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Erins#1Mom
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2011 14:02
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OK,
I'm not sure if I have asked this before (memory getting worse daily). What is the recommendations of you with a knowledge of handguns for a handgun for a woman? I will need a gun of some sort while working at cabin site. I will be taking a carry permit class in the next few months but wanted to research this before I buy anything.
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Malamute
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2011 15:14 - Edited by: Malamute
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What part of the country, meaning what critters are you likely to encounter?
Revolvers are much simpler to use for folks not familiar with guns. Semi-autos have their own advantages. If possible, shoot some different guns before deciding. If there's a local range, going on a saturday and walking around, (take your ear plugs!!) and asking if you can look at and shoot a few different things would probably be worthwhile. Some ranges rent guns also. Asking at a couple different gun shops may yealid soem palces and times that you could handle and shoot some differnt things.
Many gun folks tend to get tunnel vision, what they like is the bestest thing that ever happened, as to make, model, caliber, etc. I would say take your time, and keep it basic. Concealed is more problematic than open carry, or casually concealed, as in a belt holster that you can wear a jacket or shirt over, but don't really need to conceal it like in town.
I've carried daily off and on for 30 years or so, mostly open out in the hills, and in grizzly country much of the time, what works for me may not be best for you. I carry a 44 magnum or 45 Colt with heavy loads, but you likley don't need anything that heavy. A 38 speciall or 357 magnum revolver (the 357 can also use 38 special cartridges for lighter duty or practice shooting) in a medium frame revlover, or small frame if concealed is an issue, is hard to beat for a general purpose gun that's relatively easy to use and shoot well.
Don't be afraid to buy a decent used gun, espcially something like a Smith & Wesson revolver, you can save some money, and often get a better gun than is made today. Best if you have someone truly well versed in used guns to go along and look at your prospective purchase tho, to see if it's free of basic issues.
You could also go to a gun related forum like The High Road or The Firing Line and do a search for people asking the exact thing you're asking, or you could join and post the question. Another resource is a site called The Cornered Cat, by Kathy Jackson. Its oriented towards women and guns, and will probably have some good reading for you.
http://corneredcat.com/
Beware, shooting can be a fun hobby, and open up a new world for recreation and family and friends having fun. Not just the shooting, but reading, learning, meeting new folks, and often a bit of history.
I would add, if you choose to get a gun, spend enough time to get truly familar with it, not just "OK, I've shot a box or two of shells, I know what I'm doing". Shooting at least every month or two for a while to keep what you've learned fresh, until its second nature, and several times a year after that will go a long ways towards letting your gun be as effective as it can be in your hands. The more you shoot, the better you will be, and the easier it is to use. You may enjoy shooting, and keeping in practice won't be a chore.
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naturelover66
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2011 15:30
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Erins Mom-------- I remember a few months ago i asked a simliar question...... and got alot of good advice from the many forum members here. As a woman who has always been very afraid of guns...... ive done my research..... .
Im taking a gun safety class this winter so i can be comfortable handling the thing........ and ive decided on a 357 revolver.
My husband owns shotguns...... but since i had open heart surgery not that long ago ...... I cant shoot one. Im basically going to carry it at the Cabin just in case i surprise a bear.
Good Luck.......... Please let me know what you decide.........
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smitty
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2011 15:57
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I would imagine, all your hand gun will do is tick off a bear..
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Malamute
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2011 19:21
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I disagree. There have been plenty of instances when they worked quite well. The Alaskan bear guide Phil Shoemaker carried and used a 357 with heavy solid bullet loads, and said it works just fine on large grizzlies. He went bac to a 44 because it made him "feel better", but he gave the 357 to his daughter Tia for her carry gun, she's a guide also.
With proper loads, and proper placement, handguns work just fine on bears. It also doesnt take a superpowered handgun to get the job done, contrary to internet lore.
We can get into all sort of conversations about "the average person can't shoot them well enough" etc, but that's an operator issue, not a hardware issue, and, any of us can choose not to be average. All it takes is dedication and practice.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2011 21:05
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If you are talking about a 'black' bear, where their size can go from 150 pounds to 400 pounds in my area (of hunting), a well placed shot out of a 357 with PROPER bullets should get the job done. Problem is shooting at a charging bear moving very fast, and aiming at a small target kinda gets the heart pumping. My advice is minimum a ruger sp101 with the 3 1/16" barrel, so you can get a little velocity without wanting to leave the gun elsewhere... being its a compact frame - 5 shots. Its durable as all hell, and the fixed sights will work in your regard. Pick a heavy for caliber weight, and NO HOLLOW POINTS! 158 gr soft points and up, preferably hard cast lead would be my choice. Bears have a tough hide, and tougher bone so you need to penetrate it! I'd rather see someone carrying a 357 and be able to hit something than waste their time with a bigger gun and not be proficient. Just remember, heavy and slow wins over fast and light when it comes to bears.
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mrmiji
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2011 21:33
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Few creatures view humans as prey and bears more than big cats are the most likely to find you offensive. I'm more worried about encountering trespassers but then, unlike the native creatures that have a leg up on me, I know my land better than anyone else and would notice their presence and can effectively engage them without risk to me.
Certainly carry the most powerful pistol you can. Like any shooting scenario, bullet placement is critical. For example, shooting at a bear's head is a waste of time because of the amount of bone to be penetrated. All creatures find a hole in the heart and a broken shoulder demotivating. If a bear attacks, it's because it's already ticked off. A stainless Charter arms bulldog #74420 will get the job done and require less care to maintain the finish making it more likely that you'll carry it regularly. Really, any pistol that makes sense to you is the right choice. I recently sold a Colt Mustang because my wife never really adapted to a 1911 variant.
I just bought everyone in the family a Ruger LC9 for carry and it'll be my backup gun hunting even though I possess considerably more powerful handguns to include a Ruger Super Blackhawk in 44Mag. Don't just assume you can't handle any particular gun because of your gender. My wife and daughter have shot every gun I own.
Whatever you get, carry it a lot. Wear it in your house until you don't notice it. Put it on the moment you get to your site. Get proficient with it. If you can empty it into a dinner plate sized target, you'll put a bear down or anything else that means you harm.
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Malamute
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2011 22:24 - Edited by: Malamute
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You are quite right about not assuming what you can or can't handle well because of gender. I know some women that can just flat shoot, and about anything you hand them. Many men spoil them right off by handing a woman some hand cannon the first time out, and think its funny when they don't like shooting. When well instructed, and worked up, about anyone can shoot about anything. I've found single action revolvers to be more comfortable to shoot really heavy loads in compared to a double action revolver, but in the 357 class, a double action isnt too bad in anything but the really small sized guns. Shorter abrrels also tend to be noticably louder in the muzzle blast department. 4" is a good general use/carrying size without too bad of muzzle blast. Harder to conceal, but a good all around size.
I have to disagree about head shots on bears, they simply work the vast majority of the time with a good solid bullet in a handgun, or any decent rifle round. Ralph Edwards homesteaded in BC Canada in the early 1900's. He stopped counting at 50 the grizzlies he killed with a 35 Remington cal rifle and a Winchester 30-30, (neither of which are considered "big guns") many, if not most, with head shots at close range. A heart shot is not a "stopping" shot on anything that I know of. Deer or other animals so hit often run flat out for surprising distances then collapse. I haven't heard many, if any, accounts of an instant drop to a heart shot on anything. The deer I heart shot with a 30-06 took off at a dead run for about 50-75 yards before dropping, and most other people I've heard from have had the same results.
I agree with a shoulder shot on a bear, it buys you time to get a head shot to finish it if you can break the shoulder down. A shoulder shot often results from a miss to the head when a bear is coming straight in. A side head shot at the base of the ear for a bear works, or between the eye and the ear from a front quartering angle.
Straight in the nose is the easiest way to the brain of a bear, but the bones can be penetrated. Just remember, the brain pan is between the eyes, anything outside the inside edge of the eyes isn't a brain shot on a bear when straight on. The old African hunter (Taylor?) said once that the reason he had such sucess on elephants with smaller caliber rifles was he could envision exactly where the brain was in the head from any angle.
Here's a picture of a grizzly skull that shows how narrow the brain pan is.
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naturelover66
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2011 22:50
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Well....... i plan to go to a range near my home and practice........ I need to be confident in my abilities..... or i wont even pick it up .... let alone fire it....
And yeah, up in Northern Michigan.......there are black bears......... but, im more afraid of humans to be honest. I was raised in Detroit and now live in the burbs of Detroit. Guns scare the hell out of me............ I know thats an irrational fear.. but if i learn how to use one......... the fear should be gone right?
Lisa
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Malamute
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2011 22:57 - Edited by: Malamute
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Yes Lisa. Learning about anything helps make it less mysterious, and seem less dangerous. You'll be fine.
If you start out with 38 special loads, it makes it much easier to get aquainted with your new gun. The 148 grain target wadcutter loads in particular, are about the lightest available, but they arent as common as they once were. I would also suggest getting some good quality snap caps for dry fire practice. Many gun makers say its OK to dry fire them, but it's easier on the guns to use snap caps.
If you know anyone that has a similar style in a 22 cal that will take you shooting some, it makes getting used to shooting even easier yet. I would suggest not firing any 357 loads until you have some time in shooting the 38 special loads, and get pretty familiar with it. The 357 oads are a bit louder than the 38 special shells. Be sure you wear good ear and eye protection when shooting.
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naturelover66
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2011 23:00
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Thanks Malamute for the advice......... i appreciate it !!!
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Malamute
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2011 23:06
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Yes Ma'am.
:)
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naturelover66
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2011 23:26
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SO......... i have to ask.... whats the story with the Grizzly skull??
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Malamute
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2011 23:58 - Edited by: Malamute
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Oh, it's in the museum in Cody, the Draper Museum of Natural History in the BBHC, not mine. Not that there aren't plenty of grizzlies around the neighborhood any more.
This little girl was caught by Game and Fish for being naughty and moved to someplece where she wouldnt get in trouble. She's just sleeping. Was cool to see a grizzly, even a sleepy one, that close.
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Erins#1Mom
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2011 18:02
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In NE TN, we have lots of wild boar, black bear.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2011 12:01
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I should have expressed my opinion more earlier in my post. Only a central nervous system 'hit' will end an attack promptly..there are alot of documented cases if you look that show 'vitals' hits still give the animal sufficient time to do massive if not fatal attacks. I have no doubt you can handle a 357 after some practice with it, my x when i trained her handled it better than some guys!! A full charge leaves you little to no target area for a heart shot, and would require more penetration depending on angle. Practice to aim where brain is, and just remember you may easily be in the bears grasp (arms length) when the shot goes off. They are a fast beast, and can come from a short distance away. 50 ft is not self defense in the eyes of the dec... who you will have to answer to afterwards. btw... enjoy it bc it gets addicting!
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