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thepalletco
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# Posted: 5 Jan 2015 23:01
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I am looking at putting a prebuilt shed on my property to use for partial storage and weekend cabin use. I have found these shed that are built on 4 x 6 treated skids and framed with 2x4 at 24"O.C. The outside consist of 29g metal siding and roofing and its screwed directly into the 2x4s and purlins. What issues would this cause if I was trying to frame this up a cabin since it is just fastened directly into the studs. Does there need to be plywood in between or do I just worry about doing that for the inside? I want to be able to put a wood stove and a few beds in there for a hunting cabin and this seemed the most cost efficient. Thanks for any help as I am a newb.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2015 01:25
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Better put a vapor barrier under the metal or that thing will drip water or I guess spray foam insulation is the other option.
Code for habitation is going to be different. If its not heated, your insulation is a non issue. Normally, habitation is 16" OC, sheer walls with plywood outside. I suspect the tin is to make it lighter? I suppose you could custom order it, tell them you want 16" OC, you area, to get right insulation, may have to go 2X6, what about roof ventilation, you want some air space above insulation etc.
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thepalletco
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2015 09:35
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My guess is someone might stay there 1-2 nights a month max. I do plan to put a stove in there so I guess the spray insulation would spray directly onto the metal then add the plywood walls... correct? We are in Middle Tennessee so the winters and summers aren't too bad except for humidity. As far as roof ventilation would it be possible with this type of a shed?
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2015 16:47
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Why not just go with a pre-fab wood shed and finish that? They make nice cabins. The cost difference might not be that great as opposed to trying to modify the metal aspect.
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22hemi13
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2015 18:52
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Yeah I'd look into a portable building. All wood and true walls. Looks like there is hardly any studs or anything. Could be very difficult to do interior. Plus the overall strength and security of good framing will be worth it in long run.
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thepalletco
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2015 10:03
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The pre-fab all wood are about a grand or more higher than the metal. The metal have studs 24.OC while the all wood ones around here are 16. OC. Might just have to look at the wooden sheds or try and find a used one that we can possibly add on to at a later date.
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Steve961
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# Posted: 9 Jan 2015 23:47
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I would stay away from the metal shed if at all possible. With the metal walls you will be forced to insulate with closed cell spray foam insulation. Spray foam is the only insulation that will create a perfect vapor barrier and prevent moisture from condensing on the metal walls.
The other issue is that the spray foam will literally glue the metal panels to the studs. If you ever have to replace a metal panel due to damage, the level of effort would be enormous.
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JJHess
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# Posted: 10 Jan 2015 11:25
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Another vote for staying away from the metal version.
If you've ever seen a metal pole building going up, if it is going to be conditioned on the inside, they use large batts of fiberglass insulation wrapped in plastic that is applied to the exterior of the perlins before the metal is installed. This is a continuous, unbroken vapor barrier & thermal break.
Our cabin is a 16'x40' wood shed that we are finishing as time and hunting seasons permit. Studs & joists are 16" centers, trusses are 24". It is so much nicer finishing when you don't have to add a bunch more wood just for interior nailers. and such.
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thepalletco
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2015 12:38
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Well we found a shed to purchase that is all wood with shingles instead of the metal siding. They seem much nicer so I guess you get what you pay for. Unfortunately I decided to contact the county to see if there were any restrictions here in Middle TN and I am unable to put a shed on the property that I OWN unless there is a primary residence there. Seems kind of ridiculous so I am going to have to start looking at other options since I don't live on the property. I guess they could consider it a residence but then they'll want septic and a whole other load of mess to get that set up. Anyone else ran into these problems or have any suggestions.
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2015 16:13
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Quoting: thepalletco Unfortunately I decided to contact the county to see if there were any restrictions here
rule # 1~~ don't ask ....it's your property. They will make you a outlaw
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GreatOutdoors
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2015 17:46
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Quoting: turkeyhunter Quoting: thepalletco Unfortunately I decided to contact the county to see if there were any restrictions here rule # 1~~ don't ask ....it's your property. They will make you a outlaw
Rule # 2 - If you feel the need to ask - don't tell them who you are or where your land is located 
BTW - would you mind sharing which county in TN that has this requirement?
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GreatOutdoors
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2015 18:02
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Have you looked at the agricultural building exemption in TN? You might want to look at this info.
Of course if you classify your shed as an agricultural building - they wouldn't look kindly if they found out you were living in it 
Tennessee building code:
https://archive.org/stream/gov.tn.building/tn_building_djvu.txt
105.2 Work exempt from permit. Exemptions from permit requirements of this code shall not be deemed to grant authorization for any work to be done in any manner in violation of the provisions of this code or any other laws or ordinances of this jurisdiction. Permits shall not be required for the following:
Building:
1. One-story detached accessory structures used as tool and storage sheds, playhouses and similar uses, provided the floor area does not exceed 120 square feet (11 m2).
From the Rutherford county planning website:
http://www.rutherfordcountytn.gov/planning/faqs.htm
Do agricultural structures require building permits?
• If the property is at least 5 acres in size and has an established agricultural use, any structures used exclusively for agricultural purposes are exempt from building permits and related fees. However, a Certificate of Zoning Compliance should be completed in the Planning & Engineering Dept. and provided to the Building Codes Dept.
• Agricultural use is a use by right if the above conditions exist. It is not a zoning classification.
From Putnam county:
http://www.putnamcountytn.gov/?p=departments&s=building
Exempt Structures
- Agricultural buildings such as barns, sheds and storage sheds.
*Check with the planning department for details on exempt structures.
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2015 22:27
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Quoting: GreatOutdoors Of course if you classify your shed as an agricultural building - they wouldn't look kindly if they found out you were living in it
AND ...if ya put up a gate at the end of your driveway..NO ONE will never know if ya keep a bed or 2 in it OR farm tools/feed & seed...LOL..keep those curtains over the windows or feed sacks over them when you are not there!!!!
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thepalletco
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2015 22:39
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Well they don't know my name or property location. I was vague on the details they received from me. The property is in Rutherford County TN. The property is gated and hidden pretty well so they would have zero chance of seeing it from the road and so wooded you couldn't see it on a flyby. There's no real ag going on (yet) but might have to look at the ag exemption and figure out how to make that work. It's around 80 acres total and I've seen the 100 or 120 sqft exemption but that is just too small for what I want to do
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2015 08:51
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put your property in "conservation" cuts your property taxes in HALF or more...did mine 20 years ago.
put the building in there and enjoy!!! They don't know if the building was there BEFORE you bought the property!!! Just sayin
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thepalletco
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2015 10:19
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I am under the greenbelt program right now and I just purchased it about a year ago. I did let a neighbor fence about 1.5 acres at the bottom by the road for a few cattle to graze so I might try and figure a way to do it as agriculture and it there is a cot or 3 in there so what.
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2015 21:37 - Edited by: turkeyhunter
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Quoting: thepalletco I might try and figure a way to do it as agriculture and it there is a cot or 3 in there so what.
I have my cabin and farm under "tree production" aka TREE FARM....gets a better rate on my insurance as well.
Good luck on the building...
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GreatOutdoors
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2015 22:52
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Quoting: thepalletco There's no real ag going on (yet) but might have to look at the ag exemption and figure out how to make that work
Farm products include a lot of different things.
See this link for agricultural definition in Tennessee:
http://law.justia.com/codes/tennessee/2010/title-43/chapter-1/part-1/43-1-113
As used in this definition of agriculture, the term farm products means forage and sod crops; grains and feed crops; dairy and dairy products; poultry and poultry products; livestock, including breeding and grazing; fruits; vegetables; flowers; seeds; grasses; forestry products; fish and other aquatic animals used for food; bees; equine; and all other plants and animals that produce food, feed, fiber or fur.
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thepalletco
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2015 08:59
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Turkey good to see other locals on this site. I've snooped around here for the past 4 years while we looked for land. I have lived here for all my 35 years and was fortunate enough to find some hunting land in the county that was somewhat reasonable.
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Don_P
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2015 10:39
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I am unable to put a shed on the property that I OWN unless there is a primary residence there.
BTW - would you mind sharing which county in TN that has this requirement?
This is part of the IRC, generally it is the law in 49 states. However what you asked about was an accessory structure. A non permitted accessory building has to be accessory to a primary residence. That doesn't mean you cannot build a permitted utility structure such as a garage.
Forestry is ag.
If you are using this as a habitable structure don't build more than you want to tear down.
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2015 12:49
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Quoting: Don_P Forestry is ag.If you are using this as a habitable structure don't build more than you want to tear down.
1. they have to find it
2. it a portable building aka shed you could always move it...IF it ever come to it.
3. enjoy YOUR property and new hunting shed/camp...
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neb
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2015 21:51
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When I built I just built and didn't get a permit. I really didn't even think about it till I started viewing this site. Mine is small 10x10 and a 10x12 small shop/shed. No convinces and not a permanent dwelling. I don't insure cabin or shop and taxes are about 40$ for 70 acres. If they would ask I would tell them its a chicken coup and storage shed. LOL I would classify mine as a line shack or survival cabin.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2015 23:04
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Some thoughts, for what they're worth.
Charge the neighbor $1 per year for the cattle-grazing and, presto! You're a cattle rancher for ag use purposes.
Secondly, curses on Google Earth and other satellite imagery. It enables the dang planners to take a look around county land whenever they want from the comfort of their offices. I know this because when I called to inquire about land use in a certain area, the planner got on his computer and took a look around via some program. And he caught some code violations, in the process. I was mortified! (And glad I didn't buy land in that section, heh.)
Personally, and maybe it's because I'm going to the PNW where the regs are more specific, I am leery of covert operations and stretching codes to the breaking point. My theory is that if you honestly try to work with the county, they can cut you some slack or at least be very helpful. But if they feel you're trying to get around them, they've got the laws and remedies on their side, to the tune of fines or even demolishing the cabin if they're feeling ornery.
Then there's my general wariness of "neighbors" and the fact that someone could drop a dime on you for whatever reason, or no reason whatsoever. If they see you getting away with something that they had to pay money to do, then they might call and complain.
I plan to introduce myself to my neighbors with gifts of booze and baked goods. Can't hurt.
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neb
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2015 23:28
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Quoting: Julie2Oregon Secondly, curses on Google Earth and other satellite imagery. It enables the dang planners to take a look around county land whenever they want from the comfort of their offices. I know this because when I called to inquire about land use in a certain area, the planner got on his computer and took a look around via some program. And he caught some code violations, in the process. I was mortified! (And glad I didn't buy land in that section, heh.)
Yep google earth is a curse! LOL
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thepalletco
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2015 15:30
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Yes I think the neighbor might be getting a hefty bill of around $5.00 for my prime acreage. Maybe need to add a beehive colony in there also
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Don_P
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2015 18:17
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What you will most likely need is a farm tax ID to be considered ag. I grow trees on my property, convert those trees to lumber and goods in my shop buildings. The barn was built to dry my wife's flowers for the floral trade. With the farm tax # you should be tax exempt for farm supplies. You'll also be eligible to apply for grants to help with things like soil conservation. The high tunnel we are putting up came through a USDA grant, they will help with soil stabilization and windbreaks around it as well. We got a forest managment plan free from the dept of forestry and there are grants available to help implement it if needed.
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BadgersHollow
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2015 01:21
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I'm basically turning a shed into a tiny bunk room, mostly for winter. Ill just moved it by the creek. Ill post pictures as it evolves.
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2015 09:56
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I listed mine as a tree farm though my local farm bureau insurance. No tax ID number needed.
Hope it works out that you can put your shed on YOUR PROPERTY
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Don_P
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2015 20:47
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LOL, you are not purchasing an autonomous country when you purchase land. You are still subject to the laws of the land. Laws are double edged, every time we protect someone, we also restrict someone, often unknowingly. Be very careful when you say "There ought to be a law!" Back in the day we would discuss the intent of the law with the building official in trying to interpret the law for a particular situation. In having that discussion we could often work around those unintended restrictions of someone's use and enjoyment of their property while still keeping within the good intent of the law. In the recesses of the code is what inspectors refer to as the God clause, it allows them to use their judgement. As people have become more litigious, government functionaries have become afraid to interpret law and and we have asked for more and more laws that tell them exactly what to do in every situation. I can fold my first codebook in half and slip it in my back pocket, the wall bracing section now is longer than that entire book was. Look back to the first code ~1700 BC and it was even shorter, to paraphrase, "We aren't going to tell you how to build, do a good job for fair pay. If somebody dies, so do you." I like good king Hammurabi. He was the first leader to codify, write down, the laws of his kingdom. They were carved in stone and placed in the public commons. He or any government official couldn't make up a reason to prosecute or persecute you, the law and punishment was equal for all.
A farm tax ID # is required when filing for an ag exemption for a farm building in my jurisdiction. This is not the way the law in my state reads and I have argued over this interpretation mightily with our BO. Most other jurisdictions in my state have the same interp which is the main reason why I mentioned it. It does prove one is a bona fide agricultural operation when asking for an ag building exemption. This is to avoid having the situation where someone might come in with a reciept from a neighbor for pasture rent as proof that they are farming. Yup, abuse the system and we get another law. We must still file for a building permit, comply with zoning, but then are uninspected. These are exemptions from inspection not from permitting.
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2015 21:30 - Edited by: turkeyhunter
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Quoting: Don_P We must still file for a building permit, comply with zoning
hmmmmmmmmmmm NO we don't...lol
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