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darz5150
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# Posted: 1 Jan 2022 23:57
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Are all lithium batteries the same when it comes to cold temps. I believe I've read here that lithium batts don't like freezing temps.
I think I may have doinked out some of my drone batts by letting them get below freezing. But I also have a lot of tools with lith batts in the same building. Should I be storing them in a warm space?
Does the same thing happen with flashlights etc?
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2022 00:26 - Edited by: ICC
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Lithium batteries like those rechargable lithium batteries used in drones, tools, flashlights, etc are not harmed by simply being cold. They contain no water. However, their effective capacity is reduced while at low temperatures. That in turn will necessitate more frequent charging if they are used at low temperatures. That more frequent recharging can shorten the lifespan.
Recharging should not be done at very low (sub freezing) temperatures. Most EV's have a cooling system. That is used for cooling electronics and batteries as well as warming the batteries. In cool weather the heat produced by the electronic power controls can be used to warm the batteries.
I believe the lower temperature limit for discharging lithium batteries is -20 C. I don't worry about it as it does not often get that cold where I am. Plus a low amp discharge will warm the battery and it is the battery temp that is important, not just the air temperature. I have noticed decreased performance from very cold lithium batteries in my ATV for example. And flashlights with rechargable lithiums don-t work as well when cold. However, the Energizer type of disposable primary lithium batteries actually work well in cold. They are different; contain lithium metal rather than lithium ions.
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darz5150
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2022 01:02
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Quoting: ICC their effective capacity is reduced while at low temperatures. That in turn will necessitate more frequent charging if they are used at low temperatures. That more frequent recharging can shorten the lifespan.
Quoting: ICC . I have noticed decreased performance from very cold lithium batteries in my ATV for example. And flashlights with rechargable lithiums don-t work as well when cold
Thanks for the info. I've noticed that sometimes that in cold temps, that there is a drop off in performance. In the drone and tools.
Do you think it would be better to keep the the batteries in a warmer spot?
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FishHog
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2022 07:45
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its the charging when they are cold that is the issue. I still have cordless tools outside at the cottage all winter and they work fine, but bring them inside and make sure they are warmed up completely before charging them.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2022 09:10 - Edited by: gcrank1
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Everything bat operated of mine works better if the tool and bats (and me!) are warm.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2022 09:35
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Thanks FishHog, I meant to say it is the charging very cold that is the cell killer.
I don't worry about where I store tool, flashlight, etc. lithium rechargeables, but do try to warm them before using IF I expect to need to get a longer use time from the charge. Otherwise, I use the device lightly until the discharge warms them. The lithium engine starting batteries are too much bother to bring in so I warm those with a few minutes of turning on the headlights.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2022 13:48
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What do the EV guys do on a cold morning to get to work?
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2022 16:21
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Make sure you have plugged in overnight and recharged. 
If plugged in, the Tesla has a climate preconditioner that allows the interior of the car to be prewarmed using AC plugged in power instead of the battery. Other makes likely have the same if they expect to sell cars in cold climates, but I have no idea about that. If the car is not plugged in then the range will be reduced. Expect that you might only get half of the summer range and you should not be surprised. Also turn the regenerative system up to max so the most energy is reclaimed when slowing as you drive.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2022 19:58
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Oh boy, we are to get to about -2*f by morning. If we had an EV out in the drive it would have to have an electric heater in it running to keep the bat-bank above 32* to be able to charge it?
A lot of our winter is like that.
This isnt sounding very energy efficient.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2022 20:46
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The battery heater, Tesla calls it pre-conditioning, does not have to run all night or during the entire charge time. Don't forget the battery produces heat while it is being charged. Once it has warmed it does not need to operate the pre-heater. FYI, the charging system electronics and motor control all produce heat, just like any electronic device. The cooling system in a Tesla can cool the electronics as necessary and then use the heat to warm the battery pack.
I have a brother in Calgary, Alberta with a Tesla just like mine. They use it and enjoy it in winter as well as in summer. They do get less range from a charge but gasoline fueled cars don't get the same mpg in winter either.
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