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paulz
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2019 20:40
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I borrowed a lithium chain saw the other day, bucked some logs to see when it would give out. I gave out, or finished the pile first.
Today my two stroke weed whacker took 25 pulls to start. Maybe it's finally time. I'm slow to jump on the technology bandwagon.
Obviously it makes sense to share one battery type with all your stuff. The chainsaw was 40 volt, he said they are coming out with 60. Have they, or will they settle on a universal battery?
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2019 10:12
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I could see a electric saw being a good replacement for a 30-40cc home owner saw. Just dont see it for real wood cutting.
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2019 10:35
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I think, judging by the Stihl demo wall, electric will take over a lot of the commercial market. For the silence.
If I was doing a residential backyard tree removal at 7 a.m. I know which chainsaw I'd want to be using.
The crew that do the clean up across the way from my gfs use Stihl 2 stroke. If they would change that blower to electric I'd be able to sleep in on Tuesday.
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paulz
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2019 12:02
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They don't have the grunt to take down a large tree but I sliced up a bunch of foot diameter logs and it was still going when I finished. Just a test though.
Here is where it really shined: We had a free dump day at the compost yard a couple weekends ago. I had my dump truck in my woods cleaning up fallen trees and branches. A few cuts here, a few cuts there..Nice to just squeeze the trigger, make the cut, let go.. No refilling, no spilled fuel, no cord yanking.
I use a Husky 370 for the big stuff. And a Stihl 010 for bucking firewood normally.
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2019 15:41 - Edited by: NorthRick
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I've been eyeing battery powered versions of gas powered tools for a while. I'm still not ready to bite. To me, things are still all over the map, although improving. Not only are there 60v batteries/tools, there are 80v ones now too.
Most of my cordless hand tools are DeWalt so that the batteries are interchangeable. I'm still not sure who to go with regarding yard tools like a mower, leaf blower, weed wacker, etc.
Since I have all those in gas versions in good shape, I think I will wait a bit more and see how things shake out.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2019 15:42
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Husqvarna now has electric as does Stihl, not sure about Echo. Husky just had a demo day here at the local lumber yard and they were chopping up Maple, Pine and such with their Electric saw and no problem with 18" dia Maple.
DeWalt also has their family of electric tools and that now includes E-Chain Saws which can use the FlexVolt batteries (up to 120V).
I have a Husky 576XP for my cutting work but it is a beast ! and been looking at the new DeWalt for the lighter stuff. All my cordless tools are DeWalt and never had any issues at all, so that's a reference for me. I have no doubt that Husky, Stihl etc would also make sure their products do what they are intended to do.
I myself would stick with DeWalt simply because it's one platform and I can use the batteries across the family of tools. That might be a consideration for you as well... if you already have an investment in a "family" of cordless, it would be prudent to stick with the family if you can.
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creeky
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2019 16:19
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Ya. I bought a lawn mower and string trimmer at 40v. Now I'm stuck at 40v. Just bought the blower.
Meh. 10 years from now when this stuff wears out imagine what'll be available. Hmmm. 10 years from now I might not be available.
I got the Kobalt. It was one of those after christmas in the big box with manager clearing out specials. paid 120 for the mower!!! and the string trimmer is awesome. No noise! other than whirring lines and smacked up foliage. after 4 years of fartin' around every spring with the 4 stroke. sure felt nice to grab the trimmer and go.
plus. last summer the neighbor was struggling getting his mower going. went out with the electric. pushed the button. whirred away. I was done before he got his started. (yes. i am that shallow.)
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Atlincabin
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2019 17:11
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I do wish that they would settle on a "standard" battery or set of batteries. It is irksome to be channeled into the "family" of tools that may not be ideal for me just because of the commonality of batteries.
Rant over.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2019 17:30
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Electric is where it is at these days. At least for me. I have E-Go brand, 56 volt lithium. Chain saw, string trimmer, leaf blower and their hedge trimmer. No more farting around with gas, remembering to drain when finished, etc. etc. The batteries are interchangeable between their tools. I have a 7.5 AH one on the chain saw usually and a couple of other smaller ones for other lighter tools. I sold off one of the old Stihl's and did a service and clean up on the big one I am keeping just in case. I don't need to cut trees for hours at a time anymore, just a tree now and again when the wind blows one down.
No hope at all, IMO, of there ever being a standardized battery system.
I have looked at the yard tools batteries as being in a completely different class compared to workshop tools like drills, etc. Years back I settled on Makita for cordless. Pricer than some but extremely reliable. I have seldom had a problem and they were easy to repair myself for the most part. Except for the drill I dropped off a two story roof... it landed on concrete.  The Makita cordless miter saw is wonderful. Operates on 2 of their 18V batteries. Other makes have their own versions too.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 19 Jun 2019 10:49
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Quoting: Steve_S DeWalt also has their family of electric tools and that now includes E-Chain Saws which can use the FlexVolt batteries (up to 120V).
Hmm, FlexVolt, that's a start. What's a 120vdc shock feel like?
My bright idea is a battery you carry on a belt or shoulder harness and plug into the tool. A bit more cumbersome but at least you don't have to worry about the battery fitting.
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 19 Jun 2019 11:27
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The DeWalt group solved the battery problem issue with the FlexVolt series that works across their family of tools. 120VDC zap ? not likely to raise a hair. Volts don't kill, it's the amps behind it that do.
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FishHog
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# Posted: 19 Jun 2019 11:48
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Batteries are where they make their money. They will never standardize. Luckily some stay consistent within their brand at least. But go to any second hand store and there are tones of tools without batteries
In a way I find it quite wasteful. I’ve got a small still chainsaw that is going on 30 years and still runs strong if you store it right. How many different saws or batteries would I have gone through in that time
I love the idea but until they get a long lasting battery I just can’t see it for myself
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snobdds
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# Posted: 19 Jun 2019 12:57
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The battery niche is targeting the homeowner buyer more than the professional owner and the build quality reflects that. Stihl has seen this and has adapted a little to have a professional series of battery unit. But it's pricey and the breakeven point versus gas is pretty wide in the gas favor at this point. Will lawn guys want a generator running to recharge these batteries? I don't see an advantage at this point in the commercial game.
Lithium is still considered a dirty fuel source. It's somewhat rare and must be mined and refined to a useable format. It's like the modern day coal in the production process, but since it's rechargeable it does have value in the long run.
I just don't see batteries as a long run solution to energy needs. Once someone figures out the fusion solution...everything else is obsolete.
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 19 Jun 2019 16:45
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Quoting: snobdds I just don't see batteries as a long run solution to energy needs. Once someone figures out the fusion solution...everything else is obsolete.
A cold fusion chainsaw? Now that would be something!
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 19 Jun 2019 18:49
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I already have a 110 ac chainsaw, weed whacker, mower... How much battery and inverter would it take to run them? Too much for a backpack?
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snobdds
Member
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# Posted: 19 Jun 2019 18:53
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Well...just get this for yourself. It's only $1k.
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KelVarnsen
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# Posted: 19 Jun 2019 20:10 - Edited by: KelVarnsen
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My dad, a retired chemistry teacher and very smart man, has recently started tinkering with lithium batteries. He's been visiting our local Home Depot and grabbing lithium battery packs from various tools that have been put into the battery recycling bin. Every battery pack that he has grabbed so far has had at most one bad cell and he's been able to successfully revive them. I haven't had a chance to figure out what his tips and tricks are yet, but I'll try and find out and share them with the forum.
He has built me a couple of small battery packs/cells with only a few cheap parts from China and free batteries. Don't throw out those expensive, defective batteries!
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 20 Jun 2019 09:11 - Edited by: creeky
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Quoting: KelVarnsen Don't throw out those expensive, defective batteries!
Its amazing what I've seen built with thrown away batteries. And its usually one bad cell. 7 good ones.
Most lithium batteries today should last decades. Just treat 'em right. Don't store them fully charged. Store them at 60%. Try to warm them up before recharging.
A buddy of mine has the new DeWalt sidewinder skill saw. With the 60v battery. He works onsite all day and says the battery lasts all day. He recharges when he gets home. And no cord. No gas. No hassle. Just powerful cuts every time.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 20 Jun 2019 09:49
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Im still useing 9yr old milwaukee M18 batterys. I wouldnt say there going strong but there still going.
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 20 Jun 2019 10:02
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BTW: Old Laptop Batteries are a resource most everyone overlooks, there is treasure in those if you want to get creative and are willing to tinker. Taking apart the casings for them is the worst part, the rest get's to be some fun...
I'm using a battery from my old Dell Studio lappie to make a UPS for my Raspberry Pi & Router. Not all that hard given instructions for Raspberry anything are available everywhere.
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justins7
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# Posted: 20 Jun 2019 14:27
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I have a Kobalt 80v chainsaw and it does pretty well taking down medium-sized trees and cutting wood for the fire. It is a bit ridiculous that it's apparently exactly the same as the Geenworks brand, but the batteries are not interchangeable.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2019 08:49
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Good point. In 20yrs are you going to be able to buy a new battery? Im sure they will still make gas to put in my 2 stroke.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2019 09:51
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Quoting: Brettny In 20yrs are you going to be able to buy a new battery? Im sure they will still make gas to put in my 2 stroke.
The batteries will certainly be available or at least the cells of some form. As for your 2 Stroke Gas, yep as Premixed in a can for $35 a gallon or more. Almost like the Stihl, Husqvarna premixes in stores now. That would be the time all the 2 strokes + will be scrap steel.
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2019 17:53 - Edited by: KinAlberta
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Quoting: KelVarnsen My dad, a retired chemistry teacher and very smart man, has recently started tinkering with lithium batteries. He's been visiting our local Home Depot and grabbing lithium battery packs from various tools that have been put into the battery recycling bin. Every battery pack that he has grabbed so far has had at most one bad cell and he's been able to successfully revive them. I haven't had a chance to figure out what his tips and tricks are yet, but I'll try and find out and share them with the forum. He has built me a couple of small battery packs/cells with only a few cheap parts from China and free batteries. Don't throw out those expensive, defective batteries!
A friend of mine has done that. He also found that often just one bad battery led to someone throwing the whole pack away. He’s also collected dozens of laptop battery packs too.
Apparently sometimes packs error out because they were too drained that the charger won’t accept them. So just running a jump wire from another battery for a minute gives them enough of a charge that the charging unit with then accept them.
18650 is a common size of cell in the packs.
Why isn't the 18650 battery a consumer level product?
https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Why_isnandapos_t_the_18650_battery_a_consumer_lev el_product_/5-1922131/
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2019 18:04
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Quoting: KinAlberta Apparently sometimes packs error out because they were too drained that the charger won’t accept them. So just running a jump wire from another battery for a minute gives them enough of a charge that the charging unit with then accept them.
Funny you mention that, as I am just about to pop open a few lappie batteries, so looking for quick info I found YT Videos on just this subject ! But one in particular to see. This vid talks about fixing them and the various bits & pieces, plus how to make small power-packs for your USB devices. Good Stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7arwwTGliUA
Always nice to have a backup power pack for your cell or other things if you plan on being away from power sources and upcycling cheaply is 
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jun 2019 08:25
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No one who uses there 2 stroke equipment alot buys pre mixed fuel. Yes that stuff is expensive
I pay $3.50 a gal for 91 octain E free fuel. Then $45 a gal for a high quality 2 stroke oil.
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95XL883
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jun 2019 16:36
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I’m a fan of good tools either cordless or 2
Stroke. I’ve got a couple of Stihl chainsaws and a Stihl FS130 trimmer with a knife on it. For heavy farm use, I can’t imagine current cordless models performing as well in the conditions I use them in. For home use they would be overkill except in my instance I have a lot of Osage Orange. The trimmer is way overkill for home use.
I have a cordless Porter able circular saw and drill. It’s a disappointment. They are weak and battery life is short.
I just bought a Makita 36 volt trimmer. Haven’t really used it yet but so far I ‘m impressed. Not as strong as the Stihl 2 stroke but I think it will be plenty strong for home use. I’ve had a couple of Makita drills before. Both were excellent and did a lot of hard work. One was stolen and the other finally wore out after drilling a lot of concrete.
Picking the right tool for the job makes doing the job easier. Personally, I don’t mind mixing two stroke fuel. I go through up to 10 gallons a year, always mix in some marine grade stabil and don’t leave gas in the carbs for very long. So far I haven’t had a fuel related problem. They generally start pretty easy following the Stihl instructions.
An unmentioned negative to good cordless tools is they will disappear. I won’t leave my new trimmer in the garage. I lost a good drill that way. I’ll go up and down steps to be sure I can keep it.
Just my .02
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 24 Jun 2019 16:48
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I have a lot of 2 stroke... IE: Husqvarna 576XP Chainsaw, Husqvarna Trimmer and more and I mix my own with high test.
We will be able to get batteries in 20 years, BUT 2 Stroke will likely only be available in Premix for crazy bux. IN 20 YEARS, if not sooner, pending on how things go.
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95XL883
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jun 2019 17:37
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I hope you are wrong Steve but I know there are some who want all petrocarbons gone from NA. In the spirit of levity only, in 12 years we’ll all be dead anyway according to AOC. Levity only, no political fights please.
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 24 Jun 2019 18:24
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In 20 years there will still be pump gas. There will still be 2 stroke oil in bottles available to mix your own. And, it won't be $35 a gallon. I'll bet a gallon of mixed gas on it.
I remember in the 70's when the world was going to be completely out of oil by 2000. Didn't happen and there still is plenty left. Now lithium deposits...
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