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BucksAndBeards
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# Posted: 6 Mar 2014 09:39 - Edited by: BucksAndBeards
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Hello, new guy here. For the last year I have been second guessing what I would like to build on the 80 acres of woodland I recently bought. I have considered multiple size cabins and designs.
My back story, I am happily married and have 3 daughters (ages 10, 5 and 1). My wife and I both have good jobs and are college educated. She could care less about the camp, but I am trying to expose my daughters to more than just iPads and shopping malls. I have great memories of being at the hunting cabin my father is part of in the Adirondacks. I'm 33 years old and have been going there for the last 25 years. I still get up there a couple times a year, but now that I have my own land I want a place for my own family.
My question is this:
How big of a cabin should I build?
I have three college educations we are saving for (likely nowhere near enough) and likely three costly weddings down the road. The cabin will be off grid. I was thinking a 16' x 32' gambrel with high loft converted for sleeping space. I see this size cabin costing me 25-30k completely finished inside. I would pre buy the shell from the Amish and finish the inside (as time and more importantly money allows).
I have also greatly considered Stoney's design. I think it is absolutley genius. I was thinking a similar size cabin as above, built on piers, but Im doing all of the work in this example. Free time is hard to come by in my world. I think Stoney's design would cost me alot less (12-15k) total.
This project needs to be balanced financially with other needs away from the country land. A year after buying the land and Im still sitting on the sidelines. 
Thoughts welcome....
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 6 Mar 2014 10:22
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Welcome to the forum. I think it's great that you want to expose your girls to the great outdoors- an experience they'll remember all their lives.
My first thought, given your description, is that with 4 women in the house the issues of privacy and a comfortable bathroom would be high priority. This aint a hunting cabin for the boys. So a flush toilet and hot shower in a spacious bathroom, and private bedrooms or dressing areas seems like should be primary focus.
So size will depend on what minimum floor plan you choose. You'll probably get the most bang for your buck with your gambrel/loft design. So I'd focus on the floor plan, and make a cardboard mockup so you can show it to the family and see how they like it, and if they have suggestions.
Just preliminary thoughts
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BucksAndBeards
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# Posted: 6 Mar 2014 10:47 - Edited by: BucksAndBeards
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Thank you for the thoughts bldginsp. I definitely agree with you. I planned on having the upstairs be a get away spot for the girls. Each girl would likely have their own small room. I plan on using a metal roof and storing the water in a rainwater collection system. I would then plumb the kitchen sink and bathroom. I would love a well but the pricing so far cant be justified. The girls will likely sleep over 10 nights a year or less. This is more of a spot for my father and I come archery/shotgun season, but I need to ensure the kids feel welcome at all times. I feel somewhat rushed as my 10 year old is more than halfway to graduation. I want to create these memories before boyfriends come into the picture and before its not cool to be hanging out with your parents
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 6 Mar 2014 11:00
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Some preliminary questions are, what bureaucratic rules and regulations must be met at the location for the cabin. You need to know what you can do, what you can not do and what you must not do before designing the structure. Maybe that has all been researched, but it was not mentioned and past experiences have shown not everyone does good homework on that before starting. Septic / sanitation rules, etc. Foundations that local rules allow.
One thing that can be an issue with a gambrel roof / loft plan is getting sufficient insulation into the gambrel roof, or any roof that is built with a cathedral ceiling.
As for size, that depends a lot on how much closeness everyone tolerates. Only you have any idea about that and your family.
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SE Ohio
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# Posted: 6 Mar 2014 11:01
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Bucksandbeards,
I like bldginsp's idea of a cardboard mockup. Make sure you drop in cardboard furniture and include doors/windows/heat source, etc. Good planning tool.
I have a single-room 14 x 24'. My youngest had several milestones there, including his first steps. We're off grid with a solar panel and 12 volt lighting and stereo. It's a bit cozy now that the boys are 10 , 8 and 4.
We plan to add on two small rooms, one for parents, the other a kid's bunkroom. We'll be keeping rooms small for minimal heat source requirements, and the idea that quality time is spent in common room (14 x 24 with wood stove and kitchen) or outdoors, preferably. My wife is fine with our composting toilet, but your mileage may vary 
Keep in mind that heat rises, and lofts can become uncomfortably hot while main floor is comfy. This is especially true with woodburning stoves. Several times we've arrived to a cold cabin, started the woodstove, gone to bed and had to get up a few hours later to open the windows to let out excess heat! Loft would have been unbearably hot.
Our additional rooms will have wall-mounted vented propane heaters. There are models that have thermostat and don't need electric.
In summary, you might consider designing with a common area with woodstove, 2 bedrooms with propane heat, and a loft for storage. The family can tolerate composting toilet or porta potty?
Let us know what you do- This forum is good for feedback if you put together some plans or a model.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 6 Mar 2014 12:40
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I don't think you will have enough water if you don't have a well. How are four women going to be able to bathe if you have to conserve water?
Lofts are hot,off grid in the summer sleeping up there is very uncomfortable. Think about building a screened sleeping porch for the summer months.
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BucksAndBeards
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# Posted: 6 Mar 2014 13:26 - Edited by: BucksAndBeards
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Im thinking I will drop the loft idea and make the first floor larger. It will be easier to build that way (no where near as high off the ground) and I wont have such a high ceiling for the heat to rise up to. My township is very relaxed on the building codes, as it relates to what you actually build, but a permit is needed for anything above 140 ft2.
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VTweekender
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# Posted: 6 Mar 2014 14:42
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Finished, you can figure pretty close to $50 per square foot, thats doing a lot of it yourself, that might dictate what size you will wind up with.
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Borrego
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# Posted: 7 Mar 2014 18:26
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Is your city going to let you build whatever you want? Or will they hold you to that 140sf? Or, are you far away enough that they won't know? My case was the latter, so I built what I wanted. This is the first question you need to answer....if they hold you to a 14 x 10, you can build several and join them at a later date if you plan ahead...
But it sounds like you have enough land to do what you want, and your size sounds about right.VT Weekender is pretty close with his estimate, I built everything myself and am just a hair under that so far. One thing I've learned and added is to make use of out doors space as much as possible. It is easier to build (sometimes), doesn't always need permitting, and can add a feel of 'extra living space' to your cabin making it feel much larger. The screen porch SWL mentioned is a must, I think, sleeping and bug relief.... And wrap around decks will let you plan in many gathering areas, outdoor showers, BBQ areas and the like. I wouldn't give up on the loft just yet, it is not going to be warm every time you're there and you may appreciate the extra space at times...
Good luck and keep asking questions, there are lots of folks on here with great ideas!
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ShabinNo5
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# Posted: 7 Mar 2014 21:51
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Up front I can state that I do not have a clear answer.
The building does not have to be perfect. A typical summer weekend for us is my wife, step daughter, grand daughter and myself. Showers are the solar bags and the bathroom is a porta potty. Someday we will have showers from water collected off the roof and an operational incinerating toliet. Sleeping is two cots and a futon, all in the same room. Cooking is the grill or firepit. Currently the Shabin is 10 X 20. However the living space is currently limited to 10 X 11. We also have neighbors with three young daughters who's cabin is an 8 X 10 shed. Yes it is crowded at times and we are striving for more room. However my grand daughter (age 7) still tells everyone that the Shabin as her favorite place.
As MtDon pointed out, everyone has their own tolerances, but from my perspective the Cabin experiance expands beyond the building. Maybe you can find a design that allows for expansion, yet offers affordabe and acceptable shelter for the next few years.
Good Luck and keep posting,
Steve
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2014 14:06 - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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I would not rule out the loft. Certain times of the year it is perfect for sleeping. A loft is also great for storage. I don't know where we would keep our extra stuff without the loft.
In a few years we will be adding a smaller second loft to our cabin accessed via a catwalk we have already built. It will be used as extra sleeping space with a built in full sized bed that one can lift for extra storage.
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redlandfd
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# Posted: 9 Mar 2014 21:58
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my quick answer(s) - 14 x 24 two full stories 4:12 roof pitch OR a 14 x 24 one story with a deck that could be converted to a dogtrot if you decided to expand by adding another 14 x 24 section.
It will be a fun experience
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SubArcticGuy
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# Posted: 12 Mar 2014 09:38
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I positioned my 16x16 with a loft so that I can easily build off the back and extend it to the back. Then I just put a large, wide window in the back wall so that I can utilize the header if I ever decide to add two bedrooms off the back. I can build a 8'x16' extension and the window would become a 2 doorways (each bedroom).
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ssaunders
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# Posted: 14 Mar 2014 14:50
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I built a 12x24 and then decided to add a 10x10 off the side.
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bukhntr
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# Posted: 6 Apr 2014 18:50 - Edited by: bukhntr
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Originally planned on 16x24 but we reailized we could be comfortable after staying in a 12x28 vacation rental in colorado. We used it as a basic layout for our cabin. Guess it depends how you plan to use it. But vacation cabin let you test drive before you build plus an excuse to get a way. Ours sleeps 4 in a set of bunk beds and queen bed and can get a 5th person on the couch if needed, but that is getting tight. The prebuilt shed/shells should save you money and if you work with someone to build to your like you get just the way you want.
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BucksAndBeards
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2014 13:23 - Edited by: BucksAndBeards
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Well, I have been making some early progress. I found this 1.5 year old 12x24 Woodtex shed for sale on craigslist. The lady I bought the shed from was in a bad way financially. I bought it for less than half the cost of a new one, including the fee to transport it 55 miles away to my land.
This week I started bulldozing the new roadway and build site to move the shed onto. Bulldozer cleared the road on Monday then sadly Tuesday and Wednesday were horribly wet in NYS, multiple inches of rain! I have 15 gravel trucks lined up for Tuesday next week to lay #4 gravel over my geotextile fabric on the new 850' driveway. Supposed to be dry until then, hopefully the road firms up.
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BucksAndBeards
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# Posted: 23 Nov 2015 12:24
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I'm thinking I will build an addition to my shed. I want to extend it out 20' x 24' with a shed overhang from one of the upper sections of the gambrel roof.
My question is this:
The original shed is 12' x 24' and sits on 4" x 4" skids. There is 6" of crusher run gravel under the skids. For my 20' x 24' addition can this also be built on top of grade?
I'm hoping I don't have to set the outer corner supports of the addition in the ground as bedrock is 10" below grade. I expect the shed currently moves when the frost comes out of the ground each spring. Will an addition move evenly with the original building or will things buckle? The frost guidelines for my area call for a 50" depth. Since the original building floats on top of grade I would think the last thing I would want to do is anchor the addition.
Thoughts?
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Don_P
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# Posted: 23 Nov 2015 18:30
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...The bedrock is below frost depth, it isn't moving, so you have 10" of soil subject to frost heave, squat unless it's a mudbog between you and the rock. That is a world class stone foundation under you, Everything should be pinned to it and you're solid as a, never mind
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