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SkookumMagoo
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# Posted: 25 Aug 2019 16:55
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hey guys, hows it all going. just found this site, but the idea for my cabin came to me finally and i am beginning my design stage.
a little about me, i live in washington state and have spent the last 12 years repairing yachts, marine diesel engines, and commercial fishing in the back country of Alaska, so needless to say i have definatley seen my fair share of cabins and off grid living.... now it is my turn to have some of that life.
i own an acre and a half up in the cascade mountains about 15 minutes from a ski area which is pretty sweet, but makes building tricky because not only do you have to contend with the snow in the winter, it is washington, and i am only at about 1500 foot elevation so it can snow one week, and then rain for the following 2 weeks which makes the roof load extra wet and soggy because it will saturate the snow, slow melt, then freeze, and repeat.
my building requirements/restrictions for where im at are pretty simple. no more than 200sqr foot, 24 inch max roof overhangs, and decks above 30 inches need a permit. pretty basic, considering there is not a height restriction (hint hint)
the idea is to build something overly solid that will be around for many years, for something to come back to and always have. i have a sailboat and work in the islands, and it is about 110 miles to my property one way, which makes daily commuting impracticably difficult considering i drive a lifted jeep wrangler that gets about 14mpg on the highway, however, the log term goal is to live on my boat 4 nights a week in the town i work in, and spend the rest of the time in the mountains
anyway... perhaps you are catching my drift now... 200sqr ft base, no height restriction, so big loft, and solid.
im envisioning a 10x20 with a 10x10 loft with standing headroom (im 6ft so, id like at least 2 more feet above me. essentially HALF a steep pitch A-frame
https://www.pinuphouses.com/small-lake-house-plans/
this link provides the closest thing i can find to a basic example, although the dimensions arent exact, it gives a rough idea of the shape, that roof is 24 foot i think and i figure 18 at the peak is more than enough for my needs. 8 foot lower level ceiling, 10 foot ceiling at the top with steep pitch roof...
ok great, just go to the hardware store and lumber yard, and start buying wood, right?
im too much of a hippy for that (gun loving hippy to be specific), but a hippy none the less.....
big boulder stone fireplace, vertical log construction for the sides, heavy duty log frame, and cord-wood cob for the walls is what im thinking
no matter how broke i get, we all know you can always scrounge up some concrete or adobe and a truckload of firewood, which is the other thing im working on is the budget for this
id love to hear the pros and cons of my building idea. i will try to post pics of what im thinking and designing as i go, as i can build a sailboat, fix a diesel engine, and drive a small ship, but ive never built anything on land, so, the thing im having a hard time with is the concept of a fondation and the hows and whats of getting a frame put up
ultimately i want to not have to pay full price for anything and to go to the store as little as possible, not because i cant afford it, but because the vibe i want to put into this building is using whats natural and available. for example the firewood im considering using for the cord wood walls and what not i plan on salvaging. here in Washington we have had some pretty extensive forest fires in past years and there is ALOT of harvest-able timber still just laying around, and the Department of Natural Resources has wood cutting permits available, so, the idea of scrounging the wood from burn sites appeals immensely because its reusing whats there.
that leads me to another question and that would be log choice. being a smaller structure, would burn site lodge-pole pines be an okay building material? i know the wood is soft, but the price would be right.
id also plan on doing masonry floors, possibly with a coil ran through the fireplace/woodstove for heated stone floors.
i have alot of ideas to cram into this tiny space... however my current house is 380sqr ft, so, 200ft lower and 100upper makes for only 80 less square feet than what i already have.
also, this building will not have plumbing or a bathroom or anything, it will be a small kitchenette with a refillable gravity fed water tap for a small sink, coleman propane stove, galley counter, small 2 seat table, large sitting area with overly large stone fireplace, and a loft. the function will be a place to sleep, sit, and relax, and i am doubting i will even have electricity in my main living cabin as i dont feel the need for it.
i am limited to 200sqr foot PER building, but have no rules on how many buildings i can have, so ultimatley, there will be a detached semi modern kitchen, and a full service 200sqr ft bathroom with wood-fired stone tub/sauna.
i have a well on site, and power, along with a few sheds and a converted truck box off an old delivery truck for a small 130sqr ft cabin while i build everything else, so, ive already started alot of the projects, just havent had the vision until now for the main cabin
i hope i didnt confuse the heck out of everybody but id love some input into all of this!
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SkookumMagoo
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# Posted: 25 Aug 2019 16:56
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forgot to say that a philosophy i have is not what can you buy at the store, but what can you do with the stuff you have laying around, and log, stone, cord-wood, and recycled materials really has its appeal
really curious about salvaging burn-site wood though
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hueyjazz
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# Posted: 26 Aug 2019 11:44
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really curious about salvaging burn-site wood though
If the wood has any charring or residue from fire it will stink forever. Been in houses that had small fire and were rebuilt. That stink never leaves no matter what you do.
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 26 Aug 2019 17:06
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1. Quoting: SkookumMagoo big boulder stone fireplace
2. Cordwood walls. Any wood boring insects?
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 26 Aug 2019 18:30
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Quoting: SkookumMagoo you have to contend with the snow in the winter, it is washington
There is a webpage with WA state snow loads available. It's made by a professional engineer/architect using offical state info. Find your location, click on it, wait a few secs and the lower left of the map shows the ground snow load, which is what should be used for roof design.
http://design.medeek.com/resources/snow/washingtongroundsnowloads.html
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 26 Aug 2019 18:48 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: SkookumMagoo i am limited to 200sqr foot PER building, but have no rules on how many buildings i can have, so ultimatley, there will be a detached semi modern kitchen, and a full service 200sqr ft bathroom with wood-fired stone tub/sauna.
Caution.... You are not the first and certainly will not be the last person who MAY be confused about what you may have read about when building permits are required. The rules will have a section that lists when a permit is NOT required. The square footage can vary by county or municipal area, from 120 to 400 sq ft. Read carefully. The wording "accessory building" frequently is used. That nmeans in addition to a properly permitted larger residence.
One sample (Seattle) is... "A one-story detached accessory building such as a greenhouse, tool or storage shed, playhouse, or similar building if the projected roof area is less than 120 square feet and the building foundation is only a slab on the ground" does not need a permit
Another (Thurston county)... here's a link to their PDF about when a permit is not needed........ https://w" as well as other limits to use.ww.co.thurston.wa.us/permitting/docs/exempt-building-bulletin.pdf That spells out "Not used for human habitation" as well as other limits to use.
Anyhow there are variations on that everywhere. There may also be some locations where you do not have those limitations. Before you spend much time planning you should verify if what you want to do needs a permit or not. If you build without a permit in this day of aerial mapping you will likely be found at some point. After the fact forgiveness is sometimes possible, sometimes not.
Verify and good luck.
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SkookumMagoo
Member
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# Posted: 26 Aug 2019 21:22
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Yeah ive read the rules a few times.... Neighbors even have 200sqr ft cabins with an upstairs no permit... From what I could find, I think I'm in the clear.
Gonna just go with it. Private property and im a soverign individual anyways 
Besides this idea for a cabin has been on the mind for a few years now and the design I like finally came to me so here we are...
As far as the large stone fireplace and cordwood/plaster construction, wouldnt that take forever to heat up but once hot retain alot of the heat? Almost like a rocket mass heater?
Im kind of going for minimalistic and traditional scandinavian-esque anyway
I am also considering a small woodstove like the cubic mini or marine diesel cook stove like a Dickinson for quick heat and fixin snacks.... I dont mind getting up in the middle of the night to mess with the fire. To me the point of a cabin is to not be overly comfortable but to be reminded you are in the woods and only a few steps above camping (then again my camping tent is 12x12 with a woodstove). For a part time residence the less is more philosophy has a ton of appeal. Besides my girlfriend is onboard for primitive, she used to live in a tipi if thats any indication.
Back to wood and logs and insects.... Im gonna build in the mountains.... Of course there are bugs. Carpenter ants for certain but proper maintence should keep them away no?
This is all informative and i appreciate it all because im a boat guy. Not a house guy so things like the above mention help a lot
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 26 Aug 2019 21:30
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Quoting: SkookumMagoo As far as the large stone fireplace and cordwood/plaster construction, wouldnt that take forever to heat up but once hot retain alot of the heat?
Have you ever stayed in a log cabin in winter? A log cabin that is not heated or used for at least a week? When used on a weekend basis, a fire started Friday afternoon, they often don't get truly comfortable until Sunday. On the other hand, once warmed up it does not require a lot of fire to keep it nice inside.
YMMV
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SkookumMagoo
Member
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# Posted: 26 Aug 2019 22:40 - Edited by: SkookumMagoo
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16.02.240 Permits - Work exempt from permit. Section 105.2 of the International Building Code is not adopted and the following is substituted:
Work exempt from permit (IBC 105.2). A building permit shall not be required for the following:
Building:
1. One-story detached one and two family residential accessory buildings used as tool and storage sheds, playhouses, tree supported structures used for play and similar uses, not including garages or other buildings used for vehicular storage, provided the floor area does not exceed 200 square feet (11.15 m2) provided that the roof overhang does not exceed twenty-four inches measured horizontally from the exterior wall.
STORY IN HEIGHT: Any story having its finished floor surface entirely above grade plane, except that a basement shall be considered a story where:
1. The finished surface of the floor above the basement is more than 6 feet above grade plane; or
2. The finished surface of the floor above the basement is more than 12 feet above the finished ground level at any point: or
3. The basement has more than 60% of the perimeter wall framing comprised of studs greater than 36 inches in length. (Ord. 15802 § 36, 2007).
can somebody help me with that?
sounds to me like 200sqr ft with no roof peak limits, as long as the "loft" is "Unfinished" like... a big sheet of plywood not nailed down....
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SkookumMagoo
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# Posted: 26 Aug 2019 22:42
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Quoting: ICC i have not. honestly haven't had many opportunities on the contrary, my hunting tents stove usually only holds coals 5 hours or so, and we hunt in the winter time, im not afraid of cold, also considering the trailer i have on property has a wood stove and is un-insulated... i have plenty of wool blankets and down sleeping bags its an experiment, i have my motivations, but, it will be an experience and thats the whole point; to escape the normal comforts and be unplugged. if its too cold and it sucks, well, i know of plenty of good heat sources... i wanna try oldschool first unless its really really really that bad
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SkookumMagoo
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# Posted: 26 Aug 2019 23:24
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i know fireplaces are really inefficient but in something of this size, can it really be that miserable?
i honestly remember the a-frame cabin i grew up in, we would blaze both the fireplace and woodstove full blast in the winter and that the fireplace was great for zone heating in the living room but there was also a large brick hearth meant to draw heat in from the bottom and out through the vents in the top, it was A LOT bigger than 200sqr foot but... the back rooms and the loft tended to be kinda chilly
i am here to learn!!!
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Aklogcabin
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2019 09:34 - Edited by: Aklogcabin
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Welcome Skookum. Your doing the right thing and asking questions. Stay positive and keep a good attitude. You will get plenty of suggestions to watch out for codes. More government.
As far as heating 200 sq/ ft. Should be no problem with a fireplace. Our log cabin heats up easily. If you want to try a fireplace go ahead and try. You only have time and a few bucks to loose if it doesn’t work out.
I would suggest that you stick to your dream. You have a vision of what you, you want. And it is a cabin. Glad to see others getting out and trying.
Also I would not be afraid of using the charred trees. Peel them and see what they look like. Maybe even peel a bit off before you cut one down to check it. But probably only charred on the bark. Depending on how hot the fire was . As you wrote, lots of free resources if they are on public land. And you would be helping out the landowner if on private land.
My advice, do your research. Looks like you have. Then go figure it out. Don’t be discouraged by folks who, I suspect are only trying to help but seem to demand that you follow their advice or only use the equipment they use or suggest.
Do you have any pics of your property? And
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Atlincabin
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2019 09:42
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Quoting: SkookumMagoo Work exempt from permit (IBC 105.2). A building permit shall not be required for the following: Building: 1. One-story detached one and two family residential accessory buildings
Sounds to me like you will need a permit if this is the primary "residence." You can only build without a permit as an "accessory" building, which implies there is an existing primary residence. If you want to be clear, go visit the local building office and ask.
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aktundra
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2019 20:00
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Go for it!
You got the land and a dream ! I love building ant the cabin and just seeing what I can create.
Worth a shot with the wood. I know some “fire dried†wood people built a cabin out of. It was more dried out but definitely charred.
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SkookumMagoo
Member
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# Posted: 28 Aug 2019 14:29
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Any flaws with the overall design concept???
Ill try to sketch up some ideas tonight for a post.... Mind you it will be hand drawn
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 28 Aug 2019 14:40
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To me, the biggest flaw is that the way the roof is oriented all the snow dumps on the porch area.
Personally, I do not like lofts at all as they are always too warm if the main level is comfortable. Not to mention the impediment to headroom when the ceiling is mostly, or entirely, a steep pitch.
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aktundra
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# Posted: 28 Aug 2019 18:30
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I'm on the other side... I love lofts. But you need to plan them right - with window(s) for airflow.
I would figure out what you need and want for your place. Like ICC mentioned, we all have our preferences.
LOFT - In a small space, a loft gives you that much more room. A bed takes a lot of floor space and in a 200sq ft place gets cozy on the ground floor. I like my sleeping loft I built with a dormer - a ton of head room! It looks like the plan you have has enough head room, but that is a very tall plan at 24' for such a small footprint.
SNOW - I do like the shed roof cabins, but agree you want the snow falling away from the deck. Also, a covered overhang by the door is super nice. I like a covered porch just because it really expands a tiny place during the rainy seasons. A porch is almost another room - without adding to your 200sq ft restriction.
OPEN - I find the more open, the bigger a place feels. If you need both lofts, I would go for it, otherwise I would keep one side of the place open.
Fireplace - I think the Dickinson would heat a 200 sq ft place just fine. But I do think it's going to take a while to heat up given the height of the cabin.
I recommend sketching out your ideas, building a model or sketchup. Get a feel for the space and size.
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Tworist
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# Posted: 3 Oct 2023 13:02
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Your house idea sounds amazing! I love the idea of using natural materials and reclaimed wood and think a stone fireplace would be a great accent in this space.
Here are some thoughts on your design:
Foundation: For a 200 square foot cabin, you can probably get by with a simple concrete slab foundation. However, if you will have a heavy masonry fireplace, you may want to consider a stronger foundation such as a post and beam foundation.
Frame: Log frame is an excellent choice for a rustic cabin. You can use salvaged logs from burn sites or purchase new logs from a lumber yard. If you use salvaged logs, be sure to carefully inspect them for damage and rot.
Cord Cob Walls: Cord cob walls are a great way to build thick, insulated walls. However, they can take a long time to make and require careful maintenance. If you're not familiar with pavers construction, I recommend doing a little research before you get started. Wall decoration can be done using peel-and-stick murals, it will look cool.
Roof: A steeply pitched roof is a good choice for a mountain cabin as it will help keep out snow and rain. You can use metal roofing, shingles, or even shingles.
Loft: A loft is a great way to save space in a small cabin. Be sure to build your attic stairs so that they are safe and easy to climb.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 3 Oct 2023 15:11
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Oh yeah hey, how about those 'peel and stick murals'!
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2023 08:07 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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SkookumMagoo, with the first part of your name tells me you may not live to far away from me.
Great place to collect all the info, sharp crowd we have here.
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