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combatvolcano
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2020 02:10 - Edited by: combatvolcano
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Hello to the forum, I am an off grid hobbyist planning to go full time within 2 years. I have made my own solar and R/O systems built into vans.
I am in the process of buying some property in NE Nevada, I first need to get a well installed. My first question is, when the contractor has "installed the well", what still has to be done to get water from it? What is the minimum type of powered setup? I could definitely build a structure, and put 1KW of solar on it, to power the pump and keep it above freezing, etc, but how do I know what the well installer will leave behind? Is it just a wire harness sticking out of the encasement pipe, with the well pex, like some videos show at the end? Or does it depend on the service requested?
Never have done anything with water services before, just R/O systems, and power services. So if anyone can point me to a helpful start to finish, land to water, guide on well setup? I can't seem to find anything.
Normally I would do it myself. Researched methods and everything. But a well in NV that isn't done by a certified company is illegal.
Thanks!
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Brettny
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2020 05:21
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Call a local well driller there really the only ones that can tell you specifics of the process.
I have family that lives near there...they looked into a well and are collecting rain water.
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combatvolcano
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2020 06:10 - Edited by: combatvolcano
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Quoting: Brettny I have family that lives near there...they looked into a well and are collecting rain water.
So please help me out with any info you have, my current understanding is that a well is required for a septic permit which is required for habitation. There don't seem to be building codes, but there do seem to be habitation codes in Elko (county)... can you clue me in to the reality? facts? Thanks!
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2020 06:49
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Always defer to State & County rules & regs as they vary by jurisdiction.
Two types of drilling, Cable & Bore.
Cable is the old style of pounding a bit in through the rock. It fractures rocks during the process and will result in better water flow faster. The wells don't have to go as deep to get the flow levels.
Bore is similar to how current oil wells are done, solid bores are taken out. Does not fracture teh rock which results in lower water flows. Typically this is compendated for by drilling deeper and having a larger reserve. It costs more as a result.
Normally, once the well is drilled, it is flow tested for GPM return. Water tests (quality etc) is usually done by an outside agent like a local Public Health Office or similar. Check with your county for that, they'll be able to direct you.
Drillers usually offer water pumps and related equipment as well.
As you are going OFF-Grid & Solar/Battery powered, do NOT consider ANY PUMP that is not a Soft-Start unit. This prevents a massive surge from hitting your inverter system. Large surges should be avoided whenever possible.
120V or 240V. BOTH will work just fine... There is a heap of "Wives Tales" around having to have 240V, it's pure PHOOEY ! It all depends on the application, workload. Given where you are, the well will most likely be deep and in such cases a submersible deep well pump is warranted.
A WORD on pumps: Don't skimp on the pump, a good one will do 20 years service ! if not more depending on water conditions (hard water is always a bugger). The Grundfos SQ Soft-Start pumps are not cheap but they are worth every cent. These are also the favoured for use off-grid and with solar/battery power.
https://product-selection.grundfos.com/za/products/sq?tab=products
ON the Solar Aspect:
Depending on pump, power draw and such, the system has to be sized accordingly. Low-Frequency Pure Sine Wave inverter is the only way to go for anything that has a motor and especially for sensitive electronics. Both 120V & 240V models are available and the price difference between the two is not big. High Frequency Inverters are NOT Suitable.
This is where things can get tricky and costly if not well planned out. Whenever considering something like using a Solar System, the most critical thing to do is to have a plan and follow it. Never Ever impulse buy ANYTHING. Avoid Marketted "shlock" like Renogy Gear (it is bargain basement crap).
A TIP to solve many issues in one shot.
Many regions have weird or odd rules around solar systems, battery banks and more... One of the simplest ways to avoid a pile of potential dwaddle is by working it to your advantage. You will have a Deep well with a well head, you want to power that with solar. Build a combined Well-House / Power-House over the well head. You can build the structure to not only encompass your well head, pressure tank if you want to as well but your solar equipment & batteries. As an isolated structure from the intended "home" it get's around the phooey about having batteries in a home (left over from Lead Acid days) and about extra safeties being required within a residence. Think Insurance Companies too.
If you build a Powerhouse, you can angle the roof for optimal angle for solar panels. It simplifies wiring runs from panels to solar controller system and much more. At this point the Inverter system will take teh battery power and give you AC power which is much easier to run a distance to the homes Panel.
We now have access to really good "All-In-One" systems such as MPP-Solar, Growatt, Victron and more. These encompass the Solar Charge Controller, Inverter & Charger systems into one modular box. The componentry within is modular, for service & maintenance. Some are even capable of supporting Wind Turbines as well.
REFS:
https://www.mppsolar.com/v3/product-overview/
https://www.growatt-america.com/list-9.html#product9
https://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers
A POINT ON BATTERIES:
Many will say LEAD IS THE WAY... I run Heavy Lead (Rolls Surrette Heavy Deep Cycle) but I also run with LiFePO4 bank as well. The cost of Lifepo is now at a point where lead is pointless. LFP charges faster, hold better, needs no maintenance, will not explode or catch fire and has no Cobalt or nasties like other chemistries. You can also restrict to using only 80% of capacity and get 10+ years of service without issue. Lead max useable is 50% capacity at the start and that deteriorates over time.
IF & WHEN you are ready to start thinking on Solar & batteries, you'd be better off coming to https://diysolarforum.com/index.php where we can help you figure it all out and develop a plan to work with.
Hope it helps, Good Luck.
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Irrigation Guy
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2020 07:55
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Quoting: Steve_S Always defer to State & County rules & regs as they vary by jurisdiction. Two types of drilling, Cable & Bore. Cable is the old style of pounding a bit in through the rock. It fractures rocks during the process and will result in better water flow faster. The wells don't have to go as deep to get the flow levels. Bore is similar to how current oil wells are done, solid bores are taken out. Does not fracture teh rock which results in lower water flows. Typically this is compendated for by drilling deeper and having a larger reserve. It costs more as a result. Normally, once the well is drilled, it is flow tested for GPM return. Water tests (quality etc) is usually done by an outside agent like a local Public Health Office or similar. Check with your county for that, they'll be able to direct you.
I would disagree with you on a couple things regarding drilling. Boring a well does not necessarily mean less water. Depth of a well that is tapping an aquifer is determined by the depth of the aquifer not the method of drilling the well. When drilling into clay or sandy soil, boring is a fine method for wells. In rock that may not be the case. Also when boring a well “solid bores†are not removed, the rock/soil is ground into almost a paste and brought to the surface with fluid that is pumped down through the drill rods.
Methods vary greatly by region and even from site to site within the same region. Like others have said, it is best to consult a local driller that knows the geology.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2020 09:38
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Call the town, call the county and call the state. The only people to ask these questions to is the people who are going to give you the violations.
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2020 11:09
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Quoting: combatvolcano My first question is, when the contractor has "installed the well", what still has to be done to get water from it?
When I had my well drilled I worked out with driller before-hand what I wanted them to do. That included not only drilling the well, but installing a deep-well pump, plumbing it out to a nearby farm-type hydrant, and wiring it out with at least 15' of wire on the surface to plug it into a generator (I have since modified that). If they are installing the pump they will want to install at least some basic components otherwise they have no way to test the installation. But, again, you can work all of this out with the driller beforehand.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2020 08:36 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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A well will be a capped hole in the ground with a drillers report. After that, you have it trimmed out. Several options, first, you probably want a pit-less adapter, this is where the water will exit the well through the casing underground below the freeze level. All you will have coming out from the top is a power cord.
Now that pipe can go to an underground vault with an access cover, this is where the pressure tank etc sets. Usually its just large concrete tiles and a manhole cover on them.
There is a set up where all this can be put inside the well too, so you just hook up power and you have water available, but harder to service. Then pit-less adapter can terminate to a frost free hydrant and then on up to cabin etc.
I hired out my drilling, so all permitted with county. I did trim it out with a solar livestock well set up. This allows me to just turn it on and it runs like a kitchen sink faucet. No batteries, all direct solar powered. You can have it fill an underground tank with a float level and draw from that for your cabin too. Nevada has lots of sunshine, right?
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combatvolcano
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2020 14:09 - Edited by: combatvolcano
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech A well will be a capped hole in the ground with a drillers report. After that, you have it trimmed out. Several options, first, you probably want a pit-less adapter, this is where the water will exit the well through the casing underground below the freeze level. All you will have coming out from the top is a power cord. Now that pipe can go to an underground vault with an access cover, this is where the pressure tank etc sets. Usually its just large concrete tiles and a manhole cover on them. There is a set up where all this can be put inside the well too, so you just hook up power and you have water available, but harder to service. Then pit-less adapter can terminate to a frost free hydrant and then on up to cabin etc. I hired out my drilling, so all permitted with county. I did trim it out with a solar livestock well set up. This allows me to just turn it on and it runs like a kitchen sink faucet. No batteries, all direct solar powered. You can have it fill an underground tank with a float level and draw from that for your cabin too. Nevada has lots of sunshine, right?
Thanks this is what I was looking for, lots of things to read about from this.
In Nevada you can NOT install your own well, period. It must be done by a certified driller or you will have state EPA up your A-55 faster than you can say "BLM water rights". But on the plus side, a residential well does not require a special permit. Only for industry. And all residential wells have a certain GPD max which is vastly more than a household could reasonably use. I think 2k gallons per day.
I sent a couple emails out to drillers in the area giving my coordinates and asking for quotes. Then I can talk to them. I'd honestly pay for them to finish it all out with a pumphouse, if it were 2-3k more. As others have said I won't skimp on the pump. They are cheap compared to land and drilling!
Thanks much all
Also this was very useful for finding the soil surveys for my parcel,
https://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/gmap/
And this is the same for NE nevada/Elko county for the 1980 and 1983 soil surveys
https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_MANUSCRIPTS/nevada/NV765/0/maps/index.pdf
And "tech", can you tell me anything about drilling on my land? It is morphologically pibler/gravier/izar association. Not sure if you know about that lol!
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2020 16:31
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Quoting: combatvolcano And "tech", can you tell me anything about drilling on my land? It is morphologically pibler/gravier/izar association. Not sure if you know about that lol!
I took a look at that report. I work with a bunch of geologists and they sure do like to make up names for what is essentially dirt and rocks. It's really describing surface soils down to about 5' and, so not much use regarding well drilling.
Your local drillers are really going to be your best source of info on what to expect. Keep in mind though, that conditions and depth to groundwater can sometimes vary widely in just short distances. There will be an initial cost for just showing up and getting started and then you'll be paying by the foot.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 24 Dec 2020 13:19
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I didnt spend too much time on the drillers report, I have it on hand in my safe at home. My casing is 6" , many use 4" casing. Mine is HD or industrial? It just shows topsoil, gravel, rock etc in report. Mine produced 15 gallons per minute, I am 178 feet deep, static water level is 100 feet and I am allowed no more than 5K cubic feet a day. That is plenty, why such a high limit? They dont want me to start a fruit orchard. The valleys below is all fruit crops, apples mainly, ever eat an apple? I bet it came from here.
The permit was more to let them know where it was at, not necessarily asking permission. Its got a heath dept tag banded to it IDing it. I have never had the water tested. I have drank it, taste good and I'm not dead.  It did run dark for a while, I just let it run, it cleared up after several days, then it had a slight sulfur taste, its picking up minerals etc fro mt he rock, the more you use it, the more the water flowing through the rocks will clear out and will have a nice clean taste. Its solar powered, so I will set up the panel, let it run through the day, rotate panel through the day.
I had it drilled in 06, didn't cut the cap off till 2015.
On my solar well, I use 1/2" poly pipe down to pump which is 12-36 volts and I created a small leak by piercing the pipe below the front line, this allows it to bleed off for winter.
I guy could use this set up to fill a large underground cistern by day, know you get good sunlight there and store water underground and pump from it as needed.
My well cost $8 per foot for the well casing. Total bill just for the well, not trimmed out was $8000 but steel prices were peak then.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 24 Dec 2020 13:28
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OK, found my area on that map, circled in yellow with a number. What do I do with that number?
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combatvolcano
Member
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# Posted: 27 Dec 2020 22:48 - Edited by: combatvolcano
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech OK, found my area on that map, circled in yellow with a number. What do I do with that number?
Zoom in and click and it will bring up a panel showing you the morphology. Or dig into county records (fun times)
So here's what I was quoted on a well, by an area local certified driller, maybe you guys can tell me if this is way off the mark. Property is about 5 miles down a dirt road off the pavement. (go to the middle of nowhere, turn left, and go 5 miles lol)
Keep in mind this is right up next to a mountain, extremely rocky terrain, possibly drilling through hundreds of feet of seabed slab. And this total is for a finished well, ready for power, and also a buried cistern.
"""
58 a ft to drill well possibly 400 ft
2200.00 mobilization fee, gravel pack, seal
50.00 notice of intent (permit)
a cistern and hydrant for extra cost digging would be 155.00 an hr if you need it buried plus 1000.00 for equipment mobilization
Tank 1500.00 for 1175 gallon
Hydrant 175.00
Pipe to tank depending on the length would be 1.05 a ft for 1 inch poly pipe
Half of the deposit your looking at around 25 to 28 grand total if well goes to 400 ft so half of that
"""
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 28 Dec 2020 15:22
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I called 3 different well drillers, all prices were the same per foot. I think they were all price fixing. No dealing at all. Mine was 8K, I spent about 2200 more for the solar livestock set up, plus fenced it off with 6 foot high fence, gate and barbed wire at the top.
Keep in mind, they may not hit water, still cost ya, but move to another location, may hit water.
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 29 Dec 2020 17:06
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Quoting: combatvolcano 58 a ft to drill well possibly 400 ft
Wow... is that typical now? $58/foot? I recognize that my well was drilled in 2011, but then I was charged only $7.50/ft. The entire bill for the 320' drilled was ~$3,400 (with another $1,800 for the well pump and associated plumbing out to a farm hydrant and generator hookup- or ~$5,200 for the whole thing).
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combatvolcano
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# Posted: 9 Jan 2021 20:03
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Quoting: PA_Bound Wow... is that typical now? $58/foot?
The second one I called in the area was more, like $67. It is mountain terrain, a lot of rock drilling to make a well there, and what isn't rock is filled with randomly sized pebbles. So that could be part of it. It also could be demand, northern Nevada is seeing a HUUUGE influx of people right now. It could be, that by the time I'm ready to put the well in, that the 10k property I bought will be worth 100k and I'll just move on at that point.
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