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drb777
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2019 15:52
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When a landowner gives permission to say, a neighbor to use their property for deer hunting, is it customary to receive any consideration at all? In my situation, they've set-up a feeder, tree stand and cameras, and have already taken a buck and doe, just during bow season. With gun season approaching, I expect increased activity.
So is there any tradition or custom of sharing the harvest (share cropping) or favor swapping at least? I seem to remember from contract law 101 that there can't be a true contract or enforceable agreement w/o consideration on both sides.
BTW my 80 acres is in an area of thickly wooded NE Oklahoma where many of the land parcels are purchased & owned specifically to secure private hunting opportunities for the owners. 'Just wondering what others have experienced.
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ICC
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2019 17:32
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Unless there was an offer or a request made before or as the deal was made I don't think there is any obligation on anybody's part to do anything except leave the place as it was when the hunters are finished.
In NM the Game & Fish department rules state that permission to hunt on private land must be in written form. They have a downloadable "courtesy card" form available. Everyone's name, address, etc are listed and there are check boxes for hunting, fishing, trapping, and to allow or disallow off road motor vehicles use as well as dates from and to when the permission is valid. It lessens any misunderstandings. I use the form if asked for permission and do not expect anything other than no damage and no trash, etc left behind.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2019 18:01
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Usually the hunter would just bring some primo cuts without being asked. Its just proper etiquette, especially with the feeder etc set up. Is it legal to bait, ie feeder during deer season? It certainly isn't in my area.
As ICC said, leave zero trace, this means not even a gut pile.
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Fanman
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2019 18:13
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What toyotatech said. I'll only add that that most state's recreational liability statutes protect the landowner only if he allows use of the land without compensation.
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drb777
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2019 18:14
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech Is it legal to bait, ie feeder during deer season?
Yes, baiting/feeding is allowed in OK.
But like you said, good neighbor etiquette works both ways I would think.
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ICC
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2019 18:50
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Re , baiting. There is a lot of variation in the rules in different states.
Here in NM we can use feed as bait but it must be removed for at least 10 days before hunting that spot. In other words it is okay to get deer acclimatized to getting feed there, but you have to give them a chance to lose interest in the site. Across the nearby border in Colorado you can bait anytime. I don't think baiting is fair.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2019 20:59
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Quoting: ICC I don't think baiting is fair.
I'm with you on this.
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SCSJeff
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2019 07:31 - Edited by: SCSJeff
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IMO... Regarding etiquette, I would offer any meat from deer shot on their land at a minimum and if going so far as setting up stands and feeders, I would ask if I could help with anything else as well. Unfortunately, from your perspective, I don't think you can expect it if it wasn't discussed in advance. However, that doesn't mean you have to give them permission next year if nothing is offered in return 
Regarding the baiting... Here in PA, the state keeps changing the rules from year to year and is also based on zones (IE: if in a heavy deer population area). Although, it never really helped me... For a few years, when I was allowed to have a feeder running through hunting season, the bucks stopped coming to it once archery season started... Go figure 
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Brettny
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2019 07:45
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The question really should be if you want to have acess to this property in the future.
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sparky30_06
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2019 07:48
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If your neighbor isn't hunting his property he's probably not a hunter so I wouldn't give him any meet.
Be neighborly and help him out if he needs any help and maybe bring him a nice bottle of Scotch and a honey baked ham for Christmas.
as for baiting isn't fair, what's the difference between a feeder running verse planting a food plot or hunting the end of a field being harvested or hunting the edge of a pond?
Down here in Texas the deer don't have much natural food and they have to compete with the hogs, so a feed pen area that is enclosed to keep the hogs out actually does good to help increase deer numbers and health. Those big bucks get big for a reason, they are smart. They will stand in the thick brush and watch. They will move and feed at night. I have chased deer for many years and never seen them or got a shot at them. Have pictures of camera but never see them. I have even had pictures for deer on camera as I sit in the blind in the dark, I could never see them and they were gone before sunup. Deer are smarter than you give them credit for.
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ICC
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2019 14:52
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Quoting: ICC I don't think baiting is fair.
Let me expand on that. Where I am located the majority of those who hunt do not have to depend on the meat from hunting for survival. They like to hunt and I have little argument with that. Many of them have fine equipment used to hunt. Even amortized over time they actually could buy grocery store meat with less expense.
My gramps hunted for meat to feed the family back in the 30's and 40's. If he didn't get an elk or deer he would slaughter one of the cattle. When that happened he obviously could not sell it. If he could not sell a cow the family did without something. There are still some people around here who hunt to feed their families.
So, my general view is that if the hunt is at subsistence level, I could see baiting being a valid tool. But when the hunt is not vital to one's own survival baiting is an artificial aid and can be done without. And all the more so when the hunter is a trophy hunter or comes from out of state.
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FishHog
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2019 15:06
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Quoting: ICC Where I am located the majority of those who hunt do not have to depend on the meat from hunting for survival.
As much as I enjoy wild game and much prefer to feed that to my family than store bought, hunting for survival is certainly not the reason I hunt. There is much more to it than that.
People who don't hunt think baiting is like shooting fish in a barrel. It is far from that in reality. In fact I think many bait hunters could be much more successful with other tactics. I have no issue with baiting and have done so at times, but its not like what you picture it in the wild.
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sparky30_06
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2019 07:15
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I'm with FishHog
Quoting: FishHog As much as I enjoy wild game and much prefer to feed that to my family than store bought, hunting for survival is certainly not the reason I hunt. There is much more to it than that.
People that don't hunt and live in a concrete jungle don't understand hunting and being with nature, and probably never will and I'm ok with that. I'm tired of city folks trying to bring the city with them when they goto the country. Look at what they have done with camping and these 4 start hotels on wheels!
I hunt to fill my freezers, I could goto the store and buy meat from who knows where and who knows how it has been handled. I prefer to process my own deer, hogs and birds so I know how it's been handled. I do go and buy a nice steak and roast once a month too. Venison is also very healthy for you. I have worked on high fence ranches that had trophy hunters come in just to shoot a monster. Let me tell you hunting high fence can be ALOT harder than free range. Those animal adapt fast and become very smart. They know the difference between the tractor that brings feed and the vehicle that brings hunts to the blind. I have watched them stand in deep brush and stare at a blind for an hour to see if someone was in there. People don't give animals enough credit on how smart they are. Alot of the trophy hunters didn't want the meat, that was fine with me. i took it home or cut it up and gave it to the hands on the ranch, it didn't goto waste like the media leads you to believe.
Most people don't have to hunt to survive and it's a treat when they can have back strap from the deer they have harvested, but most people don't know how to cook it and they destroy it, lol
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old243
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2019 08:59
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I am a farmer and a hunter. I have a small area by my bush , that I keep well fertilized and seeded. Like to have a couple of does living here. As far as giving hunting permission, I don't give it. Our several neigbours have agreed to bucks only . And no outside permission given. If as you state the hunter you have given permission , to has already taken two deer , he has reached his limit and is being greedy. I take a buck most years for my freezer, most times I like a yearling, as they are nice and tender. My two cents worth. old243
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drb777
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2019 11:02 - Edited by: drb777
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I appreciate all of the comments. While I completely understand harvesting deer to fill your freezer and feed your family, during the past 40 years I keep encountering locals that eat, sleep and breath about the hunt. For these, it seems to be an obsession since it's their year round overriding concern above everything else. Since I don't really care about killing any of the native wildlife, it's a bit hard for me to understand.
I'll wait to see how this year turns out, if any appreciation is shown (a simple thank-you maybe). I doubt I'll ever grant a hunting easement in the future. And I understand that being a good neighbor does not mean one should grant hunting permission.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2019 14:04
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So you granted permission to hunt your land and didnt talk about getting any meat and are now expecting it?
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SCSJeff
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2019 15:18
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Well, if I'm interpreting the OP's feelings correctly...
Sounds like he gave permission to hunt not really thinking about or expecting the full blown operation that he was allowing to move in (IE: feeders, tree stands, cameras, etc.) To us hunters, that may be understood... 
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Brettny
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2019 15:27
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Setting up in field infrastructure is not cheap nor has the land owner paid for, cared for anyof these things so them setting them up shouldnt have a bareing on weather the land owner gets a cut of the meat. In all reality the hunter has gone to great lengths to get a deer. Does that mean the land owner is intitled to more meat?
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drb777
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2019 15:33 - Edited by: drb777
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'Not quite correct. The arrangement specified that they would assist in restoring a washed-out pond and other clearing in an creek bottom area, and that would benefit both. Unfortunately, they were too busy to keep their end of the deal. (But always have plenty hunt & facebook brag time.)
At least in this case, the hunters only spent a few hours hanging a tree stand, setting a couple of cameras, and dumping a few bags of corn. I'm the one doing the clearing, mowing and paying the taxes.
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sparky30_06
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2019 15:55
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I can tell you this, I pay good money to lease the property I hunt. I work year round to clear cedar and unwanted trees from the property. This help the land and gives more grazing area for the cows also. Last year I spent alot of money to have a guy come in with a skid loader and clear some large areas for me. I didn't ask the landowner to help pay, but now his cows have some large areas to graze in and some nice oak thickets to stand under for shade.
For me it is a year round obsession to be outdoors and help improve the land to get more wildlife to come in. It's called conservation and it's what hunters do.
Most concrete jungle, aka city folks, will come out and spend a few hours out there only. They don't understand what it's like to be out in nature like we do.
If you had an agreement, in writing, and they didn't hold up their end of the agreement you have every right to kick them off your property or withhold access to your property. Don't judge all hunters on you one bad experience.
I have driven around, knocking on doors asking if I could go call varmints in a hunters field and have meet some great people while doing that.
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Fanman
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2019 19:32
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Quoting: sparky30_06 If your neighbor isn't hunting his property he's probably not a hunter so I wouldn't give him any meet.
Just because someone's not a hunter doesn't mean he wouldn't appreciate a few nice cuts of venison.
Food isn't the only reason I hunt, but during some financially lean periods around 20 years ago it was the most important reason.
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redneckpaul
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2019 21:42
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Ya the city slickers and antihunters go to the market and buy meat cut and wrapped. YA ever been in a slaughterhouse, someone kills that cow or pig, it`s not a pretty sight. We enjoy hunting as we spend time together in the outdoors. All the meat we eat comes from around the cabin, My wife does all the hunting anymore I just help with the gutting and processing. I know where my meat comes from. I used to be a trophy hunter and I`m proud of it. I just don`t care about the antlers anymore, it`s about getting meat. Anyway if your a hunter have fun and be safe. Put meat in the freezer and antlers on the wall! 
Trophys in the cabin
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Antelope at the cabin
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Brettny
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# Posted: 21 Nov 2019 06:50
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Quoting: drb777 'Not quite correct. The arrangement specified that they would assist in restoring a washed-out pond and other clearing in an creek bottom area, and that would benefit both. Unfortunately, they were too busy to keep their end of the deal. (But always have plenty hunt & facebook brag time.) At least in this case, the hunters only spent a few hours hanging a tree stand, setting a couple of cameras, and dumping a few bags of corn. I'm the one doing the clearing, mowing and paying the taxes.
Ok i understand now. You didnt state that before. If you dont see them living upto there end of the deal i would take back permission for them to hunt. Did you give permission in wrighting? If there end of the deal was to clean out a pond and it wasnt done yet its not going to happen after hunting season. Does the ground freze where you are?
At some point if they have the permission in wrighting you may just leave it alone until spring then get them to clean out the pond and not give permission for next year. Kind of like hanging next years hunting over there head then pull it away.
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mj1angier
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# Posted: 21 Nov 2019 06:58
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I would call this year a learning lesson. If they want to come back next year, have a contract spelling out the things they must have done before hunting season starts and what, if any, restritions are on the hunt- no stands, no baiting, buck size... Don't sign permission slips until their end is met.
It's your land, you set the rules. If they don't like them, they don't have to hunt.
As far as baiting goes, it's no more of an advantage than using a rifle over a shotgun over a crossbow over a bow over a spear....
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sparky30_06
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# Posted: 21 Nov 2019 07:56
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Brettny
I grew up in the midwest with as much as 6' of frost in the ground, I got out of there and enjoy only going to play in the snow once a year and not having to work in it and take care of animals in it.
If they didn't live up to their end of the deal this year calk it up to lessons learned. Next year do a written contract or lease the hunting rights to someone else. You can draw up the lease to include whatever you want. I have been on leases with signed contract that stated after X date I had access to the property to put up stands and feeders and they could only be placed in certain ares. I was only allowed to trim branches smaller than 2" in diameter anything else i needed additional permission. I could only deer hunt and not hunt anything else. I was only allowed to harvest 2 does and 1 trophy buck. And I had to have everything removed by X date or it became property of the land owner. I was on another lease that we could only hunt doves and hogs. now I am on a year round lease and I have full access to everything, didn't start out that way but after several year and the landowner seeing how I was taking care of the property he has now basically given me the keys to the kingdom.
Also make sure in your contract that you have a clause that releases you from any liability if they get hurt, if they can bring anyone with them and what kind of vehicles that can use or not use.
It sounds overwhelming but you want to CYA and probably over time you will meet some good people and make some great friends.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 21 Nov 2019 08:32
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Sparky what im saying is no ones going to be cleaning out a pond, what they agreed on...when theres a foot of frozen ground.
Im glad you have had goot opportunity to hunt on leases.
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sparky30_06
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# Posted: 21 Nov 2019 10:52
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I would be pissed too if they didn't hold up their end of the deal. I would talk to them and see why they haven't done it and tell them sorry guys you didn't hold up your end of the deal, you can not hunt here until you do.
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sparky30_06
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# Posted: 21 Nov 2019 11:11
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well my dream of owning a large piece of land isn't within my reach so I have to lease them, hopefully I can stay on it for a long time
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drb777
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2020 12:52
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Update; After 2 years of letting my neighbor (and his friends) have free reign to hunt on my 80 acres, I notified him that I wasn't interested in this going forward. And I asked him to remove his giant feeder, tree stand and camera within the next 4 weeks. I was polite and non-accusatory in any way. BTW, he received this benefit w/o even attempting to do any of the promised consideration.
Immediately he responded with angry remarks to me and even vailed treats. In retrospect, I suppose I should have expected this since his cousin previously confirmed my thoughts that "he cares more about hunting than anything".
I am not opposed to hunters or hunting at all, but I seriously doubt I'll ever allow myself get into this situation again. Be very careful about granting access permission on your property. I'm not saying this is typical, but it's what happened to me.
(BTW, I found out later that he was trading hunts on my property to get himself Wisconsin hunting trips.)
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ICC
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2020 14:51
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Sadly, I am not surprised.
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