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smlattanzio
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2009 18:24
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Concerning off-grid living/water supply. Could you have a well drilled and use a hand pump for a water supply?
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islandguy
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2009 20:59
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Sure, but for a hand pump, the water table should be close to the surface, unless you want to spend 20 mins pumping before getting water to the surface if and when you lose the prime. many old homesteads and cabins actually mount the handpump right at the kitchen sink like a faucet. You need to know the history of water wells in the area you drill, so you have an idea of the likelihood of hitting water, and at what depth. A sandpoint may be a good option though. A sandpoint is a well you drill yourself using sections of pipe hammered into the ground. Rainwater collection systems have potential in some areas as well. good luck.
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OffthaGrid44
Member
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# Posted: 9 Jan 2009 01:07
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ok so i have been brainstorming idea for water storage and collection and this is one of my many ideas.. For the filter i plan i makeing some kind of brita type canister style filter
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Mand
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 19:00
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Does anyone know what the best roof materials are for collecting rainwater?
We are at the planning stages of building in a very dry area and need to maximise our options for off grid water.
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Camper
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2009 11:33
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Nice setup offthagrid44. I have thought about this type of system to avoid the expense of a well.
One thing I plan to add is a "roof washer." A roof washer is basically a 4" PVC pipe that runs from gutter to ground and captures the first few minutes worth of water. This is the water that has collected the majority of the dust and dirt particals that accumulate on the roof between rain falls. The pipe would have a very slow discharge so that when it was full the remaining water is diverted to the water tank. When the rain stops, the pipe slowly empties and is ready for the next rain fall. The purpose is basically to extend the life of the filtering sytem you plan to use. I would put a clean out at the bottom to keep the roof cleaner functional.
As for a filter, you can get a good filter either at an RV store that has hose type filters or at a pond/fish store that sells filtering systems for ponds.
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Vince P
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2009 15:00 - Edited by: Vince P
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Here is the system I've been using until now. a simple 50 gal barrel that collects water from the metal roof via aluminum gutters. A piece of no-seeum tent material filters out the big stuff.
The barrel sits atop the makeshift outdoor shower
This was OK for limited use and we would disinfect the water with 20 ml of bleach for no-drinking use.
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Vince P
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2009 15:14 - Edited by: Vince P
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My current system (under construction) uses the barrel shown above as a roof washer, by moving the outlet closer to the top. This outlet goes to a 400 gal cistern buried 3 feet underground. This will be the reservoir from which the water is drawn to fill the barrel in the cabin loft shown below. Because of the extreme winter temps, I am going fill the loft barrel when empty with the cistern, rather than draw directly from the cistern and risk having frozen pipes.
The loft barrel will be insulated with a water heater blanket and a solar powered heater to keep from freezing when the cabin is not in use. The pic below shows most of the plumbing in place, with a complicated valve set-up in order to use the on-demand pump to fill the barrel from the outside as well as provide water pressure to the cabin.
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CabinBuilder
Admin
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2009 18:04
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Hi Vince P,
So the pump and barrel on the picture are located in the cabin loft, and that pump is going to pump water from the underground cistern into that barrel, correct?
Shouldn't you place your pump underground, near the canister?
I.e. pumps a good at pumping water up, no 'sucking' it from below...
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Vince P
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2009 11:33 - Edited by: Vince P
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Quoting: CabinBuilder Shouldn't you place your pump underground, near the canister?
No, because the main purpose of the pump is to provide water pressure from the loft barrel to the kitchen sink (previously gravity fed from the outside barrel) and the new "indoor bathroom" I just built, which includes sink, shower and a self designed-flushing-composting-toilet.
I am only pumping the water from the cistern to the barrel when the barrel becomes empty. I've acquired a couple of submerible pumps that I may use for that purpose if the loft pump has trouble.
The only thing I have left to do on this project is the cistern. I can get the vessel itself for free, but getting it underground is the tricky part and I may need to hire a backhoe to get me that deep through the very solid ground in this area.
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lamar5292
Member
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# Posted: 26 Sep 2009 01:54 - Edited by: lamar5292
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If water table is high you can drive a water well with a sand point tip and lengths of pipe.
I used a large post pounder to drive mine 100 feet and hit an artesian vein for free flowing water.
They make solar water pumps and the old primer pumps are still available on ebay and Lehmans.
I have a 25 gallon water storage tank under my sink and a 12 volt sure flow pump for showers and washing.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2009 20:36
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Being a water treatment operator by trade, I suggest using a house filter/ carbon/particulate filter like the ones in home depot or walmart. They are reasonable and won't plug up quickly like the brita or other faucet style. They are only designed to remove taste/odor problems after water source has been treated for organisms. I do not suggest or recommend drinking 'rainwater' or other untreated water w/o further steps as to chlorination , iodide or UV light. By nature, the best system to use is UV light pens to inactivate organisms, and works optimally w/ filtered water. Running water through a filter does NOT mean you have removed any viruses or bacteria, as most people seem to believe. You cannot see the bacterium and most get sick from optically clear water that carries these germs. Please be safe and research the best treatment to insure your health.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 18 Oct 2009 08:52
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oh yeah, btw, you shouldn't even comprehend using asphalt shingles and consider trying to drink the runoff at some point. I know it sounds stupid, but some people i know tried this w/o high end filter. The oils/residue biult into the shingle makes this prohibitive. It only takes one drop of oil to contaminate 1000 gals of water. Use steel roofing as a starting point if you intend to capture rainwater. Just remember you can't control bird/animal feces that land on your roof. That's the origin of E.coli - animmal fecal matter.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2009 18:33
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Lamar5292, you mention sure flow 12V water pump. Do they make 110V AC pumps? If not, do they supply converter to go 110AC to 12V DC? I would like to setup a 10 to 15 G tanks below the sink and pump the water to sink.
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RickandRandy
Member
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2010 16:15
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Hi,
We have a stream on our property and I was looking for non-electric, simple filtration options, and did a lot of research.
So I wound up ordering a water purifier called the Katadyn drip filter. It uses high-tech ceramic filters with carbon and silver that can be cleaned up to 100 times, and should be good for about 147 000 litres! so if we used ten litres per day, it would last 41 years according to my calculations. It filters everything up to .2 microns, and claims to remove all bacteria and water-born parasites and viruses, althoug viruses are far less of an issue in north america. It is basically a tabletop version of a portable camping water purifier with a double reservoir. It claims to produce 4 litres of clean water per hour. I ordered it though Mountain Equipment Coop.
My plan is to purify stream water, which already looks spretty good to me, into safe drinking water so that we don't have to bring so much water if we are staying for more than a weekend or have lots of people over. So if all goes well, we'll have limitless drinking water. It claims that it will purify any water, but the more cloudy or turbid it is, the more frequently you have to clean the filters with a brush that is provided. They say you just have to clean when you observe that the water is taking longer to drip through the filters. So I think that this is suite to anyone who has a natural water source, but I am sure that this would also work with rainbarrel water, I would just be mindful about the plastics in the collection system.
Also of interest are the sawyer point one filters, and the Berkey filters. All these can be googled. Sawyer filters promise ONE MILLION gallons of filtered water! I emailed them and they also ship to Canada.
I went for the Katadyn one because it was easy to order, comes with a 2 year warranty, I liked the double reservoire design, and it would not be an eyesore in the kitchen. It's made in Switzerland. the Sawyer one is made to attach to a bucket or any other rigid plastic container and is less expensive but less attactive also, but seems more effective and long-lasting. I might order one of these as a backup or spare or something because it does intrigue me. The Katadyn was $255, the Sawyer is $150. The Berkey is all stainless steel, but was the most expensive and they did not get back to me about shipping in Canada.
Hope this is helps someone out there! I'll update when I actually start using it.
Rick
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MikeOnBike
Member
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2010 16:24
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R&R
If your creek water is clean enough to shower and do dishes with and the Katadyn provides the drinking water you should be pretty well set.
Thanks for the info. We have a spring on the property and have been drinking from it but if we are going to pump from it we will have to put in a spring box. If it doesn't stay pure after that we will have to filter for drinking.
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RickandRandy
Member
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2010 16:44
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Thanks MikeonBike,
ya, I don't want to be a nervous nelly or paranoid about the water, but I do want to take some reasonable precautions if I can.
Awesome looking spring by the way!
Rick
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MikeOnBike
Member
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2010 17:21
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This is the flow in mid May. It really diminishes by late Sept, hence the need for the spring box.
I have to pump water 150ft. up to my cabin so I'll be looking at something like VinceP has for non-drinking water use.
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DLMcBeath
Member
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# Posted: 14 Mar 2010 11:18
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My question is what do you due to prevent freezing? I have a 200 gal tank I don't want to bury. My plan is to insulate it and put it under my cabin. I will only need water in it through November. Once hunting season is over I'll drain it. Is there anything else I can do to keep it from freezing?
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MikeOnBike
Member
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# Posted: 14 Mar 2010 17:52
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I'm going to put 4 30gal. plastic drums under the kitchen counter but at some point in an insulated but unheated cabin it will freeze and we will have to drain and refill for each visit in the early spring and late fall.
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Rob_O
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# Posted: 15 Mar 2010 09:07
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You can buy the Berkey and Sterasyl filters on eBay and build something like this
Full index of articles here
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envir0
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# Posted: 28 Apr 2010 15:12
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how about a bubbler system to keep the water from freezing
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bugs
Member
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2010 08:45
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I came across this ad from the entomological supply company I buy my "bug" supplies from for the SteriPen:
http://www.bioquip.com/search/DispProduct.asp?pid=4287
Wonder if it works as well as it claims. Would be nice if it did.
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RickandRandy
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jul 2010 11:58
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Our Katadyn ceram drip filter has been a real life saver. I fetch a pail of water at the stream to fill it up in the evening and by morning you have a new reservoir full of water.
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Scott_T
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# Posted: 21 Jul 2010 11:57
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Katadyn filters are superb. I have had one for 17 years that gets used sporadically for hiking/camping trips. Expensive but worth every penny to stay healthy...
I am in the process of buying a property right now to build my own cabin. The property had a drinking water well drilled 5 years ago. The components of the well appear to be all there but no power exists yet to drive the pump. Does anyone have ideas as to how I could withdraw a water sample for testing? I think the well depth may be as much as 300'. Could I connect a portable generator to the well pump?
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cman47c
Member
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# Posted: 22 Jul 2010 07:59
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Sure thing. If the pump is in and wires are brought out, you must find out the pump voltage and then make an appropriate cord that will fit your generator. We run our well pump from our generator at our cabin. Our pump is 220VAC so the generator must be able to produce that voltage. Generally, you would need at least a 3000 watt generator to run most pumps, 1/2 HP or less.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 8 Aug 2010 08:39
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As far as withdrawing a water sample right away, it won't be a representative sample of what you would normally see. Most pump their wells for considerable time, and even chlorinate the lines/pump if it has been sitting for 5 years especially. Have the bacteriology lab your conducting test with advise you on sampling, because however you do this, it has to be in a sterile environment or your results will be skewed. For the costs of having this test performed, install a particulate filter and uv. then you will be protected 24/7..../not just the day of the test. Depending on the weel type, water quality can change overnight. just my opinion
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Gary O
Member
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# Posted: 19 Aug 2010 20:47
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Quoting: lamar5292 I used a large post pounder to drive mine 100 feet and hit an artesian vein for free flowing water.
Lamar5292!
Need more info, please.
Our place sits atop an underground lake, and everyone's wells around there run less than 50', reaching water at 20 something.
The wife (cabingal) and I slept one night in the meadow in a spot with greener vegetation. I awoke around midnight, hearing rushing water (not all the time though). The wife related she heard the same (so not just the normal weird dream I am known to have). So, been talkin' it around, but just now saw your posting back in 9/09. Hope you can respond someday to tell more. I'd hate to drive a hole and turn my little paradise into a pond..........
BTW, 'cabingal' is for cabin gal not cabing al...I just found that out....
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 23 Aug 2010 21:25
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New question: I've a retreat cabin, on a hill. Forget the wells because it's just not going to happen. I'm thinking a gravity fed system -- large, hard plastic 50 gal container (a plastic without all the warnings you shouldn't store water in it) into which I'm pouring the water. Yes, I'm hauling potable water from another source! I need to be able to pour 5 to 6 gallon containers of water into the main 50 gallon tank. I'm thinking a pulley system, a nice, silent one. External or interal? Let's see what I find! Anyone out there have any suggestions or plans, references, links, websites, companies, etc that can help out with this plan? It's really the only option at this cabin. Thanks all! Cy
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Dug
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# Posted: 24 Aug 2010 17:37
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Vince P
Vince, Just what I want to with my cabin. I had envisioned the same sink, toilet (1 pint per flush) and shower in my new cabin powered by a small auto pump that turns on by demand. I will need a pressure tank or bulb to regulate the pressure and stop constant on and off's for the pump. For the shower, I plan to use a Bosch on-demand propane water heater that uses a small turbine to ignite the flame on demand. I think a 50 gal tank should do me fine but will need to fill it from my existing well with maby a gas pump - or a good hand pump to get to the tank inside above the bathroom.
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Kithera
Member
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# Posted: 1 Sep 2010 17:09
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As long as you use either an outhouse or a composing toilet ( no water ) and are very careful with water used for washing, then rain catchment should be a great option for just out anyone. 1" on 1000 sq ft = 600 gallons. 2 gallons to drink and two to wash with per day comes up to about 700 gallons per year. I don't know about you, but even in the desert an inch of rain a year isn't unreasonable.
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