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Nobadays
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# Posted: 31 May 2019 10:20
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Moved up to the cabin about a week ago. The satellite internet guys showed up a day later and got us all hooked up with Viasat. On their lowest plan but that is 40gb/month unlimited. Meaning we get up to 40gb no throttle, then if you exceed that you will be throttled back in peak hours. We download things to watch from Prime when in town then stream it to the TV. Got 10gb on cell plan we never go through so hey...we'll make it work. Best part is our phones will work via wifi... as long as the generator is on!
Got all the bits and will start putting our 1500 watt solar system together over the next couple of weeks. No hurry as my son in law can't be here until the end of June to help put the panels on the roof. The down side of living in an Aspen forest on a slope, no good place but the roof for the panels.
Been fighting freezing the water system... got fix that for good! Right now there is a 550 gallon cistern about 20' east of the cabin and the previous owner has it all rigged with garden hose - covered with foam insulation - from the tank to an insulated box that sits by the cabin holding a 12v battery and Shurflo pump. A small solar panel keeps that battery charged. From the pump more hose hooks to a main valve sticking out of the side of the cabin. All of this is covered in foam insulation. However it's still getting into the 20's some nights and we figured out at about 24-25*F it will still freeze up. So no water until about 10am. Last night it was 29* and it didn't freeze.
I think the fix is to first insulate the perimeter of the crawlspace with spray foam (cabin is on piers with tin around the perimeter) then put a 325 gallon tank sitting right on the ground under the cabin, then move the pump under there as well. A 325 gallon pickup bed type tank looks like it would fit with the height restrictions. Maybe spray foam the outside of that tank for a bit more insurance. Insulate all the new plumbing really well (the existing pipes are well insulated) and set up some kind of interconnect from the outside tank to the crawlspace tank for summer. Oh and a full pipe so I can pump water into it during early spring and fall, and winter if we decide to stay up here.
Your thoughts? Experience?
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 31 May 2019 11:17
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nothing in regards to your setup as such.
In regards to downloading movies , videos etc and IF your a windows user. I use a software called youtubeDLFrontEnd (link) which is a Graphical frontend for youtube-dl (link)
This software let's you download streaming videos not only from YouTube but some 500+ other sites / services so that you can view them later. This is actually faster & more efficient than streaming files and really cuts down on the kilobytes as there is no CRC checking required like there is with streaming.
I'm using XPlorNet going through the Hughes EchoStar network, they had me on ViaSat before the big change over, so I learned to keep my data usage lower... As a result, I haven't suffered "throttling".
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hueyjazz
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# Posted: 31 May 2019 12:03
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Insulation only slows a temperature change between two environments. If no heat is added to system then the pipes and tank will still freeze if ambient is below freezing point.
It does take longer for a mass to give up all it's heat so the 325 gallon tank would take longer to freeze than pipes. If tank is buried then you have the heat of ground that will protect it. Go deep enough with piping and it won't freeze either until it's above frost line.
Moving water also doesn't freeze.
When I had your setup I had an Amazon Prime account that would allow me to download movies to a Fire that I could then play back to my TV. I also got a decent antenna that would allow me to grab distant over the air TV. of course being on top of a mountain assisted with the range I was capable of.
But mostly we sat on front porch and took in the show nature played for us. We have a nightly ritual of cocktails on porch. Once a bear walked right by. My wife totally missed it. Are you sure it was a bear???? No honey, it was a very fat raccoon. Yes, I'm sure it was a bear which explain the large footprint and large pile he left us.
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 31 May 2019 14:38
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Steve... thanks for the link! I will check it out.
Huey.... I know at least one neighbor who has a water set up like I explained. Even at -30 outside his crawlspace has never reached freezing temps. His is insulated with 4" closed cell foam... why I was thinking spray foam. His floor isn't insulated and he figures between the heat loss through the floor and what ground heat there is keeps it above freezing in the crawlspace.
All that said... if no heat in the house, yep I agree it would all eventually freeze up. If it were possible to bury the tank that would be great but.... not in this ground.
Thanks
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MountainSurf
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# Posted: 31 May 2019 23:48
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When I first bought my cabin, I battled this every dec and jan. My solution is not putting water in the pipes unless the cabin has been heated for half a day or if outside temp didnt get in 20s for too long. A normal pacific storm would have a constant temp in mid to upper 20s so water not a problem. Arctic air mass is a whole different story. Others things I have done add heat cables and wrap pipes with fiberglass and plastic. I sealed entire foundation wall. It came with lots of gaps and wholes! Good luck!
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2019 08:18
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MountainSurf.... we are at 9500' in Colorado not much chance of it not staying below freezing in the winter here... yep it will be a continual problem I'm afraid. Not hooked to the grid so heat tapes are out....
My neighbor says his has never froze but he is here all winter with a fire burning. We have been considering staying through the winter - caretaker job is open, get paid for living in your cabin! - but don't want to be "camping out" for 5-6 months with no running water.
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MountainSurf
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2019 09:17
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If I was at 9500 ft in my location, there would still be 6ft of snow! My neighbor is year round too and just continually feeds his wood stove. No propane heater. He does fine. Other neighbors had frozen plumbing this winter and will be working this summer! Lots of good posts and contributors here so you should come across something.
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2019 09:40
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"If I was at 9500 ft in my location, there would still be 6ft of snow!" We actually had a good snow year here, altogether about 5' of snow. Where our cabin is located is on a south facing slope so the snow hoes off earliest here. We can look across the canyon and there is still plenty of snow on the north slopes! Tried to drive to the nearest little community yesterday but got stopped by snow drifts about 3 miles short and and only a little over a mile from the top of the ridge. Couple more weeks!
One of the guys on here uses what looks like a 55 gallon white plastic drum mounted next to th he ceiling in his cabin for winter. We talked to about putting maybe a 100 gallon tank in the loft.... that is still on the table. The sewer vent and gas water heater vent pipe run up through the edge of the loft... about mid way across. This is boxed in and would be a natural place to open up and run the water lines down through... could splice in to the cold side of the water heater piping and put the pressure pump upstairs too. It's just getting water up there that poses the problem. I could plumb a pipe outside to pump through but then worried about a possible overflow mess if we weren't extremely carefwhen filling.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2019 16:57
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When my husband was a little boy in the 1940's in Northern Ontario it was his job to go down to the lake in the winter to get water.
He had a ax to chop the hole, a saucepan to scoop up the water and pour into a milk can on his sled.
There was always hot water in the winter because his mom had a wood cook stove with a water reservoir.
Bath time was in front of the stove. The youngest went first. They used a mesh scooper to get soap scum and hair out, added a little more hot water than the next oldest took their turn.
My Mom and her family also bathed like this. One exception being there was a communal water pump. They were lucky because the pump was in front of their house.
My husband can remember watching all the men in town getting together and cutting ice blocks at the lake and transporting them to the ice house with draft horses and a bobsled. Covering the ice blocks with sawdust. This ice lasted until summer was over. Than nobody had ice until freeze up.
Both my parents lived off grid. Most people did. My mom had electricity. But no indoor plumbing. My husband didn't get electric until 1948. After that people started adding indoor bathrooms which were very small because they had to add them in the existing footprint of the house.
His families house is still standing. A seasonal resident purchased it.
I am trying to get my husband to write a book about his experiences living in the old days. He also lived in a logging camp with his mom whom was the cook in a log cabin for two winters. He has so many interesting life stories to tell.
Maybe there are some ideas here for people dealing with water freeze up. People lived off grid for a very long time. Our off grid life is easier because we can use some of the modern equipment that is available most of it even in the winter.
A few months of doing without running water can be done. I did it for a month last year.
I can't say it was fun. It did make life more difficult but it outweighed the joy I had getting to spend more time at the cabin.
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FishHog
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# Posted: 2 Jun 2019 08:46
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Running water is a great convience but I’ve only had it for 4 years out of my lifetime of cottaging. And I still don’t in the winter.
So I agree with the above. It certainly can be done but it is nice if you don’t have too
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 2 Jun 2019 09:12
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I agree running water is a convenience, but a nice especially at a part time cabin. We were up last winter for a couple of weeks and made do with 5 gallon containers of drinking water then melted snow for water to flush the toilet. No outhouse and they are not allowed where we live...I suppose we could put in an outdoor composting toilet but that would not even compost in such cold weather. Besides I'm pretty sure my wife would bulk at that! We have both lived in primitive cabins in the past but being in our mid 60's those days are behind us!
My nextdoor neighbor came by yesterday and his water system is under his house as well.... no freezing late into the fall last year - his first year owning the cabin. Same construction as my other neighbor. The builder uses 4" foams bonded to plywood for the inside form when pour the perimeter foundation then leaves the foam/plywood form in place. No insulation in the floor so heat can transfer through. He claims the floors stay warm under footbtoo. Neighbor said he was really surprised how warm it was in the crawlspace late last fall when he drained the system.
Seems to work for folks up here so I will probably try it. Our floors are very cold now with no insulation on either the crawlspace perimeter or under the floor. Last winter it was pretty unbearable to walk on the wood floors barefoot. Hoping to kill two birds with one stone by insulating the perimeter skirting.
Of course.... without heat in the cabin I doubt the tank and plumbing would stay thawed. Will still have to drain everything if we are not here to keep a fire going.
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