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Gregjman
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# Posted: 2 May 2013 13:18
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Hi,
Just getting started at our chunk of land and we are going to attempt to drive a well this weekend. I searched for the answer and was unable to find it so sorry if this is redundant.
I'm wondering if I'm driving a shallow well and using a hand pump if a check valve is necessary and if so, where in the column should it be installed.
FYI, I'm using 1 1/4" pipe.
Thanks,
Greg
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 2 May 2013 16:23
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if you are buying a new pump it should have one in it . that's all you should need,' use a post pounder to drive it in not a hammer or a axe. add a sacrafichal pipe to the end so you won't mess up the threads..
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optimistic
Member
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# Posted: 2 May 2013 16:55
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How do you know how deep to drive this?
If you check and find water then how do you know you are not right on the upper tip of the well?
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Gregjman
Member
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# Posted: 2 May 2013 17:14
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I wasn't aware there was a valve in the pump. Thanks. The rest I think I have down....
The pamphlet I read where I bought my point and pipe had a graphic and just above the drive point there was a check valve, the rest of the pipe was coupled to this. It didn't make much sense to use a brass check valve as a drive coupler...
Water table should be around 14' from what I've been told. I'll cross my fingers...
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littlesalmon4
Member
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# Posted: 2 May 2013 18:45
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let us know how it works out.
Thinking of trying to drive one myself
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skootamattaschmidty
Member
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# Posted: 2 May 2013 19:44
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I have a standpoint at home that I use for watering the grass in the summer. I have installed many for my neighbours. I am not sure what climate you are in but if freezing is a problem I don't like the idea of a check valve at the top of the point. I have always had my check valve on the top of the pipe above the ground. That way in the fall I can loosen it off so the water can drain and I don't worry about freeze up. Also like you said a brass fitting at the point you are driving does not make sense. I have had friends who have been pounding a point and it has snapped off well below ground and they had to buy another point. Unless of course the check valve is built into the point.
I have found success with a 3" hand auger that I turn down into the ground and can add 4' length of 3/4" pipe as I get deeper. Much easier then driving it all the way down. Good luck and let us know how you make out.
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Gregjman
Member
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# Posted: 2 May 2013 19:59
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Central Wisconsin. I think I will just see if/how deep I hit water and go from there. Just bought a new pump and there seems to be a valve in the bottom.
If the weather holds out this weekend we will see how it goes and I will follow up.
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Gregjman
Member
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# Posted: 5 May 2013 09:04
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Well I made it about 12' before I had to stop. The coupler between my sacrificial pipe and a 5' section must have turned loose or something. The threads actually split on the pipe.
Now I have 12' in the ground with about 6" exposed and I need to cut new threads or start over. I prefer option one.
Any suggestions for thread cutting?
I can say that if you dig a hole as deep as you can first it isn't terribly difficult to drive the pipe ( in my soil anyway...)
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 5 May 2013 09:13
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take it to town . any water yet
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Gregjman
Member
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# Posted: 5 May 2013 12:25
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No water yet. The portion of pipe that needs to be rethreaded is in the ground only about 6 inches are exposed above grade. I need to get a pipe die to do it on site. I am hoping that another 5 foot section of pipe yields water.
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Gregjman
Member
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# Posted: 10 May 2013 17:29
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Took a trip up last Wednesday night hoping to jack the 5' section w bad threads out of the ground so I could replace that piece of pipe. I got it to move about half a foot and that was it.
So now I have about $100 buried in the ground. I bought a new point, pipe and couplers for this weekend and feel like I have learned a lot about driving this pipe effectively.
I'm going to construct a pulley system directly above the pipe to lift my post driver (with additional weights added) and drop it square on the pipe. I also am switching to a longer sacrificial pipe so the driver doesn't hit the coupler and not strike square.
Any luck with any homemade driving rigs as I am describing? Either way ill follow up with how it goes.. Maybe get some photos
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 10 May 2013 19:12 - Edited by: Just
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try keeping water in the pipe as you drive it, or if you have a source or surface water you could jet it in with a water pump. I have never driven one in that deep my deepest one is 10 ft..
to pull a well I use a jack all farm jack . Put all the upwards force you can on the jack then hit the side of the pipe with a sledge . I also use a front end loader on the tractor then the sledge hammer . good luck.
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 10 May 2013 21:00
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You will want to have a "foot valve" as close to the bottom of the well as possible. The hand pump will have one, but can and will lose its prime. So always have some water on hand so you can wet the well leather pump seal if it dries out. A shallow well, a foot valve may not be needed. But around the 10 foot mark or deeper, you will like the foot valve.
Some hand pumps have extension rods and the pump portion is at the bottom of the well. Then its not needed. A foot valve hold the water well too, especially with a heavy column of water setting on top of it.
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skootamattaschmidty
Member
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# Posted: 11 May 2013 01:34 - Edited by: skootamattaschmidty
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Like Just said, water can be very helpful if you have access. When I installed mine I rigged up a fitting on the end of my pipe to hook the garden hose up to it so I could have water pressure in the point. It worked like a dream. The pressure was enough to wash the sand out that I could push the point down by hand.
Good luck and let us know how you make out!
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JoshG
Member
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# Posted: 11 May 2013 21:34
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Gregjman, where in central Wisconsin are you? You're right in my neck of the woods. I have driven a couple using a jackhammer with a tent stake driving bit. I just did one in December up in Phillips, 28' and took me about 45 minutes.
Once you get it in the ground, you need to flush the point somehow. One way of doing it is to take a garden hose from another water source if available, and stick it down the casing to wash out the point. Obviously, if you are driving this as your first and primary source of water on site, that is not a very good option. I went with another option to do mine. I got several pieces of fiberglass chimney sweeper cleaning rods that thread together. I made a rubber washer that connected to the first section with a nut. Washer the same size as the inner diameter of the casing. Drop that down, and thread on another section and repeat until you are at the bottom of the point, and then vigorously move it up and down like a plunger for several minutes. Repeat that step a few times. That will clean out any fines out of your point, and open up a small reservoir of water. Hook up the pump and flush the well until you have good clean water coming out.
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JoshG
Member
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# Posted: 11 May 2013 21:38
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Also, are you using a drive cap?
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Gregjman
Member
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# Posted: 12 May 2013 19:41 - Edited by: Gregjman
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Quoting: JoshG Gregjman, where in central Wisconsin are you? You're right in my neck of the woods.
South central Waushara County.
I started with a new point today. Long story short I made it 16' and had to stop.
Here's the interesting/confusing part. I have a 5' hole dug around my pipe to start it right now. Last weekend I emptied a 5 gallon bucket of water in that hole and it sat there for 15 minutes or more before draining out. Now today around 15.5' I filled the pipe with water (from a bucket I brought from home) and it drained completely from the pipe in under 30 seconds.
I dropped the string down and found it to be wet for about 1.5' at the bottom.
It was at this point that my sacrificial pipe gave out. For the heck of it I attached my saturated pitcher pump, primed it and pumped with good suction for about a minute, then I heard air and it let loose. I think the point might be halfway passed the static water level line, it's all that makes sense to me.
I tried the string again, still at a foot and a half. The confusing part is now I filled the pipe again and it drained very very slow. Did I plug the point up trying to pull water without backflushing it? Maybe I haven't even hit water yet.
Ill go back next weekend or so and first see if I still have a foot and a half at the bottom. If I haven't hit water I would assume it should drain out by then.
At this point I have a three way tie on the pipe securing it while I drive with a post hole driver on a 3.5' sacrificial pipe. My drive cap will not fit under any post hold driver I have found and a sledge hammer is not the way to go. Every time the pipe mushrooms over I hacksaw the end off.
my well rig
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all tied up
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our pines
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Popeye
Member
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# Posted: 12 May 2013 20:23 - Edited by: Popeye
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If the well will take water, it will give water. My guess is you are 1.5 feet into the water table and the sand point is partially clogged. The sand point can be blown out with an air compressor. Using a series of bushing reducers to get down to 3/8", hook up the air hose. Once the air tank is filled, open the valve quickly. It may take 2 or 3 times to get it cleaned out,
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JoshG
Member
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# Posted: 12 May 2013 20:48
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I agree with Popeye. Sounds like you just hit the water table. Definitely want to go deeper. Keep in mind you want to allow for dry years also, when the water table could go lower.
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Gregjman
Member
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# Posted: 12 May 2013 21:45
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That's encouraging. I have about two feet of pipe exposed above grade at the moment. I have a five foot section up there yet. Would it be a problem if I attached that pipe and drove the whole works another 4-5 feet and left 2-3 feet above grade for my pump to rest on? Or should I maybe buy a 2 or three foot section instead of the five footer?
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 12 May 2013 22:08
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if you go to a wrecking yard and get a 3 in drive shaft out of a old truck you can make a large driver that a cap will fit in,I would lend you mine but it might be a long drive up to Canada ..
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Gregjman
Member
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# Posted: 12 May 2013 22:22 - Edited by: Gregjman
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Yeah that sounds like a good driver.
Haven't been that far north in a few years.
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JoshG
Member
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# Posted: 13 May 2013 10:31
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I would definitely bury a full five foot section, and possibly even another. If you are only 1.5' into the water table, it won't take much of a dry spell for your well to go dry. I would think it would be a good idea to have about 10' of water in the pipe, if possible. I guess I should ask, what is your purpose for the well? Are you building a cabin, is it an ocassional camp site, water for a garden, etc.?
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Gregjman
Member
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# Posted: 13 May 2013 13:24
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Camping and future cabin site. Ill take it down as far as I can I guess.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 13 May 2013 16:28 - Edited by: Just
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you can go too deep if there is a layer of clay below the sand and you drive the point into the clay it will stop all the water.. ask a local person they will know . you can always go deeper it's hard to come up !!!!
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sparky1
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2013 09:08
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can you >turn> and drive the sand point & piping which might help let it "dig" at the same time?
sparky1.s.Va.
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BlaineHill
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2013 12:31 - Edited by: BlaineHill
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Thanks for starting this post Gregjman. This is a project I am going to attempt in the near future at my own cabin and I found lots of good info here. Especially the part about the long sacrificial pipe to avoid hitting the first coupler with the driver. It's kind of nasty, but my outhouse pit has held 1 to 2 feet of ground water since I dug it. I am hoping that is an indicator of a shallow water table.
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Sustainusfarm
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2013 13:03
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We are in Richford, wi....go into Wautoma and rent their jack hammer with point ponder fitting...we did one last fall! Easy and cheap! Here is a link to the videos we made of the process.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=flYs98xBEZo
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Gregjman
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2013 13:32
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I should have updated in this thread but my neighbors hit water at 50'. I stopped at 21 and am currently installing a rainwater collection system instead. I'd say that was the most important thing to do (find out where your water is before starting) unless you enjoy literally throwing money away.
Gained a lot of experience though.
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Sustainusfarm
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2013 17:00
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I checked the USGS survey and it said in south central and eastern Waushara county you should hit water at 22-27 ft!?! NOT!
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