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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 17 Nov 2021 15:04
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So i don't have the cabin wired yet, but i bought a heavy duty extension cord into the cabin from my power pole to give me power inside the cabin. I would however like to get a porch light in to give me some light around the front door. Typically when i arrive it's dark out now, plus i'll be doing grilling and whatnot outside the cabin. So I thought about buying the fixture i want to ultimately have for the porch, and wiring it inside like it should be, but then putting a plug onto it so that i can connect it to my temp. extension cord. This way when i finally get power ran in the cabin i can just remove the cord from the switch box and then wire it in properly.
Sound like a plan or do ya'll have better suggestions.
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ICC
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# Posted: 17 Nov 2021 15:32 - Edited by: ICC
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Should work okay, with a caveat. The wire thru the wall and to the light fixture is usually one continuous length from the outside, thru the wall, and to the switch box. If you do something temporary you may need to change the temporary wire later or pre-plan enough so you can run a wire from the fixture to wherever it would be connected to in the completed wiring form.
Wall-mounted light or a ceiling, under the roof, mount?
I'm thinking this is to be a wall-mounted fixture. Attached is a picture that is pretty much self-explanatory. Basically, if the exterior wall is to be some kind of siding one of the best methods to mount a light on an exterior wall is to install a mounting block that is flat against the OSB and weather-resistant barrier. The hole through the sheathing is silicone sealed around the wires. The block shown is the same thickness as the trim stock. As well as the hole silicone there is a flashing strip on the upper edge. The siding is cut to fit up to and around the block following mfg clearances. Then the gaps are caulked. A shallow surface mount box that tucks into the fixture base could be used on that block. The block allows for good weather sealing and will keep the light positioned vertically no matter what the type of siding. We would do those on almost any wall, even ones that would be stuccoed (stucco is big here).
mounting block, wall, exterior
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 17 Nov 2021 15:54 - Edited by: WILL1E
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Quoting: ICC The wire thru the wall and to the light fixture is usually one continuous length from the outside, thru the wall, and to the switch box.
That's what i would do. Then also hanging out the switchbox would be the plug that i could connect it to an extension cord like a regular table lamp.
It would be wall mounted.
I don't know what i'm doing for siding or siding color at this point, so likely whatever block i would use would get replaced when it came to siding time.
This is the fixture i'm considering and would be centered over the door. What sort of electrical box would i use on the inside? You can see in this photo that there is no stud at the center of the door, so the electrical box and sheathing would be taking the weight of the fixture.
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 17 Nov 2021 17:01 - Edited by: travellerw
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Quoting: WILL1E This is the fixture i'm considering and would be centered over the door. What sort of electrical box would i use on the inside? You can see in this photo that there is no stud at the center of the door, so the electrical box and sheathing would be taking the weight of the fixture.
You should run a horizontal stud between the 2 studs to attach the box to. I would use a standard octagon metal box with a poly hat taped to the tyvek on the outside. That will take the weight of the light easily.
I would then probably run a tail from that box down to a double gang box lower on the wall. Put 2 outlets in that double gang box. Then have the tail with the plug come out of that box. Then you have a light and 2 double outlets for use!
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travellerw
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# Posted: 17 Nov 2021 17:06
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Quoting: travellerw I would then probably run a tail from that box down to a double gang box lower on the wall. Put 2 outlets in that double gang box. Then have the tail with the plug come out of that box. Then you have a light and 2 double outlets for use!
You could even get fancy and put a third box with a switch 1/2 way down the wall to switch the outside light.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 17 Nov 2021 17:24
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My outside lights are switched but slightly different than usual. From Switch the wires goes to a GFI Plug outside and then to light. The switch controls both the light & switch and keeps ones butt from getting zapped.
You could do similar and wire the switch->to Plug->to Light with 14/2 AWG just use an Extension Cord from the switch with the plug end on it. Then when your doing the proper wiring just swap out the extension cord end for the 14/2.
For building lights inside during construction I wanted a LOT of light but not halogen and not power hungry either... So I bought this string below and populated it with $2 60W euivalent LED bulds from Walmart... Amazingly GOOD and lot's of light
https://www.homedepot.ca/product/husky-50-ft-5-socket-temporary-string-worklight/1000 652394
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 17 Nov 2021 19:40
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Get a solar motion act. and night light?
We have a small inexpensive led one that I hang on a screw in 'cup hook', works Great.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2021 08:22
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I have 2 50' strings of LED patio lights that i had bought at costco laying around, so that's what i've got hanging on the inside. My son hung them last weekend, so i'll find out how well they light up inside this weekend.
10-4 on the horizontal stud. I had thought about that, but didn't know if that was the "right" way of doing it (for when the BI comes) or if i should use on of those adjustable boxes on a bar.
Ill probably put a 3 gang box in. Future state i imagine 1 switch for outside light, one for overhead lights inside cabin ceiling and 1 for a fan over the living area. So i like your idea of making use of the 2 empty slots!
Quoting: travellerw I would use a standard octagon metal box with a poly hat taped to the tyvek on the outside.
Is "hat" the official term for that? Trying to find them on HD or Menards site.
If i use a mounting block like ICC suggested, does the octagon electrical box stop flush with the exterior of the sheathing, or does it extend past and touch the backside of the mounting block? When i look at the install directions, it looks like the fixture mounts to the box with 2 screws. So if i use a block, seems like there would be a gap between the box and block and the block would be taking all the weight of the fixture.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2021 10:53
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Quoting: WILL1E Is "hat" the official term for that? Trying to find them on HD or Menards site.
Just search "Vapor Barrier" or "Vapor Barrier Gang" and it should come up. Poly hat is an industry term used by electricians as those items are made by multiple manufacturers under a few names.
As to the box. Its common practice for the box to be flush with the sheathing. Long screws are provided with most fixtures to accommodate wall finishing. However, if you know the finishing you are using, you can extend the box out the right amount to shorten the required screws (this is why I would use screws to attach the horizontal stud. It can be adjusted later). In that case, you probably want to purchase a DEEP version of the octagon box to ensure the wires are adequate distance from the sheathing (some inspectors are sticklers about this. If a screw could hit the wire, they will make you move it, even if its in a location highly unlikely to EVER have a screw put.)
Another thought.. You should start thinking about putting an exterior plug somewhere. In some areas its actually code that a powered building must have at least 1 exterior plugin. Its easy to rough in at this point (exact same way as the octagon box). It really sucks to get the insulation and vapor barrier up and realize you forgot it.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2021 11:23
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If i center the box above the door, the centerline of the box will be about 4 5/8" from the nearest vertical stud above the header. Would you still suggest doing a horizontal stud vs. building out from the closest one?
I think i'll just mount the box flush with the sheathing for now and wire up that light without using a block since i don't know what siding i'm going with yet.
Yeah, there will be outside outlets going in before i insulate. I need to find someone that can help me with laying out the electrical properly. i want to do it, just need someone to tell me all the details.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2021 12:01
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Quoting: WILL1E If i center the box above the door, the centerline of the box will be about 4 5/8" from the nearest vertical stud above the header. Would you still suggest doing a horizontal stud vs. building out from the closest one? I think i'll just mount the box flush with the sheathing for now and wire up that light without using a block since i don't know what siding i'm going with yet. Yeah, there will be outside outlets going in before i insulate. I need to find someone that can help me with laying out the electrical properly. i want to do it, just need someone to tell me all the details.
I would still do a horizontal 2X4 stud, but on the flat (if that makes sense). Running horizontal but the 3 1/2" face facing the sheathing and interior. The box gets screwed to the 3 1/2" face that faces the sheathing! This gives a ton of room for adjustment and allows insulation behind and in front!
As to electrical.. It really is quite easy with only a few rules. Basically, any usable part of a wall cannot be further than 6ft from a plug (so boxes every 12ft). No more than 12 devices on a single general purpose circuit. Bedrooms/sleeping areas (loft included) should be on their own circuits and must protected by Arc-Fault (2 bedrooms can share if you don't go over the 12 device limit). Kitchen counter plugs must be 20A (12-2 wire) and each plug in a double plug must be serviced by its own run (i.e. you break the tab on the plug and the top plug is on one breaker, the bottom is on another). If those kitchen plugs are within 6ft of water, they need to be GFCI protected. Kitchen counter plugs can be no farther than 48 inches away from each other! That pretty much covers %95 of the rules.
Now some things that can help. For lighting, I try to run the feed into the octagon box when possible. This means I don't need to use 3 conductor wire (which up here is WAY more money). Just standard 14-2 down to the switch. Sure, I use more 14-2, but in the long run its cheaper overall. The location I suggested for your panel was to make it easier (and cheaper) for your kitchen setup. 12-2 wire is pretty expensive and every box requires 2 runs. Having the panel there, reduces the amount of 12-2 needed as your counter is right behind that wall. Although an inspector will count your eating bar as a counter too and require plugs on it (no more than 48" apart, so probably 3). Its easiest to just GFCI protect all your kitchen plugs. You can use a GFCI breaker on each run, or GFCI plug at the first box. The GFCI plug route is cheaper, but only marginally.
Sigh.. It all makes sense when you have done it a ton, but if its your first time all that above might seem overwhelming. Having access to an electrical friend can be really helpful. Any electrician could lay your cabin out in about 20 min telling you where to put boxes and how to pull the runs most efficiently.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2021 08:28
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So i ended up buying one of these last night. however the one i bought does not have that bent piece of sheetmetal on the backside, it just has the angled nails.
So i'm just going to cut (2) 2x6's that maybe 6-10" long and sister them to the closest stud. Then i'll nail this box to it.
When running wires to an outlet, switch box or fixture box, do I always need to run the wire a certain distance along a stud and staple it to it before going into the box?
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2021 08:42
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Why bother to much with temp stuff? Just get the pannel put in and run a circuit for the front door area. That's a good area for a porch light and switches for interior lights too. In the mean time a $20 headlamp always puts light where you need it.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2021 09:48
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They only thing temp about this setup is the plug pigtail.
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Aklogcabin
Member
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2021 10:04
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Been a while since I built our house but if memory serves. Electric wires need to be fastened within 6" or 8" of the box and every 4' minimum.
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2021 12:44
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Quoting: Aklogcabin Been a while since I built our house but if memory serves. Electric wires need to be fastened within 6" or 8" of the box and every 4' minimum.
Up here its 8".. You need to be careful with the "Courtesy Tail" as some inspectors interpret the code as the wire cannot be longer than 8" from the box before being stapled.
While it wouldn't be the way I would do it, I can't see any issue with using studs like you said. There should be enough strength. I have no idea about the box as we have almost zero plastic boxes up here.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 21 Nov 2021 20:20
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Will your plan should work fine. Giving the switch box some room to the door opening is smart, it leaves room for trim. Plastic boxes are great as theres no extra ground wire that you need to pigtail. Unlike metal boxes. This makes for very quick installs and more room in each box. The boxes with the fiber in them are a bit more expensive but I feel are far stronger.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 22 Nov 2021 08:02
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Ran into a bit of an issue and didn't end up getting this light installed this weekend. The spot where the base of the light needs to be installed outside ends up right on the header above the door. For some reason i thought the light was going to be higher.
My walls are 2x6 framing. The way i did my headers was i notched the 2x6 framing for the headers so that the wall framing stays continuous into the headers. This way i can get insulation down into the headers. So i'm wondering if it's ok (for code) to run a wire into the gap of my header and then through a small hole going outside. Then on the outside i would cut a 4" hole into the sheathing (not the header) and install one of these shallow boxes. This will give my fixture awesome support...just not sure if it's ok to pass that wire through a header or not.
Thoughts?
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Aklogcabin
Member
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# Posted: 22 Nov 2021 09:16
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Yes you should be ok.
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 22 Nov 2021 11:43 - Edited by: travellerw
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I'm not sure I %100 understand, but I think you want to run the wire between the header and the outside sheathing?
If so, then most inspectors will fail that as it would put the wire too close to the outside sheathing and at risk of a puncture (if someone drove a screw or nail).
However, if you mean you have a gap between the 2 horizontal headers 2 bys. Then yes you can run up between there.
Basically the rule of thumb.. The wire must remain as close to the center of the framing members at all times. Its not possible always, but most of the time. They actually sell metal shields you can install on studs if pass through a stud, but can't keep the wire in the center. Just keep that in mind when wiring. Keep the wire as far away from each side of the wall as possible.
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snobdds
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# Posted: 22 Nov 2021 12:21
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Quoting: WILL1E just not sure if it's ok to pass that wire through a header or not.
It's not. There would be no way to protect the wire from nail hits. You would have to cover the entire header in metal.
Maybe that is ok, but I've never seen it.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 22 Nov 2021 13:59
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I should be able to keep that wire perfectly in center of the 2 headers. In that photo i posted above with the colored lines, the red "box" would now be on the header and the green wire would chase down that stud directly to the left of it and then go about 3" over, through a small hole in the header and into that shallow pan box thats mounted on the exterior surface of the header with the sheathing going around it.
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