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geobuild
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# Posted: 3 Jul 2021 19:56
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Hi All,
I’ve got a 14’ x 24’ cabin being delivered July 14th and I have a question….. Here’s the situation:
- Cabin has 2†x 6†floor joists on 12†centers sitting on (5) 4†x 4†skids.
- Foundation will be 6†to 18†of fine crusher run gravel with two skids of (4) 2†x 8†x 24’ P/T (from 12 footers) sitting on five piers of one layer of 4†x 8†x 16†solid concrete block.
- There will be five joist beams of (5) 2†x 8†x 13’ P/T that the cabin will sit on.
Should I attach joist beams to skids and cabin to joist beams? If yes, what’s the best way? I plan to add eight mobile home auger anchors after the cabin is in place.
Thanks!
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spencerin
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# Posted: 3 Jul 2021 21:23
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Are you in a high wind area?
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geobuild
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# Posted: 3 Jul 2021 21:31
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Quoting: spencerin Are you in a high wind area?
No, not in a high wind area.....
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Brettny
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# Posted: 4 Jul 2021 06:48
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Your adding lumber across the skids? Maybe I'm having trouble visualizing what your doing.
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geobuild
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# Posted: 4 Jul 2021 07:03
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It's a cabin delivery issue......
The trailer with cabin will back in between the two skids and the rear 8x8 joist beam will be in place. As the trailer is pulled out, each successive joist beam will be put in place. The cabin sits 30" above the ground on the trailer and the joist beams will be 19" above.
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ICC
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# Posted: 4 Jul 2021 20:47
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Quoting: geobuild Should I attach joist beams to skids and cabin to joist beams? If yes, what’s the best way?
Yes, I think it would be good practice.
Simpson makes a variety of straps and angle brackets. Some straps have 90-degree twists that work well for some applications.
I am having trouble visualizing how you are going to slide the trailer out from under the prefab cabin and insert those heavy 5 layer builtup beams crosswise underneath and end up with the structure positioned properly aligned with nothing slipping out of place. As the trailer is pulled out what is supposed to restrain the cabin from moving? How did you arrive at the sizing and spacing for the multi-layer built up beams?
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geobuild
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# Posted: 4 Jul 2021 21:04
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I'm told that after the trailer is backed inbetween the skids with the back joist beam in place, the rear of the cabin will be over the beam. The cabin will be tied off to a tree and the trailer slowly tilted and moved forward and each of the remaining four joist beams muscled into place. Both the cabin/shed company and group building the foundation for me are local Amish......
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geobuild
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# Posted: 4 Jul 2021 21:05
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ICC... I forgot to say thanks for the Simpson idea. Wiil do that.
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spencerin
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# Posted: 4 Jul 2021 22:37
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ICC stole my thunder. Simpson Strong Ties are probably the way to go, with appropriately sized galvanized nails.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2021 06:28
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Usualy these shed trailers have the ability to push a shed off there deck. Why not just use concrete and no wood under the original skids?
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geobuild
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2021 08:49
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Quoting: Brettny Usualy these shed trailers have the ability to push a shed off there deck. Why not just use concrete and no wood under the original skids?
The property is in the Adirondack Park and I'm building under "Hunting/Fishing Cabin" rules. No permanent foundation.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2021 13:34 - Edited by: Brettny
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Exactly. I guess I dont see what the purpose is of putting the skids on girters then on blocks when you could just put the skids directly on the blocks.
Also imnprety sure the APA will need to approve the plan.
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geobuild
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2021 13:39 - Edited by: geobuild
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Quoting: Brettny APA will need to approve the plan.
I have APA approvals........
After thinking about this some more how about the following for a foundation plan?
With my cabin delivery 9 days away I am rethinking the skid foundation. I’m getting a 14’ x 24’ cabin with the following:
- 2â€x6†non-P/T floor joists on 12†centers
- Walls and roof are 2†x 6†on 16†centers with 1/2″ Roseburg Duratemp Siding and 1/2″
CDX Plywood Roof Sheathing and metal roof (vented)
- Floors are ¾†Advantech T&G
The cabin is built on five 4†x 4†skids.
The foundation will be 6†to 18†of fine crusher run gravel on 8’+ of sandy soil. I’m planning each skid will be made of four 2†x 8†x 12’ P/T nailed and glued together for a total of 24’.
Question: Can I place the skids to the inside of each outer cabin skid? That would create the following:
- 12 ½†cantilever of cabin 2†x 6†floor joists
- The cabin 2†x 6†floor joists would now span 10’ 11â€
A load calculator says 2†x 6†#2 lumber floor joists on 12†centers can span a max of 11’ 10â€. So cabin span seems fine. I know the 12 ½†cantilever is outside the suggested limit of the width of the joist (6â€) but it’s “just†an extra 7â€.
What do you all think?
Thanks!
I forgot to add...... I'm thinking about five piers of layers of three 4" thick x 8" x 16" solid concrete blocks laid at right angles to each other and pinned on all four sides with rebar for the 24' skids to sit on.......
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ICC
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2021 15:26
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Quoting: geobuild “just†an extra 7â€
That bothers me. It is not "just" 7 inches greater, it is more than double the the recommended amount. 2x6 is 5.5" true and that is the measurement that determines the permissable amount of cantilever. At least with the engineers and inspectors we worked with that is how they applied the rule.
Is there a loft? Heavy snow? Doing what you are asking places all the roof and sidewal loads on what I would call overextended cantilevers.
On the good side doing that reduces the number of places the cabin beams rest on the ground. I personally do not like closely spaced multiple beams/skids that all contact the ground. On the one hand that seems good as it will spread out the ground load. On the other hand if someplace settles or subsides. It becomes more difficult to re-level. Since neither meets any building codes it becomes a personal judgement call. But I don't like the longish cantilever.
Is that from The Carriage Shed in VT?
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geobuild
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2021 16:00 - Edited by: geobuild
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Quoting: ICC Is there a loft? Heavy snow?
No loft (peak is just 12') and we're in northern Adirondacks, average 100" snow a year.....
The shed/barn is from Adirondack Storage Barns in Burke, NY.
Question: If I move the skids to the outside of the outer cabin 4x4 skids then the cantilever is now 7" which is better but the 2x6 floor joist span goes to 12' 8" compared to 11' 10" span from span calculator. Are these acceptable on a cabin with no loft? In your opinion, do the five cabin 4x4 skids allow for pushing the limits a little?
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geobuild
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2021 16:08 - Edited by: geobuild
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Quoting: Brettny putting the skids on girters then on blocks
I was proposing blocks for 5 piers on each side, skids on the blocks then the 8x8 joist beam across on top of skids.........
I'm looking at eliminating the joist beams but pushing limits (see above)....
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geobuild
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2021 16:11
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Pics, if it helps......
Our.Cabin.Exterior.a.jpg
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Our.Cabin.Interior.D.jpg
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mj1angier
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2021 16:16 - Edited by: mj1angier
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Like others, I don't see why not just have solid block dry stacked to the height you want just sit the skids on top. Its how ours is set. Not 30in but around 24in high. Then cabled down with auger anchors. I kind of seam like your adding skids to skids.
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geobuild
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2021 17:47 - Edited by: geobuild
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Quoting: mj1angier mj1angier
Before lumber prices went crazy I was going to have a stick-built cabin done on-site and I was using Owen Christiansen's (and others) suggestion of two skids to simplify leveling. I've been trying to apply that idea to a pre-fab cabin......
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mj1angier
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2021 19:37 - Edited by: mj1angier
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He delivered and leveled ours in about a hour with just a bottle jack. If they build and deliver many of them, they can do it pretty quick
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Brettny
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# Posted: 6 Jul 2021 11:30
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How does two sets of skids simplify leveling?
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geobuild
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# Posted: 6 Jul 2021 11:58
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Quoting: Brettny How does two sets of skids simplify leveling?
Based on web reading including this excellent Forum I’m thinking more than simplify leveling…… I’m balancing cost vs how long the foundation will last with minimal maintenance….. I like the idea of two skids for strength and, in my mind, easier to level if needed. If leveling, based on reading, I’d jack up one end of the skid, shim it up at end pier and then shim remaining piers. Suggestions welcomed and appreciated.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 6 Jul 2021 12:17
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I think going with taller floor joists than 2x6 would have been my first choice of foundation rigidity and strength. If you do use a second layer of skids keep them under the walls. Dont let them stick out where they can get wet. Just toe screw the skids together at the cross sections. Lag screws are fairly cheap.
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geobuild
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# Posted: 6 Jul 2021 12:43
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Brettny: I tried to option 2x8 floor joists from the shed/cabin company but no go..... I have to make a decision by tomorrow but I'm probably going with five 2x8 skids that are glued/nailed together with a 7" cantilever......
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Brettny
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# Posted: 6 Jul 2021 19:30
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Ok I'm starting to understand. 2x6 floor joists is the thickest you had an option for. That is one of the nicer shed to cabin shells I have seen. They even used house wrap. I also like the color.
Are you going to keep it one bog room?
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Brettny
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# Posted: 6 Jul 2021 19:39
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Another option would be screwing 2x8 to each side of the current 4x4 skid. Then useing a 2x4 to fill the gap under the 4x4..not sure if this will save you any money but it would lower the floor height a bit and still make things stronger.
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geobuild
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# Posted: 6 Jul 2021 19:55
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Great minds think alike!..... That's what I'm going to do..... two 2x8s on either side of the cabin 4x4 outer skids with 2x4's to fill the gap.
All the lumber was bought in May when I thought supplies would be tough to get but any extra will be used for a 12' x 10' screened-in porch next summer.
I asked for the wrap although it wasn't an official option. Other than a small bathroom with composting toilet and shower stall the remaining space will stay open. After a year+ of planning, by the end of next week I'll be sleeping in it.
Thank you Brettny, ICC, mj1anjier, and spencerin for suggestions!
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fortysixer
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# Posted: 21 Apr 2023 18:00
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geobuild
Hi, Geobuild
I also would like to do just about what you have done.
I have property in ADK.
Can we talk via email.
Thanks, Tony
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