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optimistic
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2014 14:51
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I noticed, using those small power testers, that both the white and the black, coming from the generator have Power... Is my generator broken or is this how it is supposed to be?
We discovered this when we dropped the circuit breaker but still had power... Very wesk power but we did. When we followed it back we found that the generator itself is giving power on both the white and black line.. We stuck the tester in each of the generator outlet holes and both have Power..
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2014 16:07
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It is AC. Behaves much different than DC.
Black is "line" while white is neutral. But on our generators, we dont not have line, line and neutral, just line and line, no neutral as its not a 220V unit with a WYE would stator (Y) . So in reality, the generator produces 110VAC on a single coil (line and line, ie each end of the stator coil), the inverter just electronically keeps it consistent at 60 Hz regardless of engine speed.
When you are testing the white wire, where is the other lead hooked too? Ground? Are you seeing a voltage difference from a poor connection? Maybe bond your generator to your grounds? But you may have to remove the bond at your panel and insulate the white wires from the grounds? Install the ground buss bar and add a ground rod???
I dont think it will ever be an issue, you only noticed it with a very sensitive electronic tester. Otherwise, you would never know it.
All my answer is speculation, I have never measured my voltages on both legs of my AC while hooked to my EU2000i
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2014 16:28 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: optimistic We stuck the tester in each of the generator outlet holes and both have Power.
Normal, if you mean you stuck a probe in each of the slotted terminals. The narrower slot is the black (hot) and the wide slot is the white (neutral). You need the pair to deliver 120 VAC power to a device. The third, the ground, is not a part of that duty. The ground is simply there as a safety.
Try it out on an outlet at home. Works the same.
The breaker that was dropped may have been damaged
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optimistic
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2014 07:36 - Edited by: optimistic
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You guys are way over my league...
I guess, if I understand you correctly, then this is normal... I simply connected an extension cord to my generator and then stock in the slots of the extension cord my tester and both were live which is not what one gets at home... Only the black wire is usually hot.
In my cabin, when you touch the white terminal, it gives off a bit of power.
I discovered this when we dropped the circuit breaker so we can connect this light and we got zapped and thought that was strange... We thought we didn't wire something correctly but we instead found that the white is live as well.
Here is a photo of the inside of my box
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2014 10:34 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Let's go back to square one.
Quoting: optimistic In my cabin, when you touch the white terminal, it gives off a bit of power.
Touch the white with what? How? finger? meter?
Can't tell from the picture but does that have the ground (bare) wires 'bonded' (connected together) to the white neutral at any point?
Quoting: optimistic not what one gets at home... Only the black wire is usually hot.
Again, what is being used and how? What two points are being used to connect the test instrument to the outlet?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2014 10:37
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And just to refresh our memories is the EU2000i the only 120 VAC power source or is 120 VAC sometimes coming from an inverter that also feeds the same panel. If so how are they switched?
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optimistic
Member
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2014 18:58
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Don - Quoting: MtnDon Touch the white with what? How? finger? meter?
With this - http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-Non-Contact-Voltage-Tester-2202-20/202527103?sto reId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053
Quoting: MtnDon Can't tell from the picture but does that have the ground (bare) wires 'bonded' (connected together) to the white neutral at any point?
No. It does not touch the white at any point. It goes out the cabin to a copper pipe that is deep in the ground.
Quoting: MtnDon Again, what is being used and how? What two points are being used to connect the test instrument to the outlet?
I just touch with the tester, while the generator is running = giving power to the cabin, either the black (hot) or white (neutral) and the blakc will peep strongly while the white will beep less... Assuming it has less power. At home if I do the same - I get no power at all on white.
Quoting: MtnDon And just to refresh our memories is the EU2000i the only 120 VAC power source or is 120 VAC sometimes coming from an inverter that also feeds the same panel. If so how are they switched?
No inverter. The honda is connected vie an extension cord, that connects to this - http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-4937-Weatherproof-Wallplate-Receptacle/dp/B00074USHY/re f=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1414537109&sr=8-9&keywords=power+inlet
then from there straight to the electric box.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2014 19:39
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OK those are handy for determing the presence of AC voltage. I have never stuck one into my generator to see what happens. I'll try to do that tomorrow and report. They are supposed to only beep when touched to a hot wire. Not sure what a lesser beeping on the white means. That takes warm air and blows it out the bottom; warms your feet they say.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 29 Oct 2014 14:50
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I don't know what to make of this? I started our EO2000i and got out my tester that is similar to the one Opti has. It did not beep at all no matter what I did. But the generator was producing 120 VAC as indicated by my Fluke meter and by the fact that it ran the A/C unit in the trailer. The tester works as expected on household grid power and I also know it works correctly on the inverter supplied 120 VAC at the cabin. No idea what that means.
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old243
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# Posted: 29 Oct 2014 16:24
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Should the bare wires in the panel not be bonded to the panel frame? Then a jumper from the panel frame to the neutral bar. This would make the ground and neutral common. This would also make the neutral common with the ground rod, and eliminate ground transient flow. Not sure if this applies with a generator. I know transient ( stray ) voltage can be a real problem , at barns where animals are housed, particularly dairy operations. old243
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 29 Oct 2014 17:24 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: old243 Should the bare wires in the panel not be bonded to the panel........
When grid tied, Yes. When the power source is a generator or an inverter, with a built in receptacle(s), No, most of the time. Inverters and generators with a built in receptacle are supposed to have the neutral and ground bonded within the generator/inverter. The reasoning is that if there is a receptacle most people are going to plug their devices directly into the gen/inv. Having duplicate bonds can cause issues.
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optimistic
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2014 09:25
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Don - then perhaps it is an issue I have with my generator. I did buy it used and one of receptacles on it is broken but does work.... I'll post a photo in a few hours. Perhaps because it's broken it somehow moved something internally that touch the black and white?
Just brainstorming here
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2014 10:30
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The recptacle can be changed. That may be the cause of the leak. And the leak may only be thru the air... thr sensor picking up what it senses because a piece of plastic is broken and not blocking. There is no direct electrical connection between those testers and the metal wires and prongs, etc.
I have one of those blocks that converts a twin outlet to a six.... something in it caused the neutral prong on 4 of the 6 to read power.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2014 10:42 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Man, that panel is a mess inside. You can purchase extra buss bars for the grounds to keep them separate from the neutrals, right at Home Depot in the panel sections. Then there is a bonding screw you remove to separate it electrically, ie for sub panel, in your case, generator etc.
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