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Smawgunner
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# Posted: 10 Dec 2013 19:12
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Ok...so let me get this straight. Waaaaay back say in the early 1800's, the original owner..we'll call him "A" was approached by entrepreneur we'll call "B" and bought the mineral rights from "A". Meanwhile, "B" found an oil company..we'll call "C" and leased those rights. Fast forward 100 years and "C" still drills on the land, but "B" has since died by the rights were inherited by a great great great grandson "D". So there HAS to be a signed lease between oil company "C" and mineral rights owner "D". Me, the current land owner is trying to find out what the lease has written in it. Now the true story comes into play. I call oil company "C' and ask to see the lease. They tell me I'd have to go to the courthouse because the lease was written so long ago they don't have a copy. SAY WHAT? Why is it so hard to get a copy of the mineral rights? The company that has the well on my property doesn't have a copy of the lease they have with the original mineral rights owner? What am I missing?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 10 Dec 2013 20:31
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Quoting: Smawgunner What am I missing?
Your own lawyer.
Mineral rights and the leasing of them can be very murky ground.
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Kudzu
Member
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# Posted: 10 Dec 2013 20:31
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There probably is not a lease from D to C. The original lease from B to C is probably what is holding all the land under lease. If B leased to C and production was discovered under all or a portion of the leased acreage, all of it would be held by Production (HBP). D is probably receiving royalty payments under B lease. Now without knowing all the facts I can't guarantee any of the above, but I would guess I am close. If it is HBP, there is a lease of record from B or D, you just have to go find it.
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 10 Dec 2013 20:41 - Edited by: turkeyhunter
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TITLE SEARCH answers ALL question on mineral rights...back in the 80's I bought a 5 acres that some company in CA owned mineral rights for MICA...which they never use anymore ...it was a old mica mine on property...I sold it a couple years later...sold the property AS IS-Where is...could never get a clean title ....so I sold ...but made a few $$$ ...so I was happy...guy still lives on the property I sold it to.
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RidgeRunner
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2013 00:31
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Kudzu has it right (or close).
You'll also want to know (or I hope you'll want to know) the status of the surface rights. Ain't nothing quite like a big D9 bulldozer showing up unexpected and ready to wreak destructive havoc without your consent or ability to stop it!!!!!! Yikes!!!!!
Personally, I'd turn and run away from anything that isn't obviously clear when it comes to property rights!!!
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Smawgunner
Member
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2013 18:55
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Thanks for the replies...but here is what baffles me. We currently have a gas well on the property which has been there since the 70s. It produces little. I've spoken to the company. But the company can't operate without knowing themselves who they're leasing from correct? I find it hard to believe that the company does not have a signed contract from the mineral rights owners allowing them to drill.
So if I ask them, "what gives you the right to be drilling here", they have to back their answer up with documentation right???
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Kudzu
Member
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2013 21:20
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If they were nice they could probably answer all your questions, however, they don't have to. Most states have online records that can be looked at thru the Oil and Gas Board website. Not sure where you are located, but you can probably get the details on the well located on your property by looking it up in the files by Section, Township and Range. Find out when the well was drilled, go to the land records office in your County Courthouse and search by the date or the owners name during that period and you should be able to find the lease of record. If you have problems, be nice but loud, take a couple people with you and start pulling books and taking up space, someone will help you just to get you out, works every time. 
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Smawgunner
Member
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2013 21:26
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LOL...thanks kudzu...the frustrating part is our state of ohio has an online system of all wells and this one is not on it.
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Truecabin
Member
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2013 00:02
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gate the road tell them nobody has shown you any documents
open the gate after they produce documents and after you had a lawyer look them over
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2013 00:37
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Quoting: Truecabin gate the road
The potential problem with that is when/if they do produce the proper documentation you get to pay them for all the lost time for whatever they were stopped from doing. That could be 10's of thousands of dollars a day. You could get hit with costs you'd need to sell the land to come up with the funds.
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Kudzu
Member
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2013 08:27
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Smawgunner, a typical Oil and Gas Mineral Lease (OGML) gives the Lessee (company) the right to drill, lay pipeline, etc. Yes, they can do this without the consent of the landowner. There are probably restrictions on how close to existing structures they can drill. They also have to pay the landowner for damage (timber, crops, etc.) If you don't own your minerals (Oil and Gas rights) you never will, unless you buy them back from the current owner and the odds of that happening are nill to none. The best thing you can do is try to work with the company that holds the lease and has the drilling rights. Most companies will discuss well locations, road placement, pipelines, etc. with the landowner and hopefully reach a mutual agreement on locations for surface operations. Good Luck
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Smawgunner
Member
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2013 13:49
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I'm not looking for any legal action or anything like that. That well has never produced much and appears to be at least 30 years old so I'm not concerned about any new activity. I'm just curious what is in the lease. I would think a company that is leasing ANYTHING should have documentation. 
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Truecabin
Member
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2013 16:37 - Edited by: Truecabin
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if theres no activity gate the road
if there in the middle of using the well you might have a problem like don said
when they come out to inspect the well then they can contact you and produce the documents and you can discuss the gate too
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Kudzu
Member
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2013 20:43
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If you are in the Marcellus Shale play, you will have new activity on your property, be nice and they might be nice.
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countrydan
Member
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2013 18:27 - Edited by: countrydan
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I had mineral rights on my land that I recently purchased with my wife, leased to someone in the Ford family many years back. The county building had them all on file. They were from 1930-1945 or so. In Michigan, where we own, the mineral leases dont last forever. They expire after so many years of inactivity. Before our purchase I emailed the "lease expert" at the oil/Nat gas company that held the rights to our minerals and he said thet the lease was old and not enforceable and they are no longer interested as our property didnt yield anything. The bank was happy with that email exchange and gave us a warranty deed for the mineral rights also (because of the age of the leases and inactivity they may of had to anyway not sure)..
So you need to call your county and get copies of the leases they have on file(they will have everything on file) .. You can get your rights back but you may need a lawyer as we used a lawyer to help.
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old greybeard
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# Posted: 27 Dec 2013 15:25
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Also be aware that not all mineral rights sales are written the same. They can specify how deep the rights are and for what. Might be a chance you own the Marcellus rights. Might be worth paying for a title search
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