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Small Cabin Forum / General Forum / DIY underground power install Help Appreciated
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skinnersone
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2011 01:05 - Edited by: skinnersone
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Long time lurker but finally building my small cabin. I am planning on running 2oo amp underground service 200' along my driveway.

I am hoping someone who has run underground wire themselves could help explain to me or point me in the right direction to a good guide with pics. Just trying to wrap my head around it and decide if I can handle it.

At the very least it will save me some money being well informed and doing what I can like digging the trench and buying the meter box, wire myself.

So is this accurate.

• Place meter box on my own pole. Do I need a telephone pole like they use or a smaller one?
• I then dig a trench from meter box to cabin and place the wire in.
• Connect that wire to the main panel in the cabin
• Make the connection to the meter box
• Call Utility have them inspect, install meter, hook up power
• Backfill trench
• Enjoy

Rob_O
# Posted: 5 Aug 2011 01:46
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You have the basic idea, talk to your utility about specifics like meter location. Around here they want the meter on the building if possible.

You may be able to buy the wire from the utility for less than free market price, ask them.

caveman
Member
# Posted: 5 Aug 2011 06:31
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here's what I did. The utility company trenched from their line to this meter box for the fee to join their co-op. The meter can and 200 amp panel came from home depot. If I remember right the first 100 feet was free and after that it was 8 dollars per foot
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neb
Member
# Posted: 5 Aug 2011 22:54 - Edited by: neb
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skinnersone

If you have the primary line to your land then it is what you need to do in your post. We like to attach meter loop and disconnect right on the transformer pole and have consumer bury their line to the house.

From the disconnect on the pole you bury the line hook it up in breaker box. From the breaker box inside your home you take wires where you want to go.

It sounds like you have a plan and you are on track.

Malamute
Member
# Posted: 5 Aug 2011 23:15 - Edited by: Malamute
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Your plan is pretty sound. I believe they want electric buried 16" deep, I go a couple inches deeper just to be extra sure. I always run mine in plastic conduit, but the ground is very rocky here, you may not need to, just where it comes out of the ground. They may like it bedded in sand tho.

Do a volt drop calculation (there are online calculators) to be sure you have the correct gauge wire. The target is 3% or less volt drop for your run from the pole to the house. I've run some longer runs and had to get pretty heavy wire to make full voltage.

If you use conduit with heavy wire, I run the wire out on the ground, and walk the conduit along the wire and glue each in place, pulling heavy cable can be hard by hand. Don't make the conduit too small, there's a spec for the size wire you use.

The utility companies will set a pole for your meter here, or a meter base if an underground feed at the end of their line, then it's up to you. Check local regs also, some places want a shutoff at the outside of the house if the meter (and main shutoff) is a certain distance away. It's easier to do it on initial construction than add later if you need it.

neb
Member
# Posted: 6 Aug 2011 00:11
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Malamute

You have great advise and you been there and done it.

The only thing is NESC is the min. depth must be 18 inches for low voltage secondary wire (120/240 volt).

Malamute
Member
# Posted: 6 Aug 2011 10:22
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Good point, thanks for the correction on the number.

Been a couple years since I ran a line.

From seeing your posts, you're the answer man for electric. Looks like you're in the util line.

neb
Member
# Posted: 6 Aug 2011 13:11
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Yep, for 30 plus years.

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 6 Aug 2011 16:40 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Quoting: skinnersone
So is this accurate.

• Place meter box on my own pole. Do I need a telephone pole like they use or a smaller one?
• I then dig a trench from meter box to cabin and place the wire in.
• Connect that wire to the main panel in the cabin
• Make the connection to the meter box
• Call Utility have them inspect, install meter, hook up power
• Backfill trench
• Enjoy


You can get a "temp meter" pole set up. It doesnt need to be a round pole, in fact, a nice treated 6X6 will work, easier to mount the box to a square pole and many hardware stores will build you a complete temp pole, meeting requirements etc, just dig and plant, a bit more $$$, but you know its right. As for digging, check depth. Power has its own fixed depth. I think its like 36". They standardized it, like air traffic control, all has their certain levels. Usually the most dangerous is lowest (underground), while on poles (above ground), its the highest. Water is an exception, it varies depending on your frost line.

I know the wire must go through conduit (plastic underground CPVC stuff and must have the any chaffe rings on the ends where it goes under a road. But you are going down a road, it may all have to be covered. This is required in my area, but it can vary by state or even vary by county. The conduit leaving the pole under ground needs to be secured all the way down the pole, not just above grade. An electrical inspector will sign off or maybe the utilitie company itself will OK it. It must meet their requirements for them to hook it up. Once its hooked up, do as you please. Just be safe.

200 feet will require some large wire, much more $$$.

neb
Member
# Posted: 6 Aug 2011 17:33 - Edited by: neb
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech
You can get a "temp meter" pole set up. It doesnt need to be a round pole, in fact, a nice treated 6X6 will work, easier to mount the box to a square pole and many hardware stores will build you a complete temp pole, meeting requirements etc, just dig and plant, a bit more $$$, but you know its right. As for digging, check depth. Power has its own fixed depth. I think its like 36".


The only thing is NESC has the min. depth must be 18 inches for low voltage secondary wire (120/240 volt). You can go 10 feet deep if you want. (18 inches is the min.) If in PVC pipe legally you can run on top of ground but wouldn't advise that method.

As far as 6x6 that is fine and if I where you I would use that as your permament service. I would never mess around with temp. services. Just get the right meter base and disconnect right from the git go and plant that post close the cabin. You can have some plugins on the post so you can do your building and will be there after const. for your use. Once you are done building run the power to the shack and you are done. No messing around with temp. it is a done deal. Have a plan if you ever want to have power somewhere else on that land and centralice the meter base and disc. and have provitions with some breakers for you to go where you want to go with power. No need to ever talk to the electric comp. again. Everything on the load side of that meter is your's and you can bury wire where ever you want.

If you attach meter to house then you have to come from there to get power somewhere else. This is mosre costly in the long run. Remember have a plan where you may want power and centralice the service so that one run to cabin is about the same lenth to where you want to go with some other wire.

steveqvs
Member
# Posted: 6 Aug 2011 18:03 - Edited by: steveqvs
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I think you have gotten a lot of good info but I will add my 2 cents in too. I have not run my power line yet but I just purchased all the wire etc.

I am running my to a camper now and for the future cabin.
In our location we actually had to have the poles installed on the country road. I contacted the electric coop and gave them the number on the pole. Their engineers came out to tell me their requirements. So you will want to call them and meet to make sure you are meeting their minimum standards. Their responsibily is to put the meter on the telephone poll at the end of my driveway. My driveway is 300 feet. Over 200 feet they say there is loss and if you want 200 amp at the cabin you have to put a transformer in. I really don't need 200 amp so I purchased 300 feet of 4 /0 (4 ought) cable. Its aluminum and is 4/0 4/0 2/0. Since I am hooking to a camper now I also bought #2 wire for a ground all the way back to their pole. 2 inch plasitc conduit.

I talked to serveral people and here is the plan. My backhoe guy is going to trench the middle of the driveway about 2 feet deep or so. We will gule up 3 conduit sticks or so at a time. After the 3 are put together we will use a wire fish tape (home depot or lowes sells them) and pull some rope thu. continue that til its complete. The wire on a spool will be hung between 2 ladders on a pipe. I will have one person use electrical lube for cable pulling (also right by the fish tape at my home depot) and feed the cable as I pull the rope til its were it needs to be. According to the calculations it wont be 200 amp but since the wire is large it will be close enough.
Now at my location the power coop wants to put the meter on the pole at the end (beginning ) of the drive way. Other power companies put it on the cabin. I also purchased a special "pass thru" outdoor electrical box in case the cabin ends up being located further away from the box. And plan on mounting it on a 6x6 pole.

hope this helps and doesn't confuse. Its probably overkill but I only want to do this once!

neb
Member
# Posted: 6 Aug 2011 18:11 - Edited by: neb
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You can run 300 ft with 4/0 wire with no problem for voltage drop. There are many many services with 1/0 that go that distant and farther and have no problem. This means from the transformer to your service.

And yes I would install 200 amp meter base and disconnect with provisions with breakers so you can run power to other parts of your camp.

Some of these electric comp. will not tell you some of thse things just because.

Anonymous
# Posted: 6 Aug 2011 21:40
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Since I started researching I have noticed several underground power meters located right at the beginning of the driveway (most places here have gates at the entrance) on a 6x6.

I had intended on running multiple lines back from the meter base while I have it all dug up. I would only hook up one meter for the forseeable future but 3 total sites need power. URL

Neb, I basically need 3 seperate meters one day. Going to sell a 2 acre lot eventually and building 2 cabins now. They could share a meter but if I eventually sell one of those figure its easier to deal with it now.

You make a great point about centralizing the meter to the cabin and future cabin. It would probably be cheaper to run a very large line to the meter box on a 6x6 and then run a smaller 200 amp line to the cabin and have capacity for the lot for sale and a 2nd cabin of my own.

Can I run one line back 200 feet to the meter that would have capacity to eventually handle (3) 200 amp services. Again for now I just want to go as cheap as possible but figure if I have the trench I mights as well get it all done right now and not have to deal with it again.

Steve, would love to see some pics if you have any. I will be sure to detail my efforts. Talking to utilities tomorrow. Hopefully it goes well. Thanks everyone.

Anonymous
# Posted: 6 Aug 2011 21:45
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My Cabin for anyone wondering. 200 amp may seem alot for the smaller cabin but there will likely be an rv or two in her front yard so will have a few outdoor hookups. Site Pics Tomorrow
URL

neb
Member
# Posted: 6 Aug 2011 23:00
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Quoting: Anonymous
Can I run one line back 200 feet to the meter that would have capacity to eventually handle (3) 200 amp services. Again for now I just want to go as cheap as possible but figure if I have the trench I mights as well get it all done right now and not have to deal with it again.


If you mean back from the transformer the answer is yes. The problem you will have is the 3/200 amp services you want to run of off one meter. It can be done but it won't be the standard service and meter installation. To meter that service you will have 600 amps total and I know you won't use all 200 amps on on eof those services but it still is rated at 200 amps. Anyway you would need a 600 amp service and that is big money if you want to run them off of one meter. It would have to be instrument metered with CT's.

If you could get by with 3/100 amp services you can go with a 320 class meter base and be legal and insulated for 300 amps. If I where you I would see if you can go with 3/100 amp services. The cost of this service will be a lot cheaper and do you the same thing. You will need to see if you can use a 100 amp service for this cabin. I do know a full blown house has to be 200 amp service. I hope I helped you.

Rob_O
# Posted: 6 Aug 2011 23:59
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Quoting: Anonymous
I basically need 3 seperate meters one day. Going to sell a 2 acre lot eventually and building 2 cabins now. They could share a meter but if I eventually sell one of those figure its easier to deal with it now.


I believe your best move would be a trough with a 600A service and a separate meter, line and disconnect for each property. You will pay more now but it will save you headaches in the future

skinnersone
Member
# Posted: 7 Aug 2011 01:58 - Edited by: skinnersone
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Neb,

"I would only hook up one meter for the forseeable future but 3 total sites need power."

Sorry I should have been more clear. It was poorly phrased. Thanks for your patience.

I am only building 1 cabin to start so just need one meter for now and I will only draw power from that one location and not all 3. I just wanted to run a big enough wire, or 3 wires, to allow me to install 2 more meters later (when I sell the one lot and build the 2nd cabin) to avoid needing to retrench. So each would have a seperate meter. I worded it badly. But you have been very helpful. I appreciate it.


Rob_0,

Thanks for your imput also Rob. My problem is I am cash poor. If I ran a 600 amp line now can I just hook up the 200 amp for my cabin and purchase just one meter and disconnect for now? And then later add the other meters and disconnects. Or would I need to buy all 3 meters and disconnects right off the bat?

Would really like to avoid retrenching but 3 meters, 3 disconnects, wire, etc is more than I can swing right now.

The disconnects are extremely expensive. I found 200 amp mobile home disconnects for $130 but any one that doesn't say mobile home is $400-1500. Am I missing something?

Meeting with the utilites Monday and I feel like at least I know what to ask now. Thanks guys.

Rob_O
# Posted: 7 Aug 2011 11:36
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Quoting: skinnersone
Thanks for your imput also Rob. My problem is I am cash poor. If I ran a 600 amp line now can I just hook up the 200 amp for my cabin and purchase just one meter and disconnect for now? And then later add the other meters and disconnects. Or would I need to buy all 3 meters and disconnects right off the bat?


That depends on the your utility. If it was up to me, I'd allow you to run all three lines at once and just leave the unused ones sticking out of the ground. Meet with your utility and see what they have to say

neb
Member
# Posted: 7 Aug 2011 11:55
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skinnersone

One thing to keep in mind is how far are all 3 of these service you from just one transformer. If you can central your transformer so they or you can run from there to all 3 services and the lenght of service wire isn't to long you can run 3 services from there.

If the distants is to far for all 3 service to come from one tub then power comp. will have to install another tub and bury more primary cable (7,200 volt) to serve the other meters you want.

steveqvs
Member
# Posted: 7 Aug 2011 19:32 - Edited by: steveqvs
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What about just putting 3 seperate conduits in place for the other two with rope inside the conduit to pull wires later as needed for the other 2.

Sorry I have no pictures yet but I will take some when trenching it in a couple of weeks from now.

neb
Member
# Posted: 7 Aug 2011 20:00
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Quoting: steveqvs
What about just putting 3 seperate conduits in place for the other two with rope inside the conduit to pull wires later as needed for the other 2.


That's is a good idea and we do that from time to time. You won't have all that money tied up in wire till you need to do the other services.

skinnersone
Member
# Posted: 7 Aug 2011 22:08
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Quoting: steveqvs
What about just putting 3 seperate conduits in place for the other two with rope inside the conduit to pull wires later as needed for the other 2.

Sorry I have no pictures yet but I will take some when trenching it in a couple of weeks from now.


I really like that idea. While I had the trencher I could trench and bury conduit right to the 3 sites too. Should speed up the other 2 installs and save me the upfront money.

I am going to call the utility, price the different options, and choose what works best both short/long term. Thanks for your help guys and I will post up my diy.

steveqvs
Member
# Posted: 5 Sep 2011 22:22 - Edited by: steveqvs
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okay last wednesday I installed my cable and you can see the write up here......

Installing Electric Service

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