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Small Cabin Forum / Properties / Avoid building permit?
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TomChum
Member
# Posted: 23 Aug 2011 10:32
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Yes made my coffee better too. That Lowes has been in existance that long makes me feel old.

nicalisa
Member
# Posted: 24 Aug 2011 00:32
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very interesting thread.....and very passionate opinions. I am originally from NY and love that they have a concept of a cabin allowed in their building codes....it is a shame that other states and provinces have not adopted this type of understanding which either prevents people from building due to the very high costs or makes people who want a place to enjoy the outdoors criminals if they do not have the $$s to comply with the regulations.
Sad indeed.....

Anonymous
# Posted: 26 Aug 2011 00:19
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I may have some on a old hard drive. I didn't take any when I built it. I took a couple of digital a few years ago when I visited.

Anonymous
# Posted: 18 Oct 2011 15:34
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Quoting: Anonymous
There is no excuse to break the law and build substandard housing.

This is a novel concept but really you must be part of the 1% that does not want other to have. You have to keep in mind there is a percent of the population that would like to live off the land in a cabin under 1000Sq ft. It has been proven that 2 people can live very comfortable in 750 sq ft. By-Laws and codes were have been written for the common joe to "conform" to the mind set of those that govern us. Do you own your property or are you merely a tenant of the Gov?

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 18 Oct 2011 18:05
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My area, you can now go up to 200 sq feet, no permit as long as its not a permanent foundation and it can be just a tool/storage shed, not a cabin etc.

Anonymous
# Posted: 19 Oct 2011 07:24
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Not sure what you mean by not wanting others to have? I think if you are able than you should work. You want to live off the land? Me too. But that does not mean you should sit on your butt collecting welfare. Believe me I don't want to foot the bill for you because you decided to drop out of society because you couldn't handle it. And like it or not there are laws and you must obey them or pay the price. Not likeing other people telling you what to do? Tough crap that's life.

bobrok
Member
# Posted: 19 Oct 2011 08:34
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Thumbs up for anon #2.

CabinBuilder
Admin
# Posted: 19 Oct 2011 10:38
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Quoting: Anonymous
But that does not mean you should sit on your butt collecting welfare.

These are two separate issues:
* ones is permit related - for example, a minimum sq.ft. requirement, which is an issue for people wanting to build a smaller occasional use/recreational cabin
* second is welfare/social/ideology/politics related. Let's don't go there.

MtnDon
Member
# Posted: 19 Oct 2011 15:37 - Edited by: MtnDon
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It's usually a local covenant, not the code, that limits the minimum size of a structure. It amounts to the same thing though as it is an law and IMO that is ridiculous for rural and semi rural areas. It may be suited for a la-le-da urban development where the point is to keep the properties all at or above a certain market value.

In our mountains permits are required for a building and there are certain zoning laws that vary depending on property size. The places nearby with minimum square footage requirements are developments with other rules too. Buying into such a place really limits your freedom. A committee decides what can and can not be done. I wouldn't want any part of that unless I was the first one and I was setting the rules to suit myself.

smitty
Member
# Posted: 20 Oct 2011 10:11
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We all here, want very different things.
But we all have one thing in common. We are round pegs trying to fit into a square hole.

hattie
Member
# Posted: 20 Oct 2011 13:15
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Quoting: smitty
But we all have one thing in common. We are round pegs trying to fit into a square hole.


You have that right smitty!! *S* I think what attracts all of us to this site is that we are a bit "different" from "normal" folk. Most of us think outside the box and as such usually end up accomplishing what most just dream of.

Personally I would never build without a permit. I would be too afraid someone would show up one day and make me tear the place down. It's sad that we can't just build what we want, how we want on the property we have paid good money for, but permits do make sure that we don't do anything to cause problems for the neighbours or the environment and occasionally the building inspectors will catch something that would have caused a problem in the future. We have had some bad experiences with building inspectors in the past, but I must admit (with my teeth gritted) they are a necessity in this day and age.

Anonymous
# Posted: 3 Nov 2011 15:36
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If you have the proper setbacks, and your septic poses no run-off problems, you shouldn't have other people dictating the minutiae of your life.

As someone pointed out, nothing in the law poses a problem for people with a ton of money, it's people just trying to put up what they need that get hosed by unreasonable regulations. What ever happened to bootstrapping?

Anyway, the irony of it all is that the only places I have found that you can build without the government dictating every last detail and/or pushing a project out of your price range is on an Indian reservation. If you are a member of the tribe, that is, or they let you.

We won the wars, they got the freedom.

Anonymous
# Posted: 5 Nov 2011 16:36
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Well, I don't have a lot of money but made sure I got building permits. As far as the comment about Native Americans a high price was paid for what you consider "freedom".

Freeholder
Member
# Posted: 5 Nov 2011 18:05
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I don't have any problem with getting building permits, as long as they don't cost an exorbitant amount (like some places in California, where it can cost more for the permits than for the materials for a modest house!). I also don't want to be required to put in a septic system if I'm going to be using a composting toilet.

Kathleen

mrmiji
Member
# Posted: 5 Nov 2011 18:42 - Edited by: mrmiji
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In the USA, minimizing your taxation isn't a crime but a personal responsibility. Similarly, unless law requires permission, one would be foolish to request permission to do anything. It's not militant just sensible.

Ignoring laws.... One shouldn't have to wait for a Supreme Court to declare a law unconstitutional. If it is, it was so from inception. The problem is that you may have to live with the consequences in the interim should you choose to violate it. We're moving rapidly toward a time where those that have not can vote to take from those that have. Should it continue, property rights may dissolve entirely.

A large problem in the USA is that many "environmental" laws have no basis in science and have more to do with enhancing revenue. Building permits are often the most egregious of these.

Regardless of your politics, any construction should be responsible whether it's required by government or not. I regularly hear from rural owners that they can do what they want. I find this repugnant. How could one choose to defile their own land?

Wazzu
# Posted: 6 Nov 2011 20:02
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I cant beleive what some localities make you put up with as far as permits and fees. I like the system they have in Montana. No permits needed for structures, only plumbing and electrical. That is if you feel like it. If you want to build a piece of crap on your property feel free. If you want something nice, go for it. I for one prefer to not participate in many of the "permit" scams. Happy building fellas.

Anonymous
# Posted: 7 Nov 2011 05:57
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Wazzu, I don't know where you got your information it is not correct. Building permits are required in Montana. YOUR choice in not participating is personal and will get you on the wrong side of your building inspectors.

Wazzu
# Posted: 7 Nov 2011 08:17
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Outside of city limits. The state is the regulating body for building. This is what they say about it.

In the State's jurisdiction, state law exempts the following from the need to obtain state building permits:
farm and ranch buildings
mining buildings on mining property
petroleum refineries and pulp and paper mills (except office and shop buildings)
residential buildings containing less than five dwelling units (except when serving transient guests)
private garages and private storage buildings used for the owner's own use (not part of a commercial enterprise or business).

Anonymous
# Posted: 7 Nov 2011 16:17
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They also say in a rural area you may need a state building permit. Don't take a web sites information as the last word. Make a trip down to your municipal offices with your building plan to be sure.

smitty
Member
# Posted: 7 Nov 2011 17:12
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I was looking at a 7 acre piece of property in West Virginia in a hollow.
From what I was told after making a bunch of phone calls, there was no zoning, or permits, or rules. It was the perfect place, to take a stack of lumber and build a rustic cabin and live life the old ways with wood and an outhouse and oil lamps. That's what we wanted, and I almost bought it.. If they had jobs within an hour drive, I would have. But yeah, some places are still so rural and wild, you can do what you please.

concretefire
Member
# Posted: 12 Nov 2011 02:40
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I want my cabin PRECISELY so I can get the hell away from people like Anon. As far away as possible. It's truly a miracle how we all survived before big brother came along and told us all how we should live.

Hey Anon, if you don't want to see my cabin....and I'm there first....DON'T MOVE THERE! Kinda like bitching about what's on TV but not changing the channel. Brilliant.

No matter, mine is going to be underground completely anyway. Good luck finding that. Anon, you really come across as one arrogant person who is unwilling to even remotely think outside the 'government' box.

If you've truly worked hard for 30 yrs to build your own cabin and do it exactly by the book, I doubt very seriously you are on the right forum anyway. This is a Small Cabin Forum and for you to say these are shacks or to imply they are shacks is just awe full. And if you are truly worried about the value of your land, then I am absolutely positive you are on the wrong board.

BlaineHill
Member
# Posted: 12 Nov 2011 08:05
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One day when I was roofing my cabin, a neighbor stopped back to introduce himself. Whenever I meet someone new out there, I always ask about building permit requirements. I keep hearing the same thing -- they just won't come out this far. My neighbor out there explained how he built his entire house including a dug basement, hooking into the public utility and never had a permit for anything. His only concern was this: How long before the tax man finds it? They found it eventually. Some of you will think this is unbelievable, but it just goes to show how codes vary from place to place.

deleted
# Posted: 29 Nov 2011 10:47
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The reason they need you to get permit, is so they have power over you. If you never sign there user agreement ( permit) they have no power. Once you sign permit, you aggreed to there rules past present and future. Build it on weekends when goverment donut kings are off.
Once cabin or shed is built it is grandfathered. With a permit, they can just vilate you or fine you at any time, because they have your signature. Without your signature they must take to to court. Court cost them money, plus with a jury trial. who are the jury going to side with american tax payer or big brother.
When you get permit, you have to sign permit to make it valid.
Once they have your signature they own your land and you lost your land rights.

hattie
Member
# Posted: 29 Nov 2011 12:17
Reply 


Quoting: deleted
Once cabin or shed is built it is grandfathered.


Grandfathering is great but if the place burns down or floods, the grandfathering is gone and they'll be after you for new permits. That's how it is here in Canada but I can't speak for the rules in the States. Our town has a lot of cabins that are grandfathered on small lots. We warn newcomers about buying them because if they burn down, the owners won't have enough land that will conform to the new septic laws. They will end up owning a piece of land that is only good enough to park a camper on.

Anonymous
# Posted: 11 Dec 2011 12:44
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Anyone know what might be permitted in Colorado? Any suggestions to rural areas there?

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 12 Dec 2011 23:48
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My area, I found now allows up to 200 sq feet, no permit. But it cant be a cabin, only storage shed. Also a non permit structure can not have a permanent foundation. If you do build it as a cabin, you cant reside in it more than 60 days a year, if you have a well on the property, you must have a full septic. If no well, you can and must get a privy permit first before a building permit will be issued. And once the cabin is in place, you cant not install a well unless you do a full septic. So a privy and well cant exist at the same time.

Swamphunter
Member
# Posted: 13 Dec 2011 06:41
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Im not sure about all the building permit woes on here.. must be the state or the locality. I begrudgingly called my permit guy and he was very friendly and stated that a hunting camp is considered a seasonal residence, therefore is not bound by as strict a code. He stated that the materials used are not as strict and after I explained to him my plan he gave me 3 requirements and 1 suggestion. The requirements were to bring him a drawing or blueprint of the building and location of property lines, an inspection of my woodstove once installed, and to get a permit. The suggestion was and he even said although not a requirement, I should "add a battery powered smoke alarm and carbon monoxide detector, which I already have in my possession! Lol...
I realize my taxes will go up a bit, but its worth it to be up to code as so not to be made to make costly upgrades to get me within regulations... kind of a peace of mind.

Anonymous
# Posted: 13 Jan 2012 22:40
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Tis far better to request forgiveness than permission.
Adults is one thing, but if children are involved - it becomes a
welfare issue - do not go there.
Own the place. I said Own.
Be out of sight from anywhere outside your property.
Live in a PO Box.
Live in a manner similar to your neighbors.
Be vague.
Nothing is permanent.
If you sell, you are selling Bare Land.

rancid
Member
# Posted: 14 Jan 2012 01:57
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I'm going to just use a single shipping container . That will be considered tempory . Therefore it's not much different than a camp trailer

Swamphunter
Member
# Posted: 15 Jan 2012 19:28
Reply 


Yep, and dont forget about the eye in the sky.... satellite imagery. Sooner or later, they will compare photos....

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