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MrDick
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# Posted: 5 Jun 2023 13:28
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I live in a 12x20 cabin and got the electrical company over to see what could be done about getting me electricity. They said I can bury cable from my cabin to the nearest electrical pole behind me (200ft away) and that they'd put a meter on that pole. They said it has to be 2AWG and not much else was said.
It has to be said that my electrical needs will be incredibly low. I will be running a 500w AC, and when cooking I'll be using a 1,000W Hotplate, and a 1,200W Microwave (few other electronics plugged in that use negligible amounts of power like cellphone/laptop)
I don't think I'll ever be going over 4,000W of power draw from appliances all running at the same time. I do understand 200ft is a long ways away so voltage drop in theory should factor in, but like said my power draw will be low <4,000W so keep that in mind
I'm curious what type of cable I'm going to need for this? I've come across two links right now with a good sale/discount and feel inclined to put in an order
https://rb.gy/2l4qo
https://rb.gy/iqii9
Both are "2-2-2-4" but I don't know the difference between the two. One doesn't mention anything about direct burial
Am I looking at the right type of cable or do I need to look elsewhere for something else? Overkill/Underkill? More affordable options? Routes?
I definitely think I'd rather be using conventional electricity and not off-grid solutions like Solar because even with a small solar setup its going to cost a lot and I wont even get to run an AC for very long.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 5 Jun 2023 15:38 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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I am doing this exact thing now, I am coming up the road 1/4 mile, then into my place about 1/16th mile. Hiring a contractor, they use a dozer with a vibrating spike in front and a large roll of wire spool in back inside a flexible conduit. They just plow it in, down 36 inches, I am putting in my meter base/load center on a pole, they will install a pad mount transformer and my panel is about 10 feet from transformer. Cost will be around 25K, PUD engineer has already been out, we spoke at great length, super nice people, marked my TX location and meter base. I cleared some trees for the plow to come in. I install meter end of month, call in for inspection and then they come in, plow under cable, hook to my panel in one swoop. Plowing cable is done by a local contractor, 2 in the area that does this.
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spencerin
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# Posted: 5 Jun 2023 19:52
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Hire a private contractor to connect the power from the pole to your cabin. Let them worry about the right materials, installation, code, and most importantly, your safety.
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ICC
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# Posted: 5 Jun 2023 19:59 - Edited by: ICC
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The NEC covers all power grid connections nation wide. Minimum residential service panel is 100 amp. The power company will require use of a cable size sufficient to carry that potential load. Even if all you install is one 15 amp circuit. It may not seem fair in all situations but that does cover what might happen in the future if you were to change your mind or when the property changes ownership.
Re the two links; the spec sheets might be useful to read, but then again spec sheets often make reference to certain code section for definitions. Best to ask the seller or manufacturer.
The 2-2-2-4 means the two hots and single neutral are AWG 2 and the ground is AWG 4. That should ok with your power company but you should ask to be sure, or simply hire a licensed electrician who will obtain the permits and after installation be responsible for having done everything to pass the inspection. This can be done by the home owner in most jurisdictions but there is usually a test you need to take and get a passing grade. Then it is up to you to do everything right and pass inspection.
Two hots are used as the power company will only install a 240 volt service.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 6 Jun 2023 07:51
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Just to toss a rock in the pond.
If all you are likely to ever use is 4000W @ 120V you can setup a small solar system to handle that easily enough and not too costly either.
I am offgrid with solar, 4000W Inverter capable of up to 12,000W Surge handling and this handles my needs & wants 7/24/365. This is providing 120VAC/33A to my system that also runs my deep well pump and everything else... even handle my Mig Wedler & 3HP Compressor without a blink. BTW: I use between 3.0-3.5kWh per day year round.
Grid Power will provide you with 240VAC/100A (likely the minimum) and of course monthly connection fees, taxes and whatever else they toss on in your region (they all vary). So there is a monthly/Annual cost for just having the wire.
A small system with 2000W of Solar Panel to a 200 Volt/100A Solar Charge Controller to charge batteries and a respectable mid-grade Inverter/Charger. Battery Pack size depends on how much reserve you want (most want 3 days) which @ 4.0kWh = 12kWh to give you that 3 days. That works out to 468.7 Amp-Hours.
Just for quick info.
12V Battery Based system handles up to 3000W Max
24V Battery Based system handles up to 6000W Max
excluding surge handling.
If you're going to be FullTime then you also have the option of using an AIO (All In One) system that has the Solar Controller, Inverter & Charger all in one modular unit which makes things considerably easier to setup but there are a few drawbacks for the convenience.
Hope it helps, Good Luck.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 6 Jun 2023 09:26
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That mobile home feeder wire (MHF) should be fine for your needs. You really need to find out more information from your local municipality and power company. For instance are you even allowed to do this work your self. If not then just call a contractor and let them do it all.
If you are allowed to do this work your self I suggest you find someone who knows more about home electric.
I'm able to do my own electrical in my area and even changed the service my self. How ever I have family that use to work as an electrician and knows a electrical contractor a few states away.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 6 Jun 2023 10:13
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As we are totally off-grid and dry and our part time cabineering elec needs are minimal we have found having 2x 12v LFP batteries (that I swap and recharge at home in a couple hours) running a Pure Sine Wave 12v to 120vac inverter (do not get/use a Mod Sine Wave!) is plenty enough for all the LED lights we want/need, recharge devices inc tools, tv+vcr, radio, Fans (rather than energy hog AC), etc.
When I need more power the inverter-generator get started.
This has proven to be effective and efficient for us.
Fwiw, the 350ish feet underground only run from the power pole to cabin, the ped, etc looks like it would be a min of about $3k (I cant get anybody to give me a hard number without a permit). I have talked with other owners hereabouts to make my est.
Im sure many of you would jump at doing it for only about $3k, but when I add on the ongoing cost, which would be about $35/mo now (of which very little is actual elec use) over 10yrs that becomes about $7500.
The numbers dont work for me since my aforementioned pattern of use has been doing so well.
If we were full time it would be different, and some solar would have to be considered as an option, though we Hate the look of a solar field and not fond of roof mounted either.
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MrDick
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jun 2023 13:55 - Edited by: MrDick
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Thank you for your reply, I'm seeing 2-2-4 triplex as well. I'm curious if 2-2-2-4 quadruplex is what I need for new electrical hookup to my cabin or if 2-2-4 is what I need?
If I get one vs the other, will I have handicapped myself? Are both applicable or do I absolutely need one otherwise the whole project is ruined?
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MrDick
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jun 2023 14:04 - Edited by: MrDick
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MrDick
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jun 2023 14:05
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Quoting: Steve_S Just to toss a rock in the pond. If all you are likely to ever use is 4000W @ 120V you can setup a small solar system to handle that easily enough and not too costly either. I am offgrid with solar, 4000W Inverter capable of up to 12,000W Surge handling and this handles my needs & wants 7/24/365. This is providing 120VAC/33A to my system that also runs my deep well pump and everything else... even handle my Mig Wedler & 3HP Compressor without a blink. BTW: I use between 3.0-3.5kWh per day year round. Grid Power will provide you with 240VAC/100A (likely the minimum) and of course monthly connection fees, taxes and whatever else they toss on in your region (they all vary). So there is a monthly/Annual cost for just having the wire. A small system with 2000W of Solar Panel to a 200 Volt/100A Solar Charge Controller to charge batteries and a respectable mid-grade Inverter/Charger. Battery Pack size depends on how much reserve you want (most want 3 days) which @ 4.0kWh = 12kWh to give you that 3 days. That works out to 468.7 Amp-Hours. Just for quick info. 12V Battery Based system handles up to 3000W Max 24V Battery Based system handles up to 6000W Max excluding surge handling. If you're going to be FullTime then you also have the option of using an AIO (All In One) system that has the Solar Controller, Inverter & Charger all in one modular unit which makes things considerably easier to setup but there are a few drawbacks for the convenience. Hope it helps, Good Luck.
Thank you kindly for your diligent reply. I have absolutely considered solar as it would mean not needing to deal with an electric company. I'm afraid it isn't as "set & forget" as I'd like it to be though. It seems like you really need to be quite educated and well versed on several fronts. (Nomenclature, charge controllers, voltages, amperage, pure sine vs modified sine, backup/reserve power, implications with not getting enough sun in the winter months, monitoring batteries, replacing them, battery types (lithium ion, agm, lead acid)
This is a LOT to take in and I will not pretend for a moment that I'm confident with my understanding of solar systems. I only have surface level knowledge.
And yes, while my power needs are going to be quite low, I cannot imagine all this being "cheap" compared to just going ahead and getting conventional electricity from the local co-op via direct bury, or how I'd be able to reliably run an AC of 600w for hours a day, plus a few other miscellaneous appliances that don't draw an awful lot... Maybe I'm missing something here? After all, I don't really know much.
If I could get a more direct price where I'm explicitly told what it may cost then I'd feel a lot better. <$2,000g/t???
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jun 2023 18:25 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: MrDick Thank you for your reply, I'm seeing 2-2-4 triplex as well. I'm curious if 2-2-2-4 quadruplex is what I need for new electrical hookup to my cabin or if 2-2-4 is what I need?
3 conductors (hot-hot-neutral) are the norm running from the grid to the meter head, then 4 wires (hot-hot-neutral-ground) from there downstream. This can vary with jurisdiction.
The power company will usually supply and hook up the wires from the grid to the meter base and you or the electrical contractor you hire will be responsible from the meter on to the cabin. Your wiring must pass inspection before the PoCo will connect.
With the meter 200 feet distant from the cabin there will also almost certainly need to be a disconnect at the meter.
Quoting: MrDick After all, I don't really know much.
I think that may be a good reason to hire a licensed electrician. Obtaining a grid connection means you will need permits and there will be inspections. In many locations, the homeowner can do this work once they pass whatever test is required by the local permit officials.
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2023 08:46
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Well without knowing where you are (closest city/state) there are number issues.
I myself am Solar, my system up to now has been as follows: (I am changing things this fall)
- 2000W of solar Panel, Fixed ground mount using 8x260W panels (Made in Canada)
- 1 Midnite Classic-200 Solar Controller, takes 200VDC/2100W and charges at 80A for 24V Battery (US Made)
- 1 Samlex EVO-4024 Pure Sine Low Frequency Inverter/Charger 4000W capable of 12,000W
- Battery Bank*
The battery bank started as Rolls Surette Lead Acid which I killed in 5 years at which time I switched to LFP (LiFePo4) which is non-flammable, non-explosion, and solid/reliable. At present, I have 33kWh of storage which provides me with 10 Days of reserve... Keep in mind my location with low sun hours in winter.
Now as I used Midnite Solar (USA) Solar Controller and Samlex Inverter/Charger which is also a Tier-1 product made in Taiwan I spent quite a bit more because this is premium gear. It works out to roughly $2200 USD for those two pieces + the extras. A modern AIO (All in one) that incorporates the SCC Inverter/Charger and several other BOS bits can work for you IF this is an FT use place.
We help a LOT of folks get into Solar over at https://diysolarforum.com/ and there are schematics and video tutorials to get you up to speed.
Batteries are the tricky thing... Until recently Lead Acid was the only affordable game and it came with many headaches but now LFP Batteries are readily available and without the issues. Plus LFP will last over 20 years if properly cared for.
Depending on your physical location, you may have access to really low-cost used panels that are tested & certified. There are a few vendors that do that in the US and they have incredible deals. See Santan Solar in Arizona here: https://www.santansolar.com/
My system is a few years old and so the costs were quite a bit higher back in the day. 300W panels were just appearing and so $$$. Now with 400W+ Panels at a lower starting $ point the costs have dropped. Also with the larger capacity panels you need less of them so that is another saver.
Yes Solar may seem daunting, especially if you do not know DC Systems which are NOTHING like AC, has it's own rules & terms. But it really isn't that hard to grasp and the tech has come a long way in the past 5 years. This is even easier now with the AIO's that take care of a lot of the "extras" you won't have to buy. Have a look here for a good general overview.
https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/all-in-one-122448v-packages.html
BTW: I am also Steve_S @ DIYSolarForum.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2023 10:29
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If I had a power pole 200ft away there would be slim to none chance of seeing even a single solar pannel any where on my property.
If you use the property in the winter alot, want to keep pipes from freezing, leave the fridge on, run AC or even a security system when your not there then solar is going to be very expensive and going to need to be watched very carefully.
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Nykolas
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jul 2023 22:33
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Quoting: Steve_S I am offgrid with solar, 4000W Inverter capable of up to 12,000W Surge handling and this handles my needs & wants 7/24/365.
I am starting to plan my solar installation and I would be curious to know what what brand of equipment you recommend
thanks 1
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2023 10:06
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Nykolas, that question could get into a pretty involved answer. May I suggest you start your own thread so the info keeps to your needs? 
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MJH
Member
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2023 12:23
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Quoting: gcrank1 Fwiw, the 350ish feet underground only run from the power pole to cabin, the ped, etc looks like it would be a min of about $3k (I cant get anybody to give me a hard number without a permit)
Not sure where you are at but 2 weeks ago I had to pay Wisconsin public service $2900 before they would run power from a post 75 feet away and install a meter. When I asked for a little bit more detail on that amount I received little more than "prices have gone up since last year."
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2023 17:54
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One would think that they could give an est. +/- a couple hundred bucks, after all, it isnt like they dont do this on a regular basis 
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