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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2022 13:57 - Edited by: Grizzlyman
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Hi all-
I’m putting the finishing touches on my wood fired sauna.
I bought a roof flashing kit from menards- Selkirk made.
This kit contains a boot, a complicated spacer contraption to keep the boot away from the chimney, and a storm collar.
When I did my cabin I followed the instructions to a T with the spacer. I get that it’s supposed to be universal- but I don’t think the spacer could have been engineered any worse on purpose….
For My sauna However it is a very small stove… and I don’t know that double wall will really get THAT hot anyways... do I really need the spacer contraption? Or can I mount the boot tight right to the double wall chimney?
My chimney is supported by a chimney brace kit on the roof and cathedral box below as well as being supported by stove and stack as it is is tight and straight down to the stove.
Yes this is against directions from manufacturer- but is it really necessary? Or just a cya? Or just meant to be more universal for a very hot burning stove?
I see many installs where the boot is directly on the chimney…
I’ve also seen where maybe the material makes a difference- whether is silicone or HDPE. Not sure what this one is- just says rubber.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2022 14:26
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Ummm
Do you really want to be doing this twice?
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2022 14:34 - Edited by: Grizzlyman
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gcrank1
No. Which is precisely why I’m asking 
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2022 16:06
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Quoting: Grizzlyman I’ve also seen where maybe the material makes a difference- whether is silicone or HDPE. Not sure what this one is- just says rubber.
I think if it says "rubber" it is an EPDM boot.
I am most familiar with the Dektite brand of flexible boots. Their present offerings are Red, black, and grey. Only their red boots are silicone, the others are EPDM.
IIRC, the red silicone ones are rated as being good to almost 400 F and the black and grey to about 240 F. I have seen s/s insulated dual wall pipe reach 250 F on the outside surface of the pipe with a vigorously burning fire.
So in theory I think a person should be safe-enough (whatever that means  ) using a black or grey EPDM type with direct contact with an insulated dual wall pipe. But that assumes that the operator does not run hot-hot fires for longer than whatever length of time it might take to reach 250 F on the outside surface of the pipe. It will take a little time.
Yes, one does see a lot of installations with EPDM boots directly contacting dual-wall insulated chimney pipes. But then I see a lot of people doing all sorts of things that they technically should not be doing. Myself included at times. Most of the time we get away with it. Sometimes we don't.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2022 17:23
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Just wrap the pipe with some asbestos cloth 'tape'.
Oh, thats right, cant do that anymore.....
All the ductwork in my old house (done back in the late '50s?) has that on the joints. I cant 'disturb' it, have to hire an asbestos remediation firm.
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2022 17:55
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ICC
That’s what I was thinking. Thanks. Got my plastic wrong… at least I got 3/4 letters
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2022 18:42
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HDPE = milk jug plastic.... I knew whay you meant to say as HDPE wouldn't be used for chimney snything; unless maybe to package chimney
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2022 20:18
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I have come to expect if the package/literature doesnt say 'silicone' (just like with inverters, if it doesnt say 'pure sine wave'), it isnt.
And even then it has become 'buyer beware'.
Dbl Check.
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Grizzlyman
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2022 20:37
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gcrank1
I expect it’s not silicone- or I agree it would say so instead of just “rubberâ€.
My main concern is that I can’t foresee the double wall pipe getting hot enough to do anything on a small sauna stove. The firebox is about the size of a shoebox on the stove.. harvia m3if you want to check it out… I ran it for a few hours this last weekend and the double wall was barely even warm.
… and even then it’s not like the “rubber†is going to catch fire at 200 degrees even if it got that hot… that’s my only real concern.
I thought I’d just check with this group to see if anyone had a real world experience with this!!
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2022 21:02
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Lol, it sounds like You have the 'First Hand Trial'.
Given the few hours burn and all if you can hold your hand on it the rubber likely wont 'burn', but over time it may dry our and develop cracks?
Is there a small rain collar available you can fit above it just to shed water away from the contact zone?
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2022 21:18 - Edited by: Grizzlyman
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gcrank1
I’m sure I’m not the first.. it’s been sold thousands of times and is the only one menards sells (that I am aware of)
But yeah There is a storm collar. In fact the whole point of the spacer is that there is a 1†gap anyways between the chimney pipe and the boot….So the boot isn’t meant to waterproof the chimney itself anyways. just the area AROUND it. The storm collar is actually meant for the chimney itself and to cover the 1†space. Water is supposed to roll off the storm collar and onto the boot.
Funny enough the storm collar is also a PITA just like the spacer. It’s simply just a rolled up piece of 6â€steel that you need to roll tight over the chimney , fold some Tabs over, and tighten and then screw in place and seal with silicone. Considering the fact that this whole kit is meant for 6†pipe only I don’t understand why there’s not just a piece that “fits†over the pipe included. Again… could be a hell of a lot easier.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2022 07:44
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I put a red high temp silicone boot on our metal roof when I put the 6in insulated pipe through. I believe it was about $65 and a tube of flashing cement was $7-8. It's been 3 years with no issues and it was my first time installing one.
You really cant properly flash a chimney pipe to metal roofing useing just metal, unless it's right at the peak and even then its very hard.
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2022 08:47
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Brettny
Hey brett- did you put a storm collar over the boot? or just seal the chimney pipe to the boot opening?
Also- FYI the boot kit I bought for my cabin was about $120 ish last year if i remember correctly. $199 now 
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Tim_Ohio
Member
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2022 08:56
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I used the gray with standard clear silicone. It's a straight run from a one story with double wall pipe only through the roof. I've had no problems and recently inspected it. Here is a photo of how it looked.
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Tim_Ohio
Member
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2022 08:57
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Here it is.
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Tim_Ohio
Member
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2022 08:58 - Edited by: Tim_Ohio
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here it is
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Tim_Ohio
Member
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2022 09:02
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Any tips on correcting the orientation of a pic. It's oriented properly in the original. I tried using a rotated version, but that did not work.
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2022 09:11
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Tim_Ohio
So Tim. Gray- does that mean EPDM?
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2022 09:41
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Quoting: Grizzlyman Hey brett- did you put a storm collar over the boot? or just seal the chimney pipe to the boot opening
No storm collar but it wouldnt hurt.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2022 10:20
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I think the only reason that Selkirk kit uses a storm collar is to avoid direct boot to metal pipe contact.
I/we have used Dektite boots since the 70's or very early 80's at least. (I recall installing a one on a chimney in a new addition when a son was born in Jan 1981).
They were first made in Australia right after WW2. That is what we used on every metal roof penetration from small vent pipes, electrical masts, chimneys, everything. They are very good, great when sealed to clean metal with silicone sealant.
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Tim_Ohio
Member
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2022 10:54
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Yes. It is the EPDM. So far, no problems. Mostly, the storm collar protects the boot from damage by a tree branch or ice. It's pretty high on the 4/12 pitch roof and I did not think ice would be a problem there was not much distance for the ice to slide into it. It's been three winters without any problems.
Tim
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2022 10:58
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Yeah after looking at dektite silicone now I would 100% do that. Silicone is only a few dollars more than epdm and readily available on Amazon- and over $100 cheaper than the Selkirk.
I suppose the only disadvantage of a tight boot in theory is that the heat inside the support box doesn’t have anywhere to go up since it’s not vented… but you can’t really argue with tens of years and thousands of installations…
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Tim_Ohio
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2022 12:50
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Actually, I just realized I did use silicone. It was gray silicone and I forgot. Here is where I got it.
https://www.flashingsdirect.com/9-universal-pipe-flashing/
Tim
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shingobeek
Member
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# Posted: 18 Oct 2022 18:45
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I have the same kit, N MN, on my sauna roof, metal roof, just like yours....but no storm collar.......been there 3 years looks fine to me, works great......I have fired up the stove in sauna to 200F in the room and then climbed up there to feel the rubber...cool to touch....I think your good to go....I figure I have to re-do that stuff about every 12 years, but I do use it several times a week year round!
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 18 Oct 2022 20:26
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shingobeek
Hey thanks! I figured that was the case but great to hear first hand experience!
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2022 14:30
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We got it HOT this weekend in the sauna- 200*. Double wall was fairly cool to touch outside and just touchable inside.
I Did put the storm collar and supports on as well. Boot is still touching pipe but it is fine and that’s how it’s going to stay!
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2022 16:09
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The boot is suposto touch insulated pipe. The storm collar isnt there to seal that junction.
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2022 18:10 - Edited by: Grizzlyman
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No it’s not. There is a spacer/shield. It’s stupid.
https://www.selkirkcorp.com/literature/Rubber_Boot_Flashing_Kit_(URBAKS).pdf
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scott100
Member
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2022 09:18 - Edited by: scott100
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Yes, the spacer thing is for venting. Even on my all metal Duratech roof flashing, the flashing is made in a way that it vents the outside of the chimney and requires a storm collar to keep the rain out. I still think sometimes snow could blow under and a little find its way in.
By the time I added a big Duratech snow splitter, the whole affair looks like an cobbed afterthought to my eye when put on a metal roof. I wish there was a better way but I wasn't able to find anything I liked any better. The simple silicone boots look a little more minimal, at least.
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ketchgould
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# Posted: 15 Nov 2022 13:56
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I installed the grey one this weekend and inspected it after two days; works fine.
I cut the plywood roof deck about an inch from the class A chimney, is that too close?
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