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justinbowser
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# Posted: 27 Sep 2018 21:57 - Edited by: justinbowser
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Hi y'all!
We have a small cabin and right now have a 35 gallon tank that we pretty much just use for the shower and we use bottled water for drinking.
The water pump is a SEAFLO 24V DC 1.2 GPM 35 PSI 21-Series Diaphragm Water Pressure Pump and I guess it works OK but we get very little flow or pressure at the shower head. I have bought an on-demand propane water heater and feel I need to step up a bit with more reliable flow and pressure so I think I need to get some sort of pressure tank to pump water into. I have no idea about what I need or just about how to go about installing it!
I see Expansion Tanks, Pre-Pressurized Accumulator Tanks, In-Line Pressure Tanks, etc. I have no idea what I need to just run the output from my pump into and get a stable flow of water out that will make the water heater happy and be able to have a decent shower!
If I am allowed to post links I'd be happy to post up a couple that I think might work.
I will eventually run a line from this stuff inside to the "kitchen" sink as well.
Thanks in advance.
Justin B.
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Atlincabin
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# Posted: 27 Sep 2018 22:40 - Edited by: Atlincabin
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Buy a Shurflo pump (either 12V or 110V, depending on your power supply) and plumb in line. Easy to do, uses 1/2" pipe thread - get the "silencer" flexible lines along with the pump to connect to your other plumbing. Will provide all the pressure you need. Typically running a shower, the pump will run continuously. You can add an accumulator/pressure tank if you want, but it's not necessary. Not sure I remember the exact model number but I think the newer (quieter) ones are 4088 and the older ones are 2088. These are very common in RVs and can be bought for well under $100, usually more like $30-50 if you look around.
When you run to your kitchen etc., you might want to add a small pressure tank. That will keep the pump from cycling whenever you just get a drink of water (although the cycling won't hurt the pump at all).
I think most of the Shurflo pumps cut-in at about 30 psi and cut-out at 55 psi. They generally put out about 3 gpm unless you are pumping uphill a distance. Mine have worked fine for years running a small instant water heater.
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ICC
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# Posted: 27 Sep 2018 22:56
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Yep. Get a Shurflo. Don't bother with a pressure tank. Most RV's don't use them; Shurflo warrantees the pump w/o a pressure tank. Mine have run for years. The one in my RV is at least 12 years old.
They are easy to find in 12 VDC. Also available in 24 VDC and 115 VAC. Just have to look harf=der to fins a 24 VDC if that is what your system is.
They run about 3.0 gallons a minute which is good for most shower heads and faucets.
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justinbowser
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# Posted: 27 Sep 2018 23:00
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I already have the Seaflo pump and just looking for a way to get a bit more performance. If a pressure or accumulator tank will do that it's a lot less than what a Shurflo pump costs.
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ICC
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# Posted: 27 Sep 2018 23:45
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The 1.2 GPM makes it difficult to keep up to even the best low capacity shower heads. The Seaflo is a cheap pump and will always have performance issues. There's good reason why nearly every RV uses a Shurflo or a Flojet pump. They work.
You could possibly up the GPM to the shower head by installing a pressure tank. There is, however, no point in buying one of those little accumulator tanks like Shurflo and Seaflo sell. They are small, less than a quart. Once that amount of water is used up the flow all comes from the pump. The real purpose of those accumulator tanks is to keep the pump from cycling when a faucet is opened for a moment to just supply a cup or less of water.
You could buy a larger size pressure tank, 4 or 5 or more gallons. That would give you more flow until it runs low. Then you would be back to the 1.2 GPM from the pump. You then need to wait for the low capacity pump to refill and repressurize the pressure / accumulator tank. A 5 gallon pressure tank is probably about $60, that's almost the cost of a 4008 Shurflo.
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justinbowser
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2018 00:11
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All of the 4008 series pumps I see on Amazon are 12V and my battery bank is 24V. All of the 24V Shurflo pumps are $90 and up.
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ILFE
Member
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2018 10:03
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From another long time ShurFlo Pump user, definitely change out the pump. Shurflo will deliver the amount of water you need.
Quoting: justinbowser All of the 4008 series pumps I see on Amazon are 12V and my battery bank is 24V.
You need to look for a "buck converter". Just do a quick internet search for one to convert 24vdc to 12vdc. They should be fairly commonly found.
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redwolfguild
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2018 11:27
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Quoting: justinbowser All of the 4008 series pumps I see on Amazon are 12V and my battery bank is 24V. All of the 24V Shurflo pumps are $90 and up.
I know $90 bucks seems expensive, but how much time and pain in the ass is going to be to add a pressure tank. The Shurflo is the really the only option for reliable off the grid. I ran one in an RV for 20 years, taking showers, doing dishes, etc. Never replaced it, always worked when I needed water.
I have found that in off the grid, there are areas I am willing to be more frugal with products, but water, heat, and electricity, Not a chance in hell.
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justinbowser
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2018 12:38
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Is this pump of the type that when you open the faucet it starts and you get a pulsing stream? If so I will still need to add a tank to help smooth out the flow.
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beachman
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2018 13:05
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I have a Shurflo 12v, 3 GPM pump with expansion tank all in one unit that runs water from a 35 gal tank for the bathroom. It runs the sink faucet and our shower with very good pressure. We have a propane on-demand water heater and the showers are nice and hot. I highly recommend this set up. The pump starts automatically when you turn on the tank and cycles with the faucet but runs full time while using the shower. The heater starts automatically when you run the hot water.
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ILFE
Member
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2018 13:19
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Quoting: justinbowser Is this pump of the type that when you open the faucet it starts and you get a pulsing stream? If so I will still need to add a tank to help smooth out the flow.
Yep. That's the one. I never needed an accumulator. As long as the pump has enough continuous flow, it will not cycle. Personally, I would install a Shurflo 4008 and the silencing kit. Then see how that runs. If you do find that it cycles too frequently, add an accumulator to the system. I don't think you will need one, though.
1/2" water PVC water pipe was fine for our system here, until we exchanged the pump for an AC pump several months ago. To be honest, I wish I had kept the Shurflo attached.
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ICC
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2018 15:09 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: justinbowser If so I will still need to add a tank to help smooth out the flow
No. In past years I would live in my RV for months at a time when working remotely. Very seldom was I ever hooked up to campground water. I relied on a Shurflo pump with no accumulator or pressure tank. There may be very slight pulsing of the water flow but it was never a problem. The Seaflo pump you have is undersized for almost any application. That is why it is cheaper than a higher capacity pump. You asked how to solve your problem. You are getting the best advice, get a pump that can supply the volume you need.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2018 15:12
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The silencing kit is a good idea, but you can pickup flex hoses at any home supply store plus any fittings you need.
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justinbowser
Member
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2018 17:06
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OK, I'll see what I can find in the 24V 4008 class...
Quoting: ICC You asked how to solve your problem. You are getting the best advice, get a pump that can supply the volume you need.
I actually asked about tank and how to install but that seemed to have gotten lost along the way...
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FishHog
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2018 17:24
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a pressure tank won't solve your problem, but you just plumb it in line after your pump. But you will still be limited to 35psi, so if you want more pressure, you won't get it. They store pressure from your pump, they don't make more.
Unless you have a 24v battery, you should be able to wire a 12v pump off on of your 12v batteries or 2 of your 6 v batteries, depending on your system.
I have the same setup everyone is recommending and would also recommend it, even if it is lost along the way from your original question. People are just trying to give you the best solution. You can throw more money at your current setup, but I don't think you will be happy with the results in the end.
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justinbowser
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2018 17:29
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Thanks, Fish, that's what I wanted to know and I think I'll try to get a better pump and I still want a tank. I don't want to run off just one battery to help eliminate another cause for the bank to get unbalanced.
I appreciate the suggestions and thank everybody for their input.
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justinbowser
Member
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2018 17:50
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OK, how about this?
Shurflo 2088-474-144 Delivery Pump 3.0 GPM 45 PSI 24V 1/2 MPT
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2018 18:16
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https://www.amazon.com/Shurflo-2088-474-144-3-0GPM-Delivery-without/dp/B007KDY574
Wonderful pump. Try it before bothering with a tank. That pump should supply enough for a shower no problem. If the pump cycling on-off at low flow or when just drawing a glass of water at a sink bothers you then an accumulator will help by reducing the cycling. Shurflo, however, states in their factory literature that an accumulator is not ordinarily necessary. Since these tanks are simple to add, you will save money by starting with a pump that can deliver the needed volume and without a tank.
Yes, your OP was about tanks, what kind to use, however, from the specs of your existing pump and what you want to do it is clear to those who have experience that a pressure tank or an accumulator tank is not the solution.
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Atlincabin
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2018 20:01
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FWIW, I also have a Shurflo in my camper and it did pulse somewhat in the sink. The little plastic accumulator smoothed out the flow considerably even though the pump still cycles.
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justinbowser
Member
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2018 22:17 - Edited by: justinbowser
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OK, ordered the pump and we'll see how it goes. Right now the water tank and pump are in an out-building next to the cabin and only feeds an "RV shower" but I will probably run PVC underground to the cabin for the faucet in the sink. The propane on-demand hot water heater will also go in the shed and will also be piped to the cabin when the cold water line is run.
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justinbowser
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# Posted: 10 Oct 2018 20:09
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Got up to the cabin last weekend and swapped my old pump with the Shurflo pump. I can't tell a whole lot of difference in flow/pressure but it as a whole lot quieter and water coming out of the shower head is a bit let "pulsy." I think maybe I need to take the shower head apart and see if it has a flow restrictor.
This is the shower unit. I cut a hole into the end of the outbuilding and mounted this in. Neat installation and doesn't get in the way.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B019F81FQ0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8& psc=1
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