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Link44
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# Posted: 21 Feb 2022 12:04
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Super newbie here so this may be a silly thought. I have been struggling with how much power I want versus need and how far away the full sun is from where the cabin will be.
I fell into a 3400 watt Generac propane generator from a Lance camper. I really don't want to ruin the quiet by running a generator to have lights but maybe it's ok for a movie.
We camped in our RV on the property several times last summer with a driveway gate solar panel keeping 1 deep cycle 12v battery topped of and ran a small generator for a movie on occasion.
What about running the generator to a RV converter like this 1.
https://www.amazon.com/WFCO-WF-8735-P-Black-Power-Center/dp/B004LF14Q4/ref=sr_1_2?key words=WFCO+WF-8735-P&qid=1645462713&sr=8-2
Use this as the main breaker for the cabin. Run lights and water pump off 12v, outlets off the AC breakers when the generator is running. Opinions?
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Steve961
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# Posted: 21 Feb 2022 12:18
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With a modern energy efficient LED TV I can't imagine needing to run a 3,400 watt generator to do so. I ran my small cabin off a single 100 AH 12V battery for close to 10 years, and it was able to run lights, a sterling cooler, charge tool batteries, and power a LED TV with movies on an attached hard drive. I would recommend just picking up a small energy efficient pure sine wave inverter to run it. In my case I use a Morningstar SureSine 300W inverter and have been very pleased with its performance. Lots of RV'ers use these.
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Link44
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# Posted: 21 Feb 2022 12:58
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Steve,
Were you recharging the battery with solar or taking it home to charge? How long did the battery last?
I want to keep it simple but a free generator has my wheels turning, maybe the wrong way. Thanks
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Steve961
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# Posted: 21 Feb 2022 14:08
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I am recharging with 128 watts of solar panels on my roof. I'm pretty sure it would have lasted me at least 48 hours without recharging, although that would be without charging any tool batteries or using the sterling cooler. Keep in mind that my power needs are unusually small. In the summer I'm typically running maybe 2-3 LED lights at any one time for about 3-4 hours - about 100 watt hours. My 24" LED TV uses about 25 watts and runs for 2-3 hours - about 75 watt hours. Then throw in some cell phone charging and that's about it.
I could have easily charged it at home but that would have been a huge hassle dragging it back and forth. I have recently upgraded my battery storage to about 200 AH of AGM which gives me a lot more wiggle room, especially in the winter when I need more lighting and the battery is cold when I arrive.
I still have my generator, a Honda eu2000i, but I really only use it when I need to run a non-rechargeable power tool - which is not very often.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 21 Feb 2022 14:13
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I just finished wiring my cabin. Initially I was thinking along the same lines as you. A mix of 12V and 120V lights and outlets.
In the end I abandoned that idea and just went straight 120V for everything. For 90% of my needs the cabin will be powered off an inverter (battery bank charged by solar). For the other %10 there will be a switch to allow me to power it off a generator.
Not only did it simplify the wiring by a large margin, but I'm now fully code compliant.
Another option for you may be a portable power station. We are using one now as I'm still finishing out the cabin. We have a 320Wh station and it will run all our lights and 1 laptop (for movies) all weekend. Bring it back home and charge it back up for the next weekend.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 21 Feb 2022 15:02 - Edited by: gcrank1
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Ours started out similar to an rv, a mixed 12vdc and 120vac.
When re-doing it I had it down to just 12vdc (and was used to that from van-life).
Then I had an epiphany and went straight 120vac, inverting right at the bat-bank and ran the 100ish feet from toolshed/powerhouse to cabin with a heavy-duty contractor's extension cord. The simplified cabin wiring (very simple) has been great. None of the heavy gauge wires/short runs that 12vdc requires.
I had old-school, dying, lead acid batteries through last year; choice was buy new LA at about $300-400 or go new-gen LFP at $600. I went LFP. That 100ah LFP equals 200-300ah's of LA! And is far lighter and charges Waayyy faster.
Relatively cheap LA still has a place if you dont have to move them, dont mind the off-gassing and maintenance and are Ok with a limited lifespan. Worked for me for years.....
We also use a 1700/2000w Champion inverter gen for heavy loads. It only gets used as needed, some days not at all and when used usually no more than about 1/2 hour.
This approach has been comfortable, with lots of mod-cons compared to our old off-grid cabin life with kero lamps, hand tools and a multi C-cell am/fm radio.
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DartNorth
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# Posted: 21 Feb 2022 15:02
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Our cabin is wired for 120V, just like a house, even down to split counter outlets (older code).
I debated making the lighting 12VDC, but decided on AC as for cost and compatibility mostly. LED lights are very low power consumption, and found a 300W inverter that has a very low no-load draw (Go Power Pure sine), I think it was about .25A. Some cheaper/larger inverters were 2A+. With 120VAC power on all time, it's easy to plug in chargers, tv, our small food processer. Bigger loads we start the generator.
The other thing we did was a auto transfer switch, so that when the generator is started, it switches over to that automatically. No unplugging/plugging in. I only wish we had a remote start genny for convenience. lol
I may wire in a larger inverter in the future, with a remote switch and another transfer switch so that if that inverter is on, all power would come from there. Would be great for when we need short bursts of larger draw.
We also wired a battery charger to the generator circuit so that starts charging automatically when generator is started.
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Link44
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# Posted: 21 Feb 2022 16:08
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I appreciate all the replies. Going all 120volt does sound simpler. Solar confuses the heck out of me. 1 little panel and a battery no problem but the inverters, transfer switches and conversion math gives me a headache.
I had started asking some solar questions last year before 8 dollar 2x4's halted my progress. Several folks chimed in with advice. I'll have to dig deeper and look at some of the recommended AIO systems. I am going to find a way to make this free remote start generator work for me though.ðŸ˜
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BRADISH
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# Posted: 21 Feb 2022 18:42 - Edited by: BRADISH
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Quoting: Link44 Going all 120volt does sound simpler. Solar confuses the heck out of me. 1 little panel and a battery no problem but the inverters, transfer switches and conversion math gives me a headache. I had started asking some solar questions last year before 8 dollar 2x4's halted my progress.
One way you could dip your toes in the water would be to go with a solar-less battery setup. Basically get yourself some batteries for a battery bank and find an inverter/charger that will fit your needs. Wire cabin for 120v (and potentially 12v to specific items straight from batteries if you like).
Then plan on using your generator (potentially daily based on bank size) to charge the batteries. Ideally this is when you may have increased power needs (coffee maker, etc) to make best use of Gen run time.
Then when you learn more/money up/figure out your needs you can buy the appropriate solar array and solar controller to complete your system and curtail your generator usage.
This is essentially my plan as I build my cabin, but am too financially tapped for a full solar setup for awhile. It's not the most economical plan, but beats running the genny anytime you need some power. Best of luck!
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Link44
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# Posted: 21 Feb 2022 19:38
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That's not a bad idea. I may be overthinking my needs. I suppose I should get the cabin built and go from there.
Thanks
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 21 Feb 2022 20:26 - Edited by: gcrank1
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Our place was definitely not well sited for the solar  IF you have a good site and think ahead to maybe someday going solar it will solve a lot of later headaches.
Initially I was disappointed that I could not use a roof mounted array; now Im thinking Id rather not have those racks and holes in my roof. I have ground mounts and like them...now.
I agree with running a bat-bank or maybe an all-in-one sans solar to start. (Note I have NO experience with those aio's) My quick calc show me I get more LFP amp hours for my money buying a battery and inverter than an aio unit. And not all aio's are LFP The Only Lithium Based Battery Chemistry I Can Recommend.
Thus far Ive tested out the LFP 100ah at home and run it at cabin for 2 day visits, running everything I want, and NOT come close to having to recharge it! Think under 30# for 100ah's about the same size as a lead acid battery at 70ish #s. I can easily use it all I want and bring back home to recharge. At this rate I will get 3, maybe 4 visits before recharge; amazing.
What Im getting at is that with that battery if I did not already have the solar gear I wouldnt need to be rushing into getting some. I could wire for simple 12vdc and have all in cabin or go 120vac, requiring the inverter (only use a Pure Sine Wave one!). An LFP specific battery charger to run off the gen whenever it runs would help keep it up (or do same with lead acid bat's).
Note too that LFP does not have to be kept top charged like LA.
Set up like this no transfer switching is required. When you are running off bat you are good and when you run the gen it charges the battery which still is feeding the cabin. Basically, the gen running an ac charger just replaces the solar array and solar charge control.
Quiet power most of the time and real power when needed 
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Link44
Member
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# Posted: 22 Feb 2022 00:26
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I'll look into the LFP batteries. Is 1 brand better than the other?
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travellerw
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# Posted: 22 Feb 2022 10:27 - Edited by: travellerw
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Quoting: Link44 I'll look into the LFP batteries. Is 1 brand better than the other?
If you are looking for an LFP "Power Station" then BlueTTi is pretty well regarded, but expensive. I ended up with a Ctechi unit that has been pretty great (for the price). You want to look for a station that has LiFePO4 batteries since they are much safer and have a longer life!
If you are looking for a LFP battery that you can use in place of the lead acid battery you already have, then that is another can of worms. If you think solar hurts your head, wait till you jump into the LFP pool. Its a crazy mess of brands, BMS, charging voltages, temperature and MANY opinions on the subject. Unless you are willing to spend the money and buy a big brand like Battleborn or RElion which really are a "drop-in" replacement! I'm sure others will chime in with some "drop-in" brands that may be a little cheaper then those 2.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 22 Feb 2022 10:29 - Edited by: gcrank1
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Ya pays yer money and makes yer choice.....lol
Lots of 'companies', big range of prices. Imo 'ultra-cheap' means stay away and ultra-high (Battleborn) means I couldnt afford em. And dont buy something that ships from 'Pacific Rim' with a great sounding guarantee that you pay shipping back to collect on.
Go visit on diysolarforum.com, scroll down to the 'Energy Storage' section. The learning curve starts there.
Do you have an Amish community near you? They are 'offgrid folks', been doing it like forever with bat-nank power. We have an Amish general store and a lumberyard near us, the lumberyard (which they power with solar and a gen for big stuff) is where I found my Rhino Voltz LFP (100ah/$600ish). They also have the Millertech bats at a bit more $. If I have an issue I can go back to the store; that is important to me. They have treated me Very Well.
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Link44
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# Posted: 22 Feb 2022 13:05
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I too like being able to walk into a store and talk to a person but that seems to be going away.
No Amish communities that I know of in southern Oregon. Plenty of earth friendly folks hiding/living off grid though. ðŸ˜
I will read some more. This is starting to sound more expensive than 8 dollar 2x4's. There are no $1500 batteries in my near future for sure, $600 maybe.
I am still thinking about how to incorporate my generator into the system even if it is just for heavy loads. I was reading about hooking it into a panel on the cabin like grid power to a house. The question being whether the genny had the ground and neutral bonded internally or if they need to be bonded in the panel. With the genny off I have continuity between the ground and neutral wire, does that mean it is bonded?
Thanks
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BRADISH
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# Posted: 22 Feb 2022 16:42
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Quoting: Link44 I am still thinking about how to incorporate my generator into the system even if it is just for heavy loads. I was reading about hooking it into a panel on the cabin like grid power to a house. The question being whether the genny had the ground and neutral bonded internally or if they need to be bonded in the panel. With the genny off I have continuity between the ground and neutral wire, does that mean it is bonded?
I can almost guarantee your generator manual will explicitly say whether it is floating or bonded neutral.
In terms of incorporating the generator into supply, I think if you look into inverters you will find the answer to your question.
Personally I would recommend taking a gander at the Samlex EVO series of inverter/chargers. They are pure-sine (a must have) and take care of staged charging your batteries when external power is provided (generator is running). They have tons of flexibility in programming should you so chose, but otherwise are ready to go, out of the box.
I started as a total off-grid newbie with a Samlex EVO, and I will likely be getting another because i have literally ZERO complaints about the unit.
In terms of generator integration, you simply wire power from genny to the inverter 'power supply in' and it takes care of the rest. It's smart enough to know when power is being provided to it, that it stops drawing from the batteries and allows the power to pass from the generator to the cabin wiring as well as using that power to charge the battery bank. When you shut off the generator, it has an auto-transfer switch that instantly engages the batteries to continue supplying power. Your tv/lights won't even blip. Just think of the Samlex as a smart switch between your generator power source and battery power source, to the rest of your cabin.
Here's a link to an example:
https://samlexamerica.com/products/2200-watt-pure-sine-inverter-charger-evo-2212/
A couple more points for the Samlex -
1. They have EASY TO READ manuals, that contain a WEALTH of information well beyond just the specific product.
2. They have technical service you can call who will entertain even the dumbest of questions (trust me, I tested this).
3. They're not the absolute cheapest unit out there, but provide a fantastic value for the money.
No I am not paid by Samlex, they just made quite the impression on me. Very satisfied customer. If you are going to see heavy duty loads, or want to tweak every specific parameter, a primo brand like Magnum or something may be better suited. However from what I'm hearing I think you would be well served by something similar to what I linked to.
In terms of which voltage setup of inverter / battery array you should use, that is a whole other conversation..
Good luck!
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Link44
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# Posted: 22 Feb 2022 16:58
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I love when things work the way you want them to. That sounds like it might be the ticket.
Thanks
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