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cabinbiscuit
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# Posted: 14 Mar 2013 16:20
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Well I ordered an Eccotemp L-10 today as it seemed to fit my particular needs the best. I also ordered a 12 volt water pump to pull water from my yet to be constructed cistern system. I ended up going with a Jabsco 4 gpm 60psi raw water wash down pump that you would normally use for a boat application instead of the normal RV pumps that are made by Shurflo and Flojet due to the higher gpm, psi, and its' ability to self prime up to 10'. Also got a great price on it as kit that included an intake strainer and shipping for $109.99 total.
I'll keep you posted on how things progress.
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cabin_pal
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2013 04:38
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Quoting: cabinbiscuit I ended up going with a Jabsco 4 gpm 60psi raw water wash down pump that you would normally use for a boat application instead of the normal RV pumps that are made by Shurflo and Flojet due to the higher gpm, psi, and its' ability to self prime up to 10'. Also got a great price on it as kit that included an intake strainer and shipping for $109.99 total.
May I ask where you got such a great deal? Can you provide a website link to connect other cabin folk to this same supplier? Thanks for your help!
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Alaskaman
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# Posted: 4 Apr 2013 18:37
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I use a 12 volt on demand propane water heater. It's inside my cabin and is not vented. the code officials may not like it, but at -40° the less vents in my place the better. Besides there are no code officials around these parts.
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cabin_pal
Member
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# Posted: 5 Apr 2013 03:43
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Quoting: Alaskaman I use a 12 volt on demand propane water heater.
By 12-volt, do you mean a 12-v. water pump? What brand is your heater, and are you satisfied with its performance?
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241comp
Member
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# Posted: 5 Apr 2013 10:19
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How is the Eccotemp L-10 working out? I have a L-5 and it seems to work well on low-flow applications (<1gpm) with any temperature water.
My opinion on the CO debate is that if a Kero/NG/LP appliance is rated for indoor use, you should feel comfortable using it indoors. If an appliance is rated for outdoor use only, you'd be crazy to use it indoors unless fully alert/awake (even then, I advise against it). I use a coleman propane camp stove inside, which is clearly marked for outdoor use. But I don't take a nap with it running.
All of that said, whether you are using vented or non-vented appliances (I personally own both), you will want both a high quality smoke & CO detector. Both vented and non-vented appliances can fail in such a way as to fill your living space with CO or catch a wall on fire. I am a firm believer in avoiding single points of failure where possible, so I use two detectors.
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Alaskaman
Member
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# Posted: 5 Apr 2013 15:04
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Quoting: cabin_pal By 12-volt, do you mean a 12-v. water pump? What brand is your heater, and are you satisfied with its performance?
It's actually an R.V. water heater. Runs off my battery bank and a propane line. Just Google "On demand 12v water heater". Mine is a Gerard.
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Alaskaman
Member
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# Posted: 5 Apr 2013 15:07
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I also have both Smoke and CO detectors. actually a couple of each. You are gonna feel pretty stupid if you wake up dead, but the purchase of a $25 detector.
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cabin_pal
Member
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# Posted: 6 Apr 2013 04:52 - Edited by: cabin_pal
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Quoting: Alaskaman It's actually an R.V. water heater. Runs off my battery bank and a propane line. Just Google "On demand 12v water heater". Mine is a Gerard.
Thanks for the additional info. This is a neat demand water heater I hadn't heard of before. The 12-volts apparently run a combustion fan, which increases overall efficiency. Looks like a great system for off-grid installations.
Here are a couple links for anyone wanting additional information on the Girard Tankless RV Water Heater:
http://greenrvproducts.com/girard-tankless-rv-water-heater/
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-water-heaters/girard-ondemand-water-heater.htm
More spendy than some demand heaters, this one clearly is vented to the outside and should prove safe and quite reliable -- within small dimensions, too.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2015 00:23
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BUMP. Video of an L5 mounted indoors with outside venting (not me). Does this look safe?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpWdwMTlCNI
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rugercpl
Member
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2015 01:15
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I'm using mine indoors. It's the small model eccotemp mounted probably too close to the ceiling and against a pine wall (I shimmed it about an inch off the wall, but with more pine lol). I've ran the thing for 2 years with no issues. The ceiling or the wall doesn't get hot. These don't throw off anymore carbon monoxide than your average home cooked meal on the stove. If it did my CO2 Detector would probably say otherwise. The only thing it does throw off is a little more humidity...big deal. I run a ventless propane heater while waiting for the wood stove to heat up too. In a 700sq ft cabin with 10' ceilings with an open floor plan there is no issues whatsoever.
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cabin_pal
Member
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2015 07:12 - Edited by: cabin_pal
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This looks relatively safe, to me; that is, the indoor arrangement, using the metal heating duct/register boot, looks pretty safe. Outside, the vent grill used appears to be plastic, which would NOT be safe, coming in contact with the hot flue gases. I'd vent further beyond the structure's exterior cladding, and use metal components only. But the use of the heating register boot indoors is really quite clever.
When my home's regular gas water heater (tank type) went out 2 years ago, the Eccotemp L5 tankless heater I'd originally purchased for use in a cabin, was still in its shipping box. I pulled it out, revamped some of my plumbing, and made it take the place of the expired tank heater. While a bit under-powered for a 2 bdrm home, the L5 has met all my basic hot water needs, since installation. It is mounted indoors in the utility room, and though the exhaust smells a bit rich, I and my two dogs have never suffered any ill-effects from its periodic use (of no more than 20 minutes at a time).
It would be better to vent such an appliance to the outdoors, but as experience has proven for me, this is not absolutely necessary. There is an inherent danger of carbon-monoxide poisoning with any unvented, gas-burning appliance. But so far -- knock on wood -- the L5 unvented demand water heater has not produced appreciable amounts of the deadly gas. To be safe, however, if you're going to use such a heater indoors, you should also have a functioning CO detector installed nearby, to sound a warning if carbon-monoxide concentrations rise to a dangerous level.
Though small, these compact, tankless water heaters are not toys. They genuinely produce a reliable and continuous supply of domestic hot water. You just have to use a little smarts in sizing a unit to your particular needs.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2015 08:55 - Edited by: paulz
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Thanks for the replies. I've added a 6x8 bathroom to the back of my cabin, very small for non-venting however it does have two windows and the door into the cabin could be left open when showering.
The heating register boot looks viable to me, easy to fab and yes, run past the outside wall with metal grill. Another option might be double wall (type B) vent pipe through the roof. One thing I've noticed though, some (all?) home heating systems have a dingus called a diverter that lets air into the vent above the appliance to help with draft. Might be better to leave an air gap at the boot.
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bldginsp
Member
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2015 15:36
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Eccotemp makes several units that are made for indoor installation. It would be no harder to install one of those with a flu. Probably cost a bit more, but you are not guessing on the engineering of the flu.
Aluminum tape is not made to take heat, the adhesive will cook and go away, then it stops sealing. Seen this many times.
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cabin_pal
Member
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2015 16:44 - Edited by: cabin_pal
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Quoting: bldginsp Eccotemp makes several units that are made for indoor installation. It would be no harder to install one of those with a flu. Probably cost a bit more, but you are not guessing on the engineering of the flu.
I agree. There's an Eccotemp vented model that's around $220 which comes with all the vent parts and would be well worth the money, considering the unit's simplicity of installation and inherent safety. The only potential problem is that these require house current to operate the venting blower. Those off-grid would need to have an inverter to provide the required 110-120 volts AC current.
A word of warning: Don't attempt to purchase your Eccotemp products from MyRubberneck.com. This company drew $119 from my debit card a year ago and never shipped the L5 heater I'd purchased. All my calls and emails to the company have gone unanswered. MyRubberneck has several dozen serious complaints against it with the Better Business Bureau. You can check the BBB's report on this company on-line.
Be safe! Order your Eccotemp products direct from Eccotemp, Amazon, or other distributors with clean BBB records. MyRubberneck.com's owner owes me real money and, in my opinion, belongs in prison for interstate theft and fraud.
As the old saying goes: "BUYER BEWARE."
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2015 18:01
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Sorry to hear about that. But if you use a credit card for online purchases you can always go to the CC company and file a dispute. I have seldom ever had to dispute a charge but it worked very smoothly for me the two times I can recall. Gotta follow their time lint rules, et al of course.
And for those who don't like giving out CC #'s online there are some cards that use special features or tricks that make online about as safe as you can get. I use Citibank Virtual Account Number and Bank of America ShopSafe; different approaches to the same issue. I prefer Citi VAN.
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rayyy
Member
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# Posted: 5 Dec 2015 08:47
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEWSf1BRqeA this is how I feel about my ecotemp.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2015 13:27
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I'll take that as a thumbs up 
Well now that I've watched that video I'm thinking why not mount it outside and run plumbing and valves, along with a cold water line, into the shower and just leave it on max temp as shown. I want to use a sink so would have to do some plumbing anyway.
Thanks for that.
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cabin_pal
Member
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2015 17:11
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Quoting: MtnDon And for those who don't like giving out CC #'s online there are some cards that use special features or tricks that make online about as safe as you can get. I use Citibank Virtual Account Number and Bank of America ShopSafe; different approaches to the same issue. I prefer Citi VAN.
Thanks, MtnDon, for this tip. I'll never use a debit card for an online purchase again; and though I haven't had problems, yet, using regular credit cards, I'll look into the extra degree of safety you've mentioned here. I didn't know this type of fraud protection existed.
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cabin_pal
Member
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2015 17:53
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Quoting: paulz Well now that I've watched that video I'm thinking why not mount it outside and run plumbing and valves, along with a cold water line, into the shower and just leave it on max temp as shown. I want to use a sink so would have to do some plumbing anyway.
Paulz, if you live in an area that gets freezing temperatures, even rarely, I wouldn't install a demand water heater outside. One freeze and it'll be ruined, or at least require a daunting leak-repair job. Not worth the risk, in my opinion. If venting of exhaust gases is a concern, as it has become for me, you're much better-off installing a demand heater designed for indoor installation.
Here's a link to the one I mentioned in an earlier post:
http://www.amazon.com/Eccotemp-FVI-12-LP-Capacity-Propane-Tankless/dp/B002Y0K6AI/ref= sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1449440364&sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=eccotemp+vented
It's an Eccotemp power-vented model, and I believe it's the least expensive available on the market for exterior venting. Here's one informative customer review from that Amazon.com listing:
GO TANKLESS FOR LESS!
By Bob in Deming NM on May 8, 2011
Verified Purchase
"This is a great product for the money and hundreds less than most other tankless water heaters! I got it in two days and installed it on the weekend. This thing kicks serious butt! The unit comes on and seconds later you have hot water at the tap/shower! For once I can take a shower for as long as I want and never run out of hot water!
Installation Notes:
All parts needed for install came to about $50 USD, Gas shutoff valve, tee's for water supply tie in etc...
It can be mounted to a wall with the exterior wall either behind the unit or at a right angle...
Important note:
THIS UNIT WILL NOT RUN ON VERY LOW WATER PRESSURE! MAKE SURE YOU HAVE BETWEEN 35-50 PSI WATER PRESSURE BEFORE ORDERING THE UNIT OR YOU WILL BE WASTING YOUR MONEY!!!"
Note that last caution about the required water pressure. If you don't have that type of pressure available, a Jabsco 4.0 gpm 12-volt wash-down pump (or equivalent) can be inserted into your line to deliver the higher pressure. Also, if you're off-grid, a small power inverter can be used to generate enough house current to run the heater's blower and ignition system.
By doing some Internet searching, I suspect you'll also be able to find vented demand water heaters for indoor use which don't require house current for operation.
Even if you install an indoor-rated demand water heater, you'll have to devise a plumbing system for draining the unit's heat exchanger, if you ever have to the leave the cabin unheated in freezing weather. But indoor installation, overall, gives you a leg-up on freeze protection.
I'm no expert on all this, but I'm glad I opted to install my Eccotemp water heater indoors. Here, in eastern WA state, I would have lost it long ago in the first winter it was installed.
Hope my comments encourage, rather than dissuade, you to proceed with your own demand water heater installation. Take your time to do it right, and have fun!
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2015 20:21
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Thanks Cabin Pal,
We get a few freezes a year (NorCal) but I'm nowhere near the cabin then, it may be as cold inside as outside! Perhaps draining it would work.
I already bought a slightly used L5 and Flojet for $50, like to use them.
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cabin_pal
Member
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2015 23:43 - Edited by: cabin_pal
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Quoting: paulz We get a few freezes a year (NorCal) but I'm nowhere near the cabin then, it may be as cold inside as outside! Perhaps draining it would work. I already bought a slightly used L5 and Flojet for $50, like to use them.
If you take reasonable freeze precautions, the L5 should serve you well. I think you'll be pleased with its performance. Good luck!
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Bluesmtb
Member
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2016 22:18
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So, is there anyone who has mounted an Ecotemp L10 indoors, and vented it?
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FishHog
Member
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2016 17:59
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Quoting: Bluesmtb So, is there anyone who has mounted an Ecotemp L10 indoors, and vented it?
Yes, set mine up and ran it for 10 days of deer season. 4 guys showering back to back and I didn't have any issues. I keep a window open, but even with my work gas tester, CO levels never showed.
Obviously you have to be safe. But its not like your sleeping in the shower. The amount of time the burner runs is very minimal. I had every intention of adding a vent pipe, but just finished my install, and wanted to test. Now I have no intention to do so.
(insert token do so at your own risk warning)
FishHog
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sparky30_06
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2016 06:55
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my question is, if you use an outdoor unit but pipe the vent outside are you ok?? Then again I was looking at the prices and the indoor units are cheaper, if price is your driving factor
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FishHog
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2016 09:27
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Quoting: sparky30_06 my question is, if you use an outdoor unit but pipe the vent outside are you ok?
depends on what perspective your asking if your OK.
OK as in your not going to die from CO, yup, if you vent it all to the exterior how could it be an issue.
OK to codes.........probably not.
Its totally an individual decision to use an item differently than the manufacture recommends. If you understand what your dealing with and the potential consequences, lots of things can be used very safely in a different manner.
If you don't, or aren't comfortable, then follow to a "T", the instructions and warning labels.
I for one, tear the labels off my mattresses. But you might not want to live that dangerously.
In this day and age, people won't tell you to take short cuts. I wouldn't recommend them either. But I can and will tell you what I do, to help you make your own informed decision. There are hazards involved. If you control them, then you should be fine. If you don't control them and hope for the best, you might not be.
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Bluesmtb
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2016 10:43
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Thanks, like others who have posted I would like to mount the L10 inside my cottage, and vent it out using the ecotenp horizontal vent. We do not have electricity at the cottage so that is why we are going with the L10. I'd also like to mount it indoors to protect it from the elements, and have it close so we can adjust knobs as required, and to be honest it's a better space to mount it.
I saw on the ecotenp help desk Web page that it's impossible to mount their Outdoor heaters indoors because of the exhaust gasses and they can't be vented outside because the vent will smother the flame.
So, I'm just looking for a clear answer.
I get the warranty will be void, however, I just want to know if I put the ecotemp horizontal vent on an L10 that has been mounted inside, will the unit work?
Has anyone out there mounted an L10 inside and vented it outside? I can't find a photo online of this type of setup, so perhaps it's not possible.
If it simply will not work with a vent, I'll come up with a plan B.
Thanks!
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silverwaterlady
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2016 11:18
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I know how it's built and how it burns when lit up. I would never use it inside.
Another thing to consider is the fact that if you have insurance on your cabin using this outdoor appliance indoors will invalidate your policy.
That being said why not spend the few extra hundred dollars and get one that is built for indoor use and can be properly vented. Save the outdoor tank for use as a backup outdoors in the warmer months.
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Bluesmtb
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2016 15:19 - Edited by: Bluesmtb
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Thank you, that is a good point. Its a small remote cottage on an island in Canada's sub Arctic. No insurance on it.
Not so much a question of cost as I liked the L10 because its gravity fed and no need for constant power to run a fan (no electricity on the island).
As I haven't heard or seen any photos of the L10 being used indoors (or heard from people who have) I am leaning towards just mounting the L10 outdoors as directed.
I was hoping I could just mount it indoors on a Durabond cement board and vent it outside. Would make my life easier...unless it would kill me...which would not be ideal.
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FishHog
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2016 16:21
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Before I permanently mounted mine I tested it to see if it did what I wanted. If your buying it anyway, why not test it in a temporary installation and see. I guess its possible that a horizontal vent could be an back pressure issue. I was going to go vertical. But within reason, I bet it will work fine.
Not sure what concerns silverwater lady has with the construction and the way they burn, but again to each their own and only do what your comfortable with. But there are lots of on demand heaters mounted inside buildings. Its typically the ventilation that is a concern.
Mine is mounted on corrugated steel, so no fire hazard from that perspective. Ventilation was my concern, but a few quick tests put those concerns at ease (for me) pretty quickly.
again, not suggesting you do something your not comfortable with. I'm just telling you what I did, and I think works great.
Obviously as you said "unless it would kill me....which would not be ideal". I have a hard time picturing a worst case scenario that could lead to that. Which is why I'm comfortable with doing what I'm doing.
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silverwaterlady
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2016 20:06
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The concern I had with the outdoor unit is how hot the cabinet becomes when fired up. It's not built with the same quality as the indoor units.
The Marey 10L 3.1 GPM. Is a indoor on demand tank that uses two D size batteries for ignition of the pilot light. It does not come with the venting or shower hose and head.
That's ok with me because I wanted a better quality shower head and a longer hose. I don't need the venting because I am using the shower in a open air outdoor shower,the tank is underneath a sun canopy so this keeps the weather off the unit.
Right away I noticed a big difference in the quality of this indoor unit in weight,construction (the cabinet does not get as hot)and water flow. The only bad thing about it is if the water pressure fluctuates the pilot light will go out. Turning the cold water supply off than on will relight the pilot.
Another member mentioned the Marley this Spring and got me inspired to do a upgrade. Can't remember the members name maybe we can get another review on the pros and cons of this unit.
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