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spencerin
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# Posted: 1 May 2022 23:52 - Edited by: spencerin
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Which direction do you think I should head in? Lower GPM, or lower PSI? Or both?
Here's the back story -
The setup is 2 faucets, a toilet, and a shower. I first installed a Remco Aquajet 5.3 gpm 60 psi pump, which turned out to be way overpowered for the system.
So, I then installed a Shurflo 4048 4.0 gpm 55 psi, which ran much, much quieter, but I had some rapid, hard pulsating on 1 faucet, which I was able to stop by adjusting the psi/internal bypass switch. It ran fine on all fixtures after that. This was last fall.
The pump sat all winter without any adjustments. I hooked it up today, and the pulsating recurred, but this time on a different faucet, and I couldn't adjust the psi/internal bypass to get it to stop. Interestingly, the pulsating occurred when the faucet was halfway open to full-on, and not when it was lower flow.
My guess is this pump is also too powerful for this system, too. But, just by a hair. So, I'm thinking I have to downsize again.
I'm looking at dropping down to 3.0 gpm, but the 2 pumps I'm looking at (Shurflo Revolution and Seaflo 42 Series) both are 55 psi still. Does this seem like a psi issue, too, to where I should drop down in psi also?
The Shurflo and the 2 pumps I'm looking at have the internal bypass, which should've stopped the hammering, which is making me question the psi/internal bypass.
I know I could get a constant-flow pump and connect it to an accumulator tank, but that's extra connections/leak points. The way the Shurflo ran last fall was really nice, and it's nice to have only a pump to worry about.
What would you do from here?
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FishHog
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# Posted: 2 May 2022 05:41
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since you just started up, and it was OK last fall, are you sure all your lines are clear of air? I'd run a good amount of water through every part of your system to make sure there are no air pockets and try again before spending the money.
After that, I'd personally go lower volume. My 2.1gpm seems to be more than enough for us. I can't remember the pressure off the top of my head
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Brettny
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# Posted: 2 May 2022 08:01
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Pulsing can be fixed with a pressure tank. But typicaly with these if your not getting pulsing and dont have a pressure tank your pump never turns off and are useing more water than the pump can supply and it never reaches the shut off pressure.
They make a small pressure thank built for these pumps but honestly I would just buy the smallest steel one a big box store can get you. It will cost about the same and no be plastic.
Our 2.5gpm is far to small for even a shower.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 2 May 2022 09:29
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Think I remember seeing a no-hammer 'buffer tank', about a 1 gal size, that looked easy to plumb in. It was when I was looking at renovation stuff for old house issues (yeah, got one...).
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spencerin
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# Posted: 2 May 2022 10:15
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The cold water line running to the faucet that hammered has the line running to the toilet branching off it. The plastic nut attaching the supply line to the toilet tank was cracked/leaking, probably due to freezing. So, I'm wondering if all the air wasn't out of the toilet line - I could've shut the valve off to stop the leaking before testing the faucet (don't remember). That said, the faucet hammered when either hot or cold, or both, was opened, and also when another faucet was open at the same time.
This still makes it seems like it's the pump, but what do you think?
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 2 May 2022 11:08
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Quoting: spencerin pulsating recurred
Does that mean the pump turns on and off while the faucet is only partially open? That would be normal behavior. Or maybe I don't understand.
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spencerin
Member
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# Posted: 2 May 2022 11:48 - Edited by: spencerin
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It was actually rapid hammer-like pulsating from like 30% to full open, not at low flow. And it was just that one faucet - the other faucet, shower, and outside water spigot were fine.
AND, the rate of pulsating increased as the flow increased. So, when it was at, say 33%, flow, it pulsated once every second, whereas at full open it was like it was going to vibrate everything loose. They were at perfectly regular intervals, too. If it were air in a line, I'm thinking it wouldn't have had such a pattern.
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spencerin
Member
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# Posted: 2 May 2022 12:37
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I also have a question related to pressure tanks -
Do they need to be *fully* drained and anti-freezed in the wintertime? My thought process is if it's drawn down as low as possible and that's it, it'll be ok. It can obviously handle increases in pressure, so freezing water/expansion in this case shouldn't be an issue.
I could also be wrong on this.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 2 May 2022 13:34 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: spencerin It was actually rapid hammer-like pulsating from like 30% to full open, not at low flow.
Seems really odd. To have noise from the pump is normal but anything like hammering sounds all the way to full open does not make sense. Those pumps do make noise but I would not use the word hammer to describe any I have had. The pumps have rubber feet and one should always use flexible loops of hose for the connections to assist with damping the sound.
Is this your first RV water pump experience? If so, have you ever heard the system in an RV or any other cabin that uses such a pump? Is what you are experiencing worse than that?
Can you do a video with the sound?
Also a question...
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 2 May 2022 13:59
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Quoting: spencerin I also have a question related to pressure tanks -
Good question but I don't have a definite answer. In an RV w/o a pressure tank one does not have that concern. Same thing at the cabins I had; never had a pressure tank in them.
There is a flexible bladder in the tank to keep the water section separate from the air pressure section. Could freezing maybe damage the bladder?
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FishHog
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# Posted: 2 May 2022 16:39
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I'm sure a pressure tank will survive a freeze, but how many times I couldn't say. I'd be inclined to drain it, or flush the system with RV antifreeze.
Or mount it vertically so it won't hold any water when you drain your system.
Oh and I'll correct my pump spec's its 2.9gpm. I had to check when Brettny said 2.5 wasn't enough for a shower. I think plumbing setups can make a lot of difference, but my pump is more than enough for a shower, its almost the same as my household shower
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 2 May 2022 17:12 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: FishHog I think plumbing setups can make a lot of difference
There are a number of low flow rate shower heads available that work well, IMO. I have a couple of 1.5 GPM, forget the brand right now but I could find that info if anyone wants to know. Makes a difference when one is rationing water.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 2 May 2022 18:05
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If the pressure tank is higher than the draining piping it shouldnt require any extra work, right?
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BRADISH
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# Posted: 3 May 2022 11:28
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I would probably look into a small accumulator/buffer tank to take out the water hammer. There is a Sureflow model I'm looking at on Amazon for our cabin water system that has the pump and accumulator mounted on a plastic skid with anti-vibe rubber mounts for attaching to the wall. Something like that in addition to a smaller gpm/psi pump sounds like it might solve some of your issues.
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spencerin
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# Posted: 8 May 2022 09:29 - Edited by: spencerin
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Well, I'm 99% certain I found the problem, which wasn't the pump. There's a valve in the kitchen sink that diverts water to the spray nozzle. I don't know with absolute certainty how it was malfunctioning, but I think it would open as a pressure relief mechanism, then close immediately, open then close, and repeat. The higher the water volume, the faster it would repeat. I'm just going to replace the faucet with a non-sprayer version.
The bad news, which isn't all that bad, is that I bought a replacement pump and tank combo thinking the pump was originally the issue. I like them, so I'm not going to return them.
So, what I have extra is a barely-used Shurflo 4048 High Flow 4.0 GPM pump. If anybody wants it, I'll sell it for a reasonable discounted price. The cheapest I could find it was on Amazon for $187.99 (I paid a lot more for it from Camping World). It'll come with the strainer, 2 fittings, manual, and original box. The pump is perfectly fine, I just don't need it now.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 8 May 2022 13:05
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We have a lower than 'normal' water pressure system at home. Without enough pressure at the low end, before the pump comes on, the kitchen sprayer wont 'activate'. I had to adjust the pressure switch 'cut on' by +5psi. It is the higher pressure that allows it to open the sprayer but only when you press the sprayer lever.
If we didnt want to use the sprayer it didnt matter.
Even so, we never had what you experienced. Id be waiting a while to be sure about this.
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spencerin
Member
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# Posted: 16 May 2022 01:21
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I removed the sprayer and put the plug in. Problem solved for less than $10. Thank you, Lord! :D
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