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OurLadyofGoodSuccess
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 16:32
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New to SCF. Building a 16x16. Need help with Roofing and Framing.
Hello everyone! I've on this site for a while no learning new information and applying it to my build
I'm building a 16x16 cabin with an A-frame roof.
I have a basic knowledge of carpentry and have been researching cabin builds for almost 5 years.
So far I have dug my posts, 6x6x16's, and am in the process of framing.
The goal is to get this cabin done by Spring as I trying to move on my property by then.
Can any offer tips? I will include a few pics.
I started building the first wall with my neighbor last March. Due to unforseen problems, I was unable to return to the build until September. Will have to knock it down as it is sagging.
I'm in a flood zone and my neighbor suggested raising the floor at least 2-3 feet off the ground.
This has been the hardest undertaking of my life so far and any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks!
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 16:51
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I think you should buy a framing book. At least you can refrence things really easily when your on site. You should also make a framing plan with every board in its place.
I'm not seeing how you framed the sagging wall but I can tell you it shouldnt be sagging
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OurLadyofGoodSuccess
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 16:53
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Hi Brettny. Thanks for the reply
The wall is sagging because of the rain over time. It took me 6months to get back to my property
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 18:15
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Welcome, and good for you that you are giving it all a go.
Sadly, it is sagging because there is totally inadequate ground support for a structure. That lumber wont be wasted but you need to really identify what kind of ground you are building on and how to do the basics of making supports for that soil for the size and weight of your structure.
Think about it this way, the cabin will only be as good as the 'foundation' you start with; ie, ya gotta start right, then do everything else right as you go up. It is the journey of a thousand miles done one step at a time.
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snobdds
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 19:12
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Quoting: gcrank1 it is sagging because there is totally inadequate ground support for a structure.
How are you getting to this conclusion from the description and pictures?
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 19:27
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Quoting: snobdds How are you getting to this conclusion from the description and pictures?
Given the fact that it looks like a 16ft span and only what appears to be 2x6..I would say that's a decent conclusion.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 19:34 - Edited by: gcrank1
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6x6 posts (treated?) into unknown ground 16 feet apart for an apparent post & beam construction without any beams. To span 16' requires more substantial lumber than what we see pictured.
If the posts would be adequate what is the plan for the floor joists, how attached to the posts, joists of what size to span 16'?
Putting up stud walls without a floor deck is premature.
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snobdds
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 20:35
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Ok, we'll assume the foundation is junk. It's time to start completely over then.
Sorry lady of good success for the news.
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OurLadyofGoodSuccess
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 21:35 - Edited by: OurLadyofGoodSuccess
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Thanks gcrank for the reply. The lumber was straight before I left it. Overtime it started to sag. We were already building the support for the wall. That's when I went through a situation that kept me from going back.
I'm going to keep going! Thanks for the motivation
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OurLadyofGoodSuccess
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 21:40
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My neighbor is a contractor who was so I'm not working in the dark. This is what the wall used to look like.
received_46829652793.jpeg
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 22:52
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That pic is what I expected it started out as. Im sorry to inform you that is not how it is done at all. From this example I cant recommend advice from your neighbor.
The good news is you did not get too far along.
Go to the library or get/buy a book on building at a minimum small storage buildings and/or garages.
That will show the sequence of construction and considerations from the ground on up. A 16x16 is not unlike a small garage.
Now, to be sure, Im not saying you have to build this 'to code', but you do need to use good, accepted building techniques otherwise your costs and time are going to be a waste.
Are the posts actually in a proper 'square'?
How do you know?
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OurLadyofGoodSuccess
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 22:54
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Why is it done incorrectly? Can you give me examples?
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Bruces
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 23:11
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What part of the world do you live in ? It’s possible they do things drastically different where you live ,but in North America at least ,we build from the bottom up Generally ,starting with a solid foundation ,the floor ,walls ,and finally the roof .What was your plan for adding in the floor ?
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OurLadyofGoodSuccess
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 23:20
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Hi Bruces. I live here in America. Thanks for the reply.
I live almost 3 hours away from my property. I was building a cabin before on another part of my land and I wound up tearing it down because that part floods badly. That's actually how I met my neighbor. He came by and told me that I needed to jack the cabin up.
He showed me how to pour the concrete for the poles and get the cabin square.
I'm with you all in that. I thought it was dumb to out up a wall first. But I'm not going to speak up against a guy whose been building houses for 20 years.
I'm just trying to get this cabin done as safely and quickly as possible. Open to all help
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 23:27
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Quoting: Bruces solid foundation ,the floor ,walls ,and finally the roof
Yes.
The member's profile lists the US as the location, so there is no way that would be considered normal or even close. The structure that was started would have sagged even worse if all four walls had been built completely before the halt. Sixteen feet is much too much separation between posts. Even if that was built as a proper pole barn type the poles would be much too far apart.
I would advise halting construction until a plan has been drawn up and the entire project thought through to completion. Inventing what one is doing while doing it is not the best method to reach a satisfactory conclusion.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 23:30 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: OurLadyofGoodSuccess I'm not going to speak up against a guy whose been building houses for 20 years.
I hope you or none of your family has spent money having this guy make things for you. What was done, what is shown in those photographs is virtually a crime.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 23:32
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Are the posts at least pressure treated wood? And if they are, is the PT graded for burial in the earth?
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frankpaige
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 23:33
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As a neophyte builder, you need to educate yourself on basic building.
Looking at those pictures make me cringe. Those long spaces without any supports is... well not good. please! Go to the library. Buy a basis construction book at a second hand store. Pre plan this build. It saddens me you put so much effort into this to tear it down.
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OurLadyofGoodSuccess
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 23:44
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We already talked about how 16 ft is too far. That's why we were going to add an other 6x6x16 in the middle of the poles.
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OurLadyofGoodSuccess
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 23:47
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We are going for a pole barn. I'm sorry I didn't make it clear. The only thing my neighbor and I did together is the wall. I found a set of plans for a 12x20 pole barn that required bottom and top plates.
These pics are bad representations as they show some sort of discombobulated build.
I going to knock down the back wall, install poles in the middle, and take down the uneven plates and adjust them.
The poles are buried at 3 feet.
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OurLadyofGoodSuccess
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 23:51
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Haven't paid my neighbor a penny. We were building, something happened in my family and he got sick. Since, I've been tickering with the project based off of plans for a pole barn.
A lot will be adjusted. I didn't even understand why we would be putting up a framed wall with 2x4s for a pole barn even with my little, and I mean little, knowledge of building.
Thanks everyone for checking in.
The goal is to build a 16x16 pole barn cabin. That for me seems to be the safest and cheapest build. Open still to help and suggestions
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 23:57
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Are the posts on concrete piers?
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2022 23:58
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What type of wood are the 6x6? Species if known. Treated or not?
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2022 00:00
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Single floor? Loft? Is there snow? How much measured in PSF?
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OurLadyofGoodSuccess
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2022 00:31
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The posts are just cemented in. Not sure of the wood species but they are pressure treated. I'm on the fence honestly but I know I have to make a firm decision based on the foundation, no pun intended, on the single floor vs loft.
Snow definitely comes here. Sometimes it can get up to 4 ft.
Not sure of the last question. How much pounds per square feet do we get in snow?
I guess I have to do a single floor for the sake of time and money. I'm not in a rush but I have to get this cabin done. Since I don't have much money or experience in carpentry, I guess I have to settle with the most basic of builds. I have to get on this land. I guess form follows function. Have to get the cabin done as I am now engaged and will be farming full time. I have more expensive in the agriculture field but I want to learn as much as possible to be a successful homesteader for my family. Thanks again, everyone
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2022 05:16
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In this situation go to a local shed builder and get a 12x16 salt box style shed delivered. This way you can meat your time line of living there next spring. If it's to small, build on at a later date when your living there and at your convenience.
How did you plan on building a floor in this? Typicaly pole barns have a poured concrete floor..and people build them because there cheap dry storage not a good air tight structure.
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2022 10:21
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Quoting: OurLadyofGoodSuccess So far I have dug my posts, 6x6x16's,
In the picture with the red ladder, I can see the top of a post. Using the ladder as reference, the posts appears to be 6x6x12. How deep is the hole?
Quoting: OurLadyofGoodSuccess The posts are just cemented in.
So the posts were set in the hole and concrete poured in and around. They were set like fence post. Your in a flood plain. I'm not sure your posts are on load bearing soil. That is why I asked if piers were poured first.
We just had a guy in Canada build a similar size in a drainage swale and his piers did not have aggregate. I was unsure if he got the concrete mix proportions correct. Several of his piers cracked apart. His almost finished cabin is going for a sleigh ride down the hill.
The foundation needs to be able to support the structure. You are asking for advice at the right time. Can you post drawings of the floor framing? Wall framing? Roof framing?
The picture of the sagging wall with no floor framing suggests your contractor friend has no clue on how to build. That wall needs to come off.
We need to start with the foundation. What is the diameter of the concrete pour? What was the composition of the concrete? Is the post on top of cured concrete or was the post set in the hole first and concrete poured around it?
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2022 10:33 - Edited by: gcrank1
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I was thinking the same about the post height and I think it was said they are in 3'.
Really I dont think a small pole shed is the thing to build unless it is going to maybe be a shed.
Do yourself a favor and take a look at the 'pre-built' sheds, complete with floors, built on 'skids'. You will get a much better idea of how a structure is put together. You can build one yourself.
The big advantage of a skid under build is it can be moved. Prep the ground, put down decent support for the skids and set/slide the building on. Move it around if you want or need to.
While living in that you can maybe start on a bigger structure, build as you have money and time, move in and the 1st cabin becomes your accessory building.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2022 10:39
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Or, buy a used travel trailer to put out there. Around here they sell cheap. Well, to qualify that, people ask more than they are worth and they come down when nobody buys....
Park it under those posts and build a peaked roof over it to keep the trailer roof intact.
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OurLadyofGoodSuccess
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2022 11:46
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Thank you all so much! I've been looking at those construction trailers a lot. They have some in my area. The goal was to have a 3ft tall floor or 4x4s or 6x6s. This part of my land doesn't flood really at all. The land is sloped.
The wall will be knocked down next time I get there. The day he was helping me is the day he got sick. I think that influenced his ideas.
So what should I do next?
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