was hoping to find an ultra efficient heater that requires no vent but I'm probably left to a direct vent type....eh?
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Borrego
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2018 19:34
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Possibility?
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200631837_200631837?cm_mmc=Google-pla &utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Heaters,%20Stoves%20%2B%20Fireplaces%20%3E%20Propan e%20Heaters%20%3E%20Propane%20Wall%20Heaters&utm_campaign=HouseWarmer&utm_content=446 34&gclid=CjwKCAiA-KzSBRAnEiwAkmQ15zUVvDmMIJy5D39kslsi_7STfl7og2rwZ_CDi4lG3Vt9uA05x4We wBoCwuAQAvD_BwE
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xtolekbananx
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2018 19:40
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This thing is only 8000 btu, it all depends how big is your cabin, location, weather and insulation
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rockies
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2018 21:31
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The same questions about ventless (vent free, unvented, etc) heaters keep coming up and despite the warnings people keep buying them.
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/energy-solutions/avoid-unvented-gas-he aters
DON'T BUY THEM!
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Rowjr
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2018 06:26
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no vent or use vent heaters....quite a subject to get into...but should be look at
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Borrego
Member
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2018 10:57
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Ok, I'm glad I brought this up and did the research...hopefully will help someone else as well......
I guess I'll use my existing Little Buddy with the window cracked as i have been....it really doesn't get that cold where we are anyway, no sense in taking any chances!
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rockies
Member
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2018 19:30
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If you must use a propane heater remember that they are not designed to be the primary heating source. They should be used as backup and should only be a direct vent appliance where the combustion is contained within the unit and the air supply and the exhaust exits to the outdoors. The only thing that comes into the interior space is the heat.
The Empire Elite is an example of a direct vent heater.
http://empirezoneheat.com/products/direct-vent-wall-furnaces/
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Cowracer
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2018 09:26 - Edited by: Cowracer
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My fireplace is vent free. I have CO detectors on both levels. I have a propane detector on the bottom level by the fireplace.
I have had zero issues running in the manner in which its intended. which is more for ambience than actual heating (although I used the hell out of over NYE) I do not leave it on when I sleep, or when we leave. A properly designed vent-free unit is safe, as long as you maintain the burner, keep the propane pressure in the acceptable range, and DO NOT MODIFY ANYTHING on it. Vent-free units don't really make that great roaring fire like a vented one will, because the burner is sized for complete combustion.
Properly combusted, propane and LP produce nothing but CO2 and water. It is incomplete combustion that makes CO. The biggest issue with a vent free is that it will deplete the oxygen in the room. Mine has an O2 depletion sensor that kills it dead, including pilot. That happened twice so far when I forgot to open a window for a little fresh air. I have yet to experience condensation, but I do notice and welcome the more humid air in the winter.
Under the conditions I mentioned, I have no question of the safety of my vent-free fireplace.
Tim
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rockies
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2018 18:26
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And that really becomes the issue: "Under the conditions I have mentioned".
I wouldn't trust my health or safety to a device that needs to operate under all those "conditions". One little fault, one failure of the unit or any of its parts and disaster.
If no other option was available then perhaps using an unvented or vent free device might be warranted. But why take the risk when there are units on the market (direct vent) that keep the entire combustion process sealed and outside the cabin?
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rockies
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2018 19:25
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http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/arizona-family-found-dead-in-cabin-after-signific ant-failure-of-heating-system/ar-BBHQmtp?li=AAggFp5&ocid=mailsignout
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darz5150
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2018 20:40
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Quoting: rockies I wouldn't trust my health or safety to a device that needs to operate under all those "conditions". One little fault, one failure of the unit or any of its parts and disaster
Does that mean you dont drive a vehicle, operate dangerous tools, pump gasoline in your car or cross the street in front of cars that may have one brake part failure?
The article you posted didnt say that it was a ventless heater. Maybe it had a bad flue pipe or a blockage.
I agree, safety first whenever possible. However paranoia will destroy ya.
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darz5150
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2018 20:56 - Edited by: darz5150
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Just googled about electric space heater safety.
Space heaters account for only a third of winter heater fires but cause 80 percent of the deaths. It also said that electric space heaters are the only space heaters that are safe to operate indoors! 😖
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Cowracer
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2018 21:13
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Quoting: rockies But why take the risk when there are units on the market (direct vent) that keep the entire combustion process sealed and outside the cabin?
Because I didn't want a glass pane between me and the fire. If I wanted that, I would have bought one of those fake electric ones. oh, and mine was a third of the cost of a direct vent one.
I understand you are hung up on safety and such things. But I think you are dead wrong in arbitrarily declaring a vent-free unit "dangerous" just because you feel it is. Many thousands of these types of heaters are in use daily in the US and we are not stacking the dead bodies up like cordwood yet. And as far as those poor unfortunate people in Arizona... That was a vented, residential heater than failed, not a vent free unit. IMHO, if you have an open fire in your house of any kind (water heater, stove, furnace, fireplace, etc) and do not have a working CO detector, you are courting danger in the worst possible way
Tim
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don62
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# Posted: 5 Jan 2018 01:45
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I use one in my cabin, works well, its an old resort cabin, definitely not airtight maybe even drafty. I have smoke and o2 detectors and leave a window open in the bedroom at night. It definitely makes condensation, a lot. I'm going to change it out to a vented one this fall, mainly because of the condensation.
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SCSJeff
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2018 10:30
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Hey all,
Just wanted to tag onto this thread as I'm contemplating what to do for our back bedroom...
Have a wood stove (old inefficient one) and a Williams 30K BTU Direct Vent Propane Heater in the main living area. Both, will warm the main living room/dining room/kitchen as well as the upstairs nicely. However, the back bedroom on the first floor does not get the heat from those 2 heaters.
Side note: I don't quite understand the comment that propane heaters are meant for backup purposes only??? (maybe that's for the ventless?) Until the temps get below 40-45 F, I don't start the wood stove and run the direct vent heater as the primary. Don't see a whole lot of difference between that and a whole house propane furnace... Interesting too, my insurance company refused my policy when I told them the wood stove was the primary heat. So I said, fine... The Propane furnace is the primary 
Anyway, back to topic, I have a kerosene heater in the back bedroom that I use regularly to evenly heat the back part of the cabin in combo with the other aforementioned heaters. I always keep the back bathroom window slightly cracked as well as a window upstairs cracked. I normally don't notice any moisture. But, recently, when the temps dropped to 0F and I had the kero going nonstop, I did see moisture on the windows. Oh, and I do have several smoke/CO detectors.
I had planned for another direct vent in the bedroom (and still do eventually when I have another $600 to spend). But, until then, the kerosene heater is annoying... takes up additional floor space, smells some, and keeping kerosene is just another thing to store and keep filled...
So... I want to get rid of the kerosene heater. I'm looking to get a Mr. Heater Big Buddy for several purposes... 1) Uninsulated Garage heat at home when working out there, 2) Carry out to hunting stand (small tree house) for hunting. (I find the older I get, the less I can stand the cold weather), 3) emergency use, and 4) possibly to replace the kerosene heater at the cabin until I get a permanent direct vent.
Question... Is a ventless propane heater really any worse than a kerosene heater? If not, I just assume replace that with the Big Buddy and keep going as I have been. At least that simplifies fuel storage and hopefully smells better than the kerosene heater...
Thoughts?
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Cowracer
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2018 10:25
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Quoting: SCSJeff Is a ventless propane heater really any worse than a kerosene heater?
Probably far better. I doubt a kerosene heater gives complete combustion (hence the smell) and as such produces carbon monoxide at some rate. A properly designed Vent-free will not.
Also, a good vent-free will have an oxygen depletion sensor that will kill the unit if the O2 level in the room gets too low by being used up for combustion. I don't think any kerosene heaters have those.
The Big Buddy is a catalytic heater, very safe. Lots of RVers I know use them for supplemental heat.
Tim
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SCSJeff
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2018 10:49 - Edited by: SCSJeff
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Hey Tim,
Thanks for the reply! That's the same thinking I have. Just wanted to see if I was missing anything... Lots of talk online about how dangerous ventless heaters are or can be (and it indeed makes sense to me). But, not much regarding kerosene heaters... Shoot I remember my parents running the same style kerosene heater 40 years ago that I have now. I guess the argument being that those older houses let in plenty of oxygen...
Again, my end goal is to have a direct vent. Would be nice not having to leave windows cracked open if I don't have to. (On second thought, I may always leave one cracked when the wood stove is running anyway...)
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KinAlberta
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2018 22:02
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Bottom line: why breath in exhaust fumes if you don’t have to? Who knows what they are doing to your lungs etc.
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Jebediah
Member
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2018 14:07
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Also the vented wall heaters have to be a certain distance from any wall opening/windows doors etc... at least here in NS Canada. I wondered why the place I bought had two Empire wall heaters and solid glass windows next to them. Now I have to reconfigured my kitchen layout as my old fridge wasn't vented and my new one will be....
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