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antler
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2012 19:52
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I searched for the solutions for water sources here found nothing for freezing temps. Ok so I'll be building my cabin on a big pond. 3-400ft behind the cabin is another pond, higher in elevation. I'm wondering about water source for when it's below freezing outside. The cabin will be mostly a weekend only retreat, with no heat during the week. I'll be having a water heater for shower/washing use, probably end up bringing 2-3 5 gallon jugs of spring water each trip for cooking/drinking.
I contemplated digging a ditch and running a water line from the pond behind the cabin. Would give me decent pressure, constant flow, but would still freeze inside/where it enters the cabin.
Another option I've considered is keeping a 15 gallon tank in the loft of the cabin. I'd keep a hose inside so within a few hours of arriving everything would be thawed, id run the hose to the pond and pump enough to fill the tank, drain before leaving the cabin for the week.
Anyone else run into and overcome these problems in your small cabins?
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GomerPile
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2012 21:24
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Install a weep hole below the frost line. Basically a 1/16 hole drilled in the water line. After your tank is filled the water line empties up to the weep hole.
Typically this is done in a well casing so the water has a place to go. Since you don't have a well you will need to put in a drain or pocket of gravel around the weep hole.
I would also install a bunch of rigid foam insulation around the lines as the exit the ground.
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antler
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2012 23:56
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I think I'm leaning towards the second option. Plumb everything with a low point at each tap with a valve, that all run into the grey water drain. that way when before I leave after each visit I'll drain the tank, open all the valves so my plumbing will drain. When I get back to the cabin close all the valves and refill the tank. Sounds like a good idea to me, any comments criticism with this idea?
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Montanan
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# Posted: 1 Oct 2012 00:03
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Our system is a little different but there are some similarities. We get our water from a spring-fed stream but it is below the cabin site so we have a pump. We have a PVC pipe with holes that siphons water out of the stream and into our collection "barrel." The barrel is really just a big corrugated pipe like you use for a culvert and it's turned on its end and buried. That way, it's below the frost line and there is also always water moving through (i.e. no freezing.) The pipes are buried >6' from the pump up to the cabin, so that's not a problem. (We have a problem with the intake pipe freezing at the pump, but I digress.)
We insulated around the pipe where it emerges from the ground and runs into the cabin and that seems to *normally* keep it warm enough that pipes don't freeze while we're there with water in the system (except once, when we had a CRAZY cold snap and it froze overnight despite having the cabin at a comfortable 65 degrees. Lesson learned for us was to always let a faucet drip while we sleep if it's that cold while we're there.)
But yes, your second option sounds workable. That is what we do when we leave the cabin. We drain our hot water heater and all the plumbing in the cabin before we leave each visit. Just make sure you don't have any "flat spots" in the plumbing. It turns out that we have one, despite following plumbing guidelines for grade. We had to buy a small pancake compressor and now we can actively blow out any remaining water in the lines before we leave.
Hope that helps.
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antler
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# Posted: 1 Oct 2012 08:51
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Thanks that sounds like a good setup!
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rayyy
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# Posted: 1 Oct 2012 16:31
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I'm hopeing my idea works.I've insullated all around the 250 gallon water tank,leaving an open vent into the cabin which will be heated all the time.I'm betting enough heat will bleed out and around the tank to keep it above freezing.If it fails,Ill just have to do what I did last winter and bring home 5 gallon jugs of water.
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antler
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# Posted: 1 Oct 2012 18:19
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Yes rayyy that might work. I don't mind hauling in a couple 5 gallon jugs for drinking water, but if I had to haul enough water for the women to shower it could get to be a lot of trouble.
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Sustainusfarm
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# Posted: 1 Oct 2012 19:39
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Quoting: antler # Posted: 29 Sep 2012 23:56 Reply Quote I think I'm leaning towards the second option. Plumb everything with a low point at each tap with a valve, that all run into the grey water drain. that way when before I leave after each visit I'll drain the tank, open all the valves so my plumbing will drain. When I get back to the cabin close all the valves and refill the tank. Sounds like a good idea to me, any comments criticism with this idea?
Antler, Can you draw a diagram of that...im not quite following the setup....?? Please!! I am in this stage of driving a well and wanting to pipe it to the cabin to be able to use in winter as well....
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 1 Oct 2012 21:31
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maybe something like this
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Sustainusfarm
Member
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# Posted: 2 Oct 2012 13:17
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Just...great pic on the fly! LOL I guess I was looking to see how the valves are set up to drain into the waste lines under the sink or other areas....
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rayyy
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# Posted: 4 Oct 2012 19:40
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My biggest dilema is leaving 200 foot of garden hose on the ground running down to the creek.If a pocket of water freezes up,I'm screwed!I would hate pulling up all that garden hose and bringing it all inside the cabin to thaw out.I'm betting on it all being down grade so it drains out 100%.My creek is alway's flowing so I'll have unfrozen water to pump to my water tank.Wish me luck.
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TomChum
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# Posted: 6 Feb 2013 00:19 - Edited by: TomChum
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Antler can't you just leave the water running constantly from the upper pond? As long as it has a place to go that (wet ground) doesn't bother you. It takes a lot of cold to freeze moving water, but of course it could happen.
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jaransont3
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# Posted: 6 Feb 2013 12:08
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We have the same dilema at our cabin in Northern MN. This is what we plan to do...
I am thinking that I will have a float switch in the holding tank that will activate the lift pump in the cistern when needed. The cistern will have a low level switch that shuts it off so the pump doesn't run dry and also trips an indicator light in the cabin. The filling of the cistern will be manually controlled using the shallow well pump. This way I can be sure that the generator is running for the shallow well pump.
The cistern will only need to be filled once per visit. The holding tank one to two times each day depending on usage and what size I end up with.
The on-demand pressure pump will be 12V and tied directly to the battery bank. It can then run anytime, independent of the generator. Will just be sure to fill it before we shut the generator off at night.
I also added the bulkhead doors for access to the cistern if needed. Maybe fill the space above the cistern and under the foam cover with foam or fiberglass batts (something easy to remove) to make sure it doesn't freeze. Sure a bunch easier to access then digging dirt to access the top of the cistern.
We have built this yet, but likely will over the summer.
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Rickson2
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2016 07:30
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jaransont3:
If you think the pond is a spring fed one and therefore gives unlimited supply, you could just leave a bypass line running all winter and drain the line into the house in the fall or whenever you use it in below freezing temps.
We did that for 40 years with a pond about 100ft elevation up from our cabin on another lake. Plus that way you just turn on the taps in the cabin and within a minute you have fresh pond water. Be sure to wire the hose up high on a tree so it doesn't freeze in winter. You will have a giant ice cone if it gets really cold. Flowing water in a pipe doesn't freeze. We used this method in -40 C weather and it never froze. 1" line
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2016 08:41
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Pretty old thread, but good ideas all around. One thing though-
Quoting: antler Plumb everything with a low point at each tap with a valve, that all run into the grey water drain.
It's a bad idea to drain a fresh water line directly into any waste water line. Bacteria can get into the fresh from the grey water drain if any sort of backwash condition occurs. Let the fresh water drains go to daylight away from your waste lines.
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