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bike for days
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# Posted: 29 Oct 2013 12:28
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Hi y'all. First post and newbie here.
So, a friend has some land on the east coast (around the MD/PA) border, and we have been discussing building there for about a year now. Finally verified that of a certain size no permit is needed.
Debated tiny house on trailer versus cabin versus shipping container, blah blah. Finally it came down to cabin because the property is filled with ram rod straight trees of a nice diameter (foot tapering to eight inches with very few limbs). Free wood as far as the eye can see!
Except the catch is there is like no pine in these woods. And the few cedars I saw were scrub brush sized. So the rest seems like hardwood, but I'm not too good at identifying trees.
So yeah, no pic on hand of the different types of tree (I know, I know, a pic is worth a thousand internet words) but I'm pretty sure there is at least some oak, if not white oak, comparing the leaf type.
Does anyone know what species of trees grow in MD (near Fredrick) that would be good for cabin building? If they need some preservative that's ok if it's another step, just want to find something that is fairly resilient.
It occurred to me that people back in the day must have built from what was on hand, and didn't ship in any white/yellow pine to build in MD, so what did they use? Thanks!
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cabinbiscuits
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# Posted: 29 Oct 2013 14:13
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You probably have several varieties of oaks and maples there. We have land in PA and I had a State Forrester come out and walk my land with me a few weeks back, and that is mostly what we have. I never realized that there were so many varieties of Oaks, I only knew about white and red, but then there are many sub- types and black oaks and so on. The forester told me that at one time the entire state of PA was nearly clear cut so the hardwoods we have now were not the original predominate species of trees that were here back in the 1600 and 1700's, before the native timber harvest.
Since Frederick is not that far from me, I presume much of that info probably holds true for your area as well.
I think you are right about people back in the day, they were probably building more with the native pines and spruces and so on than with the hardwoods that are populating the woodlands of today in this area.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 29 Oct 2013 14:33
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I'd get positive ID on species and check specs on rot resistance and movement as they dry. Log builders used whatever was there, like you say. I'd avoid poplars and cottonwoods unless you get an assurance they are somewhat rot resistant. You going to build log, or slice it up and frame?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 29 Oct 2013 14:36
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Quoting: bike for days It occurred to me that people back in the day must have built from what was on hand, and didn't ship in any white/yellow pine to build in MD, so what did they use?
They used whatever they had available. It was not always the best thing for the purpose but they needed shelter in a hurry so they cut the local trees. Not sure what could be there but the state forestry office should be able to help with that.
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Just
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# Posted: 29 Oct 2013 16:17
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Most any wood will do if you keep it dry . build the cabin well up off the ground and with at least 3 ft. of overhanging roof .
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HoosierDad
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# Posted: 29 Oct 2013 19:56
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Oak and chestnut were both common hardwoods used for cabin building in pioneer times. Many other species were probably used as well.
I think the main reason pines are used in much of the country today is price. Huge pine plantations are common through the US - hence, pine logs are always cheaper than equivalent oak logs, for example.
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thebarista
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2013 09:58
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Hi,
I don't have an answer to your question, but I do have another question for you - I am looking to build a permit-free home in MD and you say you've determined the right size to build permit free - do you think you could share that information, or point me in the right direction? It would be much appreciated.
Thank you!
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2013 11:07
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Quoting: thebarista - I am looking to build a permit-free home in MD and you say you've determined the right size to build permit free -
First, Happy Thanksgiving!!
Second, the state of Maryland uses the IBC and IRC codes; IRC for 1 & 2 family residential buildings. But the counties set the rules for when a permit is required. In some cases city or town gpvernments may also have requirements. Check with the county. They may have a dedicated building permit office, or simply have a general permit office that issues them. They will also know the rules as to when a permit is required. That info is not secret, it is public record. You should be able to obtain a free copy of the rules about when a permit is required. That will most likely be available online for the county where the proposed project will be built.
There will be a shed or utility building category that does not require building permits. Anything under a certain size will not need a building permit. But there are going to be triggers that make a building permit mandatory. Here's a note from the balitimore county rule book...
"If the structure exceeds 120 square feet, a building permit is required.
If it is 120 square feet or less, a permit is not required, unless:
... it will be used for livestock or human occupancy. - permit required
... it is located in a designated "Chesapeake Bay Critical Area" - permit required
... it is located in a 100 year floodplain - permit required
... it is located in a "Baltimore County Historic District" - permit required."
(My emphasis in bold) Some folks don't see that part in bold, or think it won't apply to them. So, back to my main point; check with county or local government before starting. Sometimes the planning and zoning office handles building permits.
There are many things that do not require permits and a surprising number that do. Some can be surreptitiously be avoided. But, IMO, building a structure to live in full or part time is not normally one of them. Grumpy neighbors turn in a surprising number of people.
G/L and if it is true that a non permit residence can be built then that is great news for you. Maybe pass the code/rule references along in that case.
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thebarista
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2013 18:15
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Thanks for the quick response - I have looked online at the county website, but I find it all a bit confusing (to illustrate, I'm about to google IBC and IRC codes). I'm not that far along in my planning, but if there were to be a size restriction put on my house plans I was hoping know early on - I guess I'll have to break down and call the offices...
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2013 18:54 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Look up the IRC for what rules are to be followed for the construction phase. That is the code used for one and two family residential construction and it does not apply to exempt structures like sheds. The IBC is what is used by engineers and architects designing commercial structures, triplexes and quadplexes and anything that is not prescriptively handled by the IRC for the one and two family residences. The IRC and IBC do not have anything to do with what can be built w/o a permit; that is more of a zoning and planning thing. That comes under state, county or local laws. The info for what permits are needed and not needed for is usually located right alongside the building permit application or in the application itself. That is where that Baltimore county info was sourced.
What county, if you don't mind?
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2013 22:38 - Edited by: PA_Bound
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MtnDon, from the description "near Frederick" I would guess that to be Frederick County. Frederick (the city) is in the middle of Frederick County.
Bike, as noted earlier by MtnDon, I would make sure you read all the fine print and make sure you confirm a cabin (and well or sanitation) will not require a permit. I'll admit to having not looked at the permit requirements as they relate to cabins, but I live in Frederick County and know from experience that the county is pretty heavy on regulation when it comes to inhabited structures. And the county inspectors are very active.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2013 23:04
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Yeah, might be Frederick, their website is not as clear as many others on precisely spelling out what a permit is Not needed for. But then they do seem to require a permit, or multiple permits, for darn near everything. They do state sheds under 150 sq ft do not need a permit. But they have no definitions on what makes or breaks a shed. Many places spell out that if human habitation is intended a permit is required no matter the size.
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