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Small Cabin Forum / Properties / By-Laws that affect the enjoyment of our property (Bruce Peninsula)
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fedup
Member
# Posted: 28 Dec 2011 10:54
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Hi and a quick note to all...I own a rather large bush lot in the Northern Bruce Peninsula...I recently put in a driveway and parking lot...maybe some day we might build a cottage or retirement home, but thats a long ways away...In the meantime we were planning to place a 5th wheel trailer on the property..it would be totally out of site from the general public...We were stopped from doing so by the municipality and by-law enforcement...There are two by-laws pertaining to this....By-Law 2002-54 , and 2008-16..These are a zoning by-law and the tent and trailer by-law....Both make reference to the prohibiting of occupying tents and trailers on private land..If you have a home on your property..well then your good to go...Us less fortunate folk who have not yet built on our land..we have no such rights it seems....If anyone is thinking of putting a 10x10 shack on their land...the same rules apply..if there is a bed in it or cooking utensils..the municipality can and will fine you and eventually remove the structure at your cost....Im fighting this one at present but have yet to get anywhere with it...Wish me luck...Im going to need it...You can find the by-laws online by simply googling it.

trollbridge
Member
# Posted: 28 Dec 2011 11:04
Reply 


Sorry to hear your woes. Are you saying you cannot at all camp in a tent or trailer or only for a limited time? Hmm, is it possible that there is a separate "camping" permit you could apply for to make it ok? If not, what exactly can you do on your own land?????
Good luck in what could be a long and frustrating battle.

bushbunkie
Member
# Posted: 28 Dec 2011 12:14
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Hey Fedup...welcome to my world...unfortunately...and if you do want to build something, it has to be a minimum 1000sq. ft and cannot be a loft over a garage...even the local contractors think these bylaws are ridiculous.
I'm on the Bruce as well and I went ahead and built a bunkie and put in a well two years ago. I put in an outhouse with a compost (peatmoss) toilet.
First I got to know my neighbours...and they were fine with it.
We're just staying under the radar...things on the Bruce are ridiculous...but it's so damn beautiful up there.
One thing you could do is build a bunkie...but place it on 6" x 6" beams.
If push ever comes to shove, you could have it removed by a flatbed trailer, sell it and still recoup your costs.

turkeyhunter
Member
# Posted: 28 Dec 2011 14:44
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MY LAND+++i would camp out--if i wanted too!!!!!!

but hey that's just me!!!!!!

hate you going through all these laws and permitting problems!!!!

MtnDon
Member
# Posted: 28 Dec 2011 15:41 - Edited by: MtnDon
Reply 


Looks like they got you coming and going. Camping is allowed for only 7 days IF there is a house/cottage that conforms to the Ontario Building Code already on the property. I wish you the best of luck because I think you'll need it. Min habitable space of 1000, minimum ground floor 753..... and so on....


Note to anyone thinking about buying vacant land... check on these details before signing and paying money. I don't mean to be critical of anyone but maybe this is something you learn with age or experience. Maybe others can learn about what to check on before completing the purchase. We bypassed three properties when looking for land because of size restrictions. I know someone out west here who has bought land that they may not be able to build on because of unstable slopes; they shift downhill every spring.

On the other hand I'll take a chance at being vilified by stating, "look at it from the other side". If anyone of us owned some land already we might not be too happy if someone brought in a ratty looking old travel trailer next door and set up housekeeping with a half dozen old cars they were parting out. Plus maybe saved up their garbage and burned it once in a while when the smell got too bad for them to stand.

Zoning and other laws work both ways; an impediment to some and a protection to others. Sometimes the same person but at different times.

URL1: COMPREHENSIVE ZONING - MUNICIPALITY OF NORTHERN BRUCE PENINSULA

URL2: MUNICIPALITY OF NORTHERN BRUCE PENINSULA BY-LAW

CabinBuilder
Admin
# Posted: 28 Dec 2011 16:19 - Edited by: CabinBuilder
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Quoting: MtnDon
Zoning and other laws work both ways; an impediment to some and a protection to others. Sometimes the same person but at different times.

Well said.

---

I don't want to be misunderstood - I am not against the rules, however I think many forum members - including me - will find many aspects of By-Laws a bit too restrictive for "the enjoyment of our property". (And I can speak only regarding situation in Ontario).

Unfortunately, as with many other issues in life - similarly to taxes, privacy issues, industry regulations, etc., - it creeps up. Over-regulation is a slippery slope, impeding growth, productivity, creativity and freedoms - once a rule/(by-)law is implemented, it never rolls back, even if later found unreasonable.

bushbunkie
Member
# Posted: 28 Dec 2011 16:44
Reply 


Hi MtnDon,
Don't worry, you won't be vilified:)
I would always agree that there has to be some rules to follow, but it seems they have gone a little nuts in Ontario. Unless your willing to build a second home (out of my $$ range) on your property anywhere, the only alternative is to get outside the zoning area, which means a minimum 7 - 8 hour drive for most of us...and in that case, it wouldn't be worth it for me because I'd never get there. I would like to see a "graduated system", where, as long as your improving your property over time (by the municipalitie's standards, of course), you can enjoy you're property...this is how it was done here years ago...it was the only way my folks got ahead and kept the dream accessible to many who were plugging away and trying to get ahead.
I would be happy to pay a little increase in tax...but it's all or nothing which puts the dream out of reach unless you are upper middle class in Ontario...that is the unfortunate part.

soundandfurycabin
Member
# Posted: 28 Dec 2011 19:00
Reply 


Fedup, what is the zoning for your property?

I glanced through the bylaw and it seems to me that RU1 and RU2 zones allow either a "cottage dwelling" or a "detached dwelling", while the R2 zone permits a "cottage dwelling". The definitions of those are nearly identical, however there is no min size specified anywhere that I saw for a "cottage dwelling".

In addition, when a cottage dwelling is permitted then you are also allowed to have a "private guest cabin" of up to 250 sqft.

-----------------------------------------

iv) "COTTAGE DWELLING" means a detached building, which may be occupied on a seasonal basis, used for and containing only one dwelling unit, which is designed and/or constructed for year round human habitation.
v) "DETACHED DWELLING" means a separate building designed for and containing only one dwelling unit and constructed for year round human habitation.

"GUEST CABIN", "PRIVATE GUEST CABIN" means an accessory detached building or structure to a maximum of one storey in height without kitchen and/or washroom facilities and maintained for the accommodation of non paying guests having a maximum ground floor area of 23.2 m (249.7 ft ).

6.3.8 Private Guest Cabin
Notwithstanding any other provisions of this By-law to the contrary, one Private Guest Cabin may be erected and used on the same lot as a cottage dwelling, provided such private Guest Cabin complies with the yard and setback requirements of the zone in which such building or structure is situated.

medro
# Posted: 7 Feb 2013 19:57
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problem is us, and our lack of ivolvement in the decisions of these local municipalities, they are now making by-laws to stop everyone from doing exactly what they did.Most of them started out with trailers and such.these municipal councils make up thousands of by-laws each year and in doing so, take away your freedom. "you know" NO NOISE, NO CAMPFIRE, NO SINGING, NO LAUGHING, this is a world wide movement called AGENDA 21 check it out! I live in a small town and recently a Planner and council passed a by-law that would only allow for One Style of House design, they decided that they Would decide for all the town residents the house design we could all live in,well we orginized and stopped them cold! Freedom is not given it has to be taken! good luck

TheCabinCalls
Member
# Posted: 8 Feb 2013 15:59
Reply 


We went through this pain...dead ends, different answers and definitions every time we turned around. All I can say is read the fine print before you pay a dime.

That said...there is no use fighting this. You won't win. They have their rules and their own ready to vote you down. Unless you have a lawyer that says otherwise, don't waste your time, because you'll just end up making enemies and regretting your purchase. My recommendation from experience is to enjoy your land with day trips. Make nice with everyone you encounter. Eventually they will leave you be and you will find ways to increase your usage.

Find ways to enjoy your land and forget about the rest.

BTW- I totally agree that regulations kill the joy and purpose of the land's existence. I do see that they are trying to protect the interest of those that have invested...and a little to do with environment. It is sad, because most on here would do better by the land than even the bylaws require and yet we are treated like outlaws.

mitchet
Member
# Posted: 1 Mar 2016 12:13
Reply 


north bruce pennisula do not want growth and development, if they had it there way it would be all county forest, and park lands up there (tree huggers). i own land on inland lake up there. i have no road to my property, there for under 6.15 of the bylaw i am not aloud to build any structures whats so ever on my land. i tried to fight it by saying boat access should be a reasonable means of access. i mean boat access is a standard that is in place across the whole province. NOT IN NORTH BRUCE ... get this though ...if you have a island u can get a permit, but because im attatched to the mainland i cant get a permit without a road, not just a road ...but a municipal road...lol. i garentee if you want to do something north bruce will have a bylaw against it, they have every angle covered ...almost...and i mean almost! be! by the way ever thought of maybe issuing a building permit and just slowly starting a cottage on your property...you can;t be stopped using your trailer if your under construction, read the bylaws on that! just renew your permit each year! i agree i wouldnt buy any land up there, the rules are crazzy. and they will just keep adding more and more as the years go on. my answer from the building department was if you dont like it, we will take your land of your hands and get rid of your problems!!!

neb
Member
# Posted: 1 Mar 2016 12:29
Reply 


I hear what you are saying and I see both side of the story. What needs to done is to make easy not hard but some rules need to be in place like the others have said.

We own the land but everyone else tells us what we can do with the land. lol

bldginsp
Member
# Posted: 1 Mar 2016 15:43
Reply 


If you look on the map at the Northern Bruce Peninsula, it should be no surprise why they have such restrictive rules. It's the nicest rural real estate within easy driving distance of the Toronto area, which has a high population.

If you drive directly east of San Francisco to the Sierra Mountains in Central California, you first encounter Placer County in the foothills and then the Lake Tahoe area up at elevation. This is the easiest part of the Sierras to get to from the SF bay area, the real estate is expensive and the rules pretty restrictive. Think I heard that Placer County charges $30-50,000 in permit fees to build a house. Yuck.

But go another two hour drive north to the Lassen area (where I am) and the only restrictive zoning laws are found in the lakefront real estate areas. Where I am, in the boonies, the building department let me know that they are somewhat lax on some aspects of zoning rules (but not structural rules).

Location location location.

timcook
Member
# Posted: 2 Mar 2016 10:21
Reply 


Time to take back whats yours, i say throw that 5th wheel camper on and enjoy

timcook
Member
# Posted: 2 Mar 2016 10:22
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You could walk around naked as well

old243
Member
# Posted: 2 Mar 2016 15:37
Reply 


fedup, how did the municipality , know what your plans were. The first thing in the spring I would gate and lock your lane , whether you are there or not. I doubt that the bylaw officer , or anyone else , will then trespass on your property. You could post the property , but probably better not. I'm south in Grey I would build a privy , in the trees. park your trailer there , just don't make it look permanent , till you see if there will be a problem. Enjoy your property, If you keep a low profile, and don't aggravate any neighbors, likely they will forget about you . old243

MtnDon
Member
# Posted: 2 Mar 2016 18:24
Reply 


Ya'll realize this thread started in 2011 and went dead for a loooong time.....

old243
Member
# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 14:54
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Don didn.t notice that. He has likely resolved his problems by now. old243

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 20:35
Reply 


I would say if it cant be used for recreational usage, I would apply for a timber clear cutting permit, log the entire thing off, take the earnings, buy functional/usable land. Replant with thistles, blackberries and cottonwood trees. Other option is to let you build a small cabin or use your trailer on it.

Don_P
Member
# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 20:58 - Edited by: Don_P
Reply 


what's a slight pause in the conversatation

Not too far from the truth...
A neighbor asked me to rebuild the old log springhouse on their property. I applied for an ag exempt permit, denied, Dept of environmental quality called, talk of the army corps... this is a little spring I'm working to move the cows away from. Finally the landowner has had enough, decides he will probably never come back, is logging and will plant Christmas trees, which get sprayed with herbicides and pesticides... that get into the creek. I'm sure glad they're on our side.

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 4 Mar 2016 10:21
Reply 


In short, sounds like they want either full time residence or no one there at all.

Don_P
Member
# Posted: 4 Mar 2016 12:06
Reply 


They don't think that deeply. Just each bureaucrat doing his job until the little guy they are supposed to be serving decides it isn't worth it. That then ripples through a small local economy. Instead of finding a win-win, everyone loses. Well, the bureaucrats got paid right on time.

Silverstar
Member
# Posted: 26 Jul 2016 10:59
Reply 


Hi don, Toyota and old243,
I was looking into purchasing a lot on the west side of the northern Bruce. Thanks to your posts, I quickly learned that I cannot park my camper there or temporarily have a bunkie without building a proper dwelling. What is the best way to make certain I can build what I would like to build. (A four season cottage, about 1100 square feet. ). (Contact the municipality? Do you have any other advice?

timcook
Member
# Posted: 26 Jul 2016 11:40
Reply 


Sounds like some sort of like HOA you have to follow ??? A few years back im almost bought this other property, and they told me no camping no trailers no mobile home can be placed, you must build only. Long story short got my money back and moved on to find a slice of heven with a little cabin on it and now you cant get me to leave lol. Good luck to you i hope it works out and you can fight those greasy bastards

bushbunkie
Member
# Posted: 27 Jul 2016 07:51
Reply 


Hi silverstar,
I am on the Bruce around Lions Head. started with a Bunkie 5 years ago, even though it was illegal according to bylaw, went for it anyway.
We have now built a thousand sq foot cabin, which we will be working on in the next five years. Check out my thread
"100 sq. ft Bunkie on the Bruce Penninsula" if you want more details of our journey. Our rules in Ontario are much different than US rules. If you want to build, they tell you what and where, starting with your septic system first. Minimum build is 1000 sq ft.
Cheers!
Dave

Steve_S
Member
# Posted: 27 Jul 2016 09:46
Reply 


The spread of Urbanites is spreading the disease of Urbanity and the related idiocies that go with it... Anyone seeking freedom from the insanity must seek it at a distance from the "red zone". Red Zone meaning any area that has been subjected to Urban Toxicity of over regulation, restrictions and enforced uniform "sheepleness".

Then they (the herd) ask are we & others trying to escape to areas where sanity remains ? Thank Goodness there are still safe haven's out here...

Roblyn
Member
# Posted: 21 Sep 2016 13:29 - Edited by: Roblyn
Reply 


Hello Bushbunkie.
New to the forum, thanks for having me. I regularly stay up by Stokes Bay and I am putting a bid in shortly on some land with two existing bunkies on it nearer to Tobermory. No septic, no running water no Hydro. Any advice? I want to put in a composting toilet and have hot water. I'm thinking panels and a backup gen for power. The lot has a site cleared for a future dwelling and a laneway from the road. Hydro at road too. Am I going to run into problems? apologies if this has been answered elsewhere, i looked at the site and I didn't see anything about existing bunkies and the by laws.

Cheers.

Roblyn
Member
# Posted: 21 Sep 2016 13:30
Reply 


Oh yes, I want to put in a shipping container home - eventually!

bushbunkie
Member
# Posted: 22 Sep 2016 07:44
Reply 


Hi Roblyn,
Yes, I have seen the property online for a few months.
Because it has two existing bunkies , you might be able to stay under the radar for a bit if neighbours don't complain. You will definitely run into problems if you want to put up a shipping container home (illegal), as this will start a process once you apply for the permit. You will have to put in a full septic system and the municipality will tell you how big the dwelling has to be (minimum 1000sq ft), the type of foundation, when they expect you to finish it, etc. They have new bylaw enforcement officers who are now operating by the book, doing fly overs with photos to look for illegal builds, etc. They will make you tear out structures. Perhaps the reason the folks are now selling is because someone already complained and they are now on the municipalities radar. This summer for the first time ever I was sitting on the porch of our cabin and mpac pulled up to assess the property now to increase our taxes. Be careful, get to know your neighbours, become friends and don't piss off anyone ...and definitely don't let your teenagers go up with their friends to party for a weekend!!!

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 23 Sep 2016 00:04 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
Reply 


Boy, sounds like a police state. I would never buy land there. That may be their intent too. Too bad.

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