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Salty Craig
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# Posted: 20 Jan 2015 20:48
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Since this site has ads from precious metal companies, I guess it's a fair topic. While I'm not a turbo prepper, I do buy silver and gold. I began buying years ago as a hobby, long before being a prepper was cool. Last week I bought a nice quantity of silver eagles for $21.50 a piece. The prices right now are a bargain. As the value of the dollar continues to fall, I like to protect a portion of my cash by buying "real money". Am I crazy for buying shiny stuff?? Oh and my savings are in cash. If ever a run on the banks happens, I won't need to go to town. One last thing, my stash cannot be found. I own many acres on three different places. I welcome all comments. Thanks
Salty Craig
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 20 Jan 2015 21:05
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as long as you memory remains good... 
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RichInTheUSA
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2015 07:37 - Edited by: RichInTheUSA
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Craig, I think having cash for an emergency fund (6 months+ of living expenses), and silver/gold to protect in case of a financial collapse or long term investment make sense. Add living debt free (including mortgages) to that... and you're good to go.
I believe the stock market is propped up, but you can still make money there since it continues to be propped up. As long as everyone is on board with the charade (or doesn't know about it), then it's good.
My concern with buying silver or gold is the mark up price or premium you pay to buy it. I just looked at APMEX and they Sell Silver Eagles for $22.71 and buy them for $19.72. That's a 15% premium!
Of course that can come down when you buy in quantity... but still, it's an immediate loss in value the second you receive your delivery. Like the loss in value of a new car after it's off the lot (one reason I don't buy new cars).
So if the S does HTF... will we have hyper inflation where the dollar will loose value and your silver/gold value will remain? Will you have people who are gonna buy it from you? Or will you be trading it for goods and services? If SHTF, who determines the price of silver or gold? If SHTF, does it make more sense to use bullets or other things people can actually use as currency?
I'm not saying you're wrong for buying it (I've done it too.. and it's very will hidden also)... just sharing some thoughts and concerns.
Perhaps one day we'll sit around a campfire at one of our cabins and continue the discussion.
Rich
Craig, check out these Molon Labe silver rounds... very cool. http://www.providentmetals.com/molon-labe-1-oz-silver-rounds.html
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2015 08:39
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I have some old coins most silver ..I kept over the years...
I collect....pics of dead presidents...AKA 100 dollar bills  since I was 16....I have quite a collection over the years...you know they are worth....what I paid for them ....never lost a dime on them..lol......I am not a gambler...but that's just me!!!
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creeky
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2015 09:36
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I have a buddy who bought a bunch of silver when it was going up up up. Now it's worth, about 1/5th of what he paid. But like you say. If times get tough, it'll have a value. And he can always go into the jewelry business.
I can't help think about the lost hoards of roman/etc coins they keep finding in Britain on those tv shows... maybe I should buy a metal detector.
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Tarmetto
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2015 10:04
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Want some interesting reading? Google "Ferfal". I started reading his blog years ago, before it got so huge that I didn't have time to keep up with it daily.
He's a professor in Argentina, and went through (still) their 1999 total economic collapse.
1st...gold/silver was useless as nobody had a way to test it for everyday local trading/bartering. It slowly grew to getting junk gold value for any gold.
At one point he could trade 10 rounds of .22 LR for a meal! He made many points about stockpiling ammo, and every day items that immediately became luxuries after the collapse....(soap, shampoo, toilet tissue, toothpaste, liquor, ect).
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2015 10:50
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Paper monies value is only "how much faith you have in the issuer". Gold & Silver have value, always will BUT as Tarmetto points out very accurately, precious metals & gems values depend on many factors.
The vendors/promoters of "buy Gold & Silver as insurance" have done their jobs well and are making tons of "cash" off those buying metals.
Other items will have far greater value for both trade and survival when things go terribly wrong. Fuels (and ability to make it) foods, seed, raw resources/materials to make things, tools that work without Power (hand/foot powered tools, trellis saws etc) will have much greater value.
How many can run a forge, fire a kiln, cast metals into goods, build a tread-wheel crane, shoe a horse (make the shoes too) etc... Modern Convenience & Dependence on the outside has taken these skills & abilities from the general population who are addicted to consumerism...
I can't help but be reminded of the one Mad Max movie (beyond thunderdome I think) where pigs were used for Garbage disposal, Methane Production and food source.
In my opinion, your better off investing in books (yes paper books) on the "ancient technologies" and taking courses & workshops that teach these skills and abilities and applying them practically. Pay off your property if you owe on it and start doing for yourself (making it when you can) and refine the abilities.
Just a thought to ponder... how many folks have Willow Trees on their properties ? How many know how to make wicker baskets & furnishings ? How many can make Wattle Fencing & wall partitions ? (not as simple as it looks on video or in print)...
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Malamute
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2015 12:40
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I would make an observation that many will disagree with. Any medium of exchange is ONLY worth whatever anyone will give you for it. That includes paper money, frog skins, red marbles, silver or gold. The last two have zero practical value to most people, the ONLY value it has is if its recognised as a trade medium. I for one, give it no more value than anything else that may be used, and far less than many practical things.
Many poo-poo paper money, but to me, and many around the world in tough times, if its accepted as a trade medium, its as good as anything. I for one would prefer to have paper cash on hand rather than metals, which are heavy and have zero practical value to most people (neither does paper money, but its accepted value as trade instrument is all were talking about with either of them). If you want to plan ahead, stocking food, basic living supplies (ever run out of toilet paper?), spices, over the counter meds, ammo, spare weapons (high trade value), and a farm tank or drums of fuel that you use and rotate. Basic camping supplies, for yourself and for trade would be good also.
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hattie
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2015 13:44
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Some people believe ammunition, weapons and booze will be worth more than gold and silver.
On one of those prepper shows there was a guy who would go to the bank and get rolls of American quarters. He said that quarters before a certain year (I can't remember the year) were silver. He would go through the rolls of coins, pull out the ones he wanted, put in newer quarters (that didn't have silver in them), take the roll back to the bank and get another roll to begin the process over again. He had quite a collection of quarters that he said had silver in them and they didn't cost him anything (except the cost of the rolls of quarters which he would turn in again later).
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shall
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2015 14:39
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I firmly believe that the dollar will lose its reserve currency status in the coming years. When this happens, cash will be worth much less immediately.
A fourth round of QE may cause this and will most certainly will cause much loss of faith in the dollar.
Silver will (imo) eventually prove to be the investment of the century. Right now, it sells for slightly less than the average cost of mining it, which can't happen forever.
Food, water and a way to defend it are just as and probably more essential.
Being in the freight industry, primarily moving food product, I see firsthand that the supply chain is an extremely fragile thing.
A freezing up of credit, which we were a hair's width away from in 2008 is all that it would take for the trucks to stop running and for food processors to stop producing. EVERYTHING runs on credit. When it freezes up, the shelves will be empty immediately.
The daisy chain of events that would follow are probably too chilling to contemplate
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Tarmetto
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2015 14:41
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Quoting: hattie Some people believe ammunition, weapons and booze will be worth more than gold and silver.
Yep!
I kinda got lucky, After reading Ferfal's blog, seeing the brief shortage after one election, then the massive shortage after the last election...I started buying a brick or two of .22lr each week starting around 2006.
Other reasons are....22lr is almost impossible to reload, and I have a legal suppressor for this caliber which makes for fairly quiet hunting, really quiet hunting when using subsonics.
I now have over 300 bricks stashed away.
They were $8.97 per when I first started buying them, now, if you can find them, they are $30-$70 per brick (I never paid over $19).
I figure my stash has increased in value over 300%, and we haven't had a SHTF yet
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2015 18:20
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I'm a "prepper light" and I also consider brass, lead and copper to be precious metals too. 
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Salty Craig
Member
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2015 18:59
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hattie
Pre 1964 quarters are 90% silver. I have some.
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Salty Craig
Member
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2015 19:16
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Thanks to everybody that chimed in. I can clearly see that I'm not the only one concerned. History tells me that our freedom has outlived it's shelf life. I'm trying to take a moderate, middle of the road approach. Yes, I have guns and plenty of ammo. I have gold, silver, and cash. Multiple pieces of real estate. Several boats. We grow and can all our veggies. Freezer is full of beef. Home and cabin are designed to heat with firewood.
Ok so from what you just read, I would appear to be a serious prepper. Not so. The way I live is pretty much how I was raised. My great grand parents lived through the Great Depression and did ok because of their own self reliance. This is a trait that has always been in my family. I'm raising my own children to rely on no one but family and the Good Lord.
If the famous, when SHTF happens, the people already dependent on government are toast.
Salty Craig
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Salty Craig
Member
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2015 19:28
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RichInTheUSA
Those rounds are real cool!! However I only buy currency. Thanks for sharing that link.
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Salty Craig
Member
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2015 19:31
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turkeyhunter
Roflshmsfoaidmt
Rolling on floor laughing so hard my sombrero fell off and I dropped my taco
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Salty Craig
Member
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2015 19:35
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shall
I fear that you are dead on.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 22 Jan 2015 21:46
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The Sioux Indians of Dakota Territory knew about the shiny yellow metal in the streams, but paid it no mind because it was useless. When the whites saw it, they went crazy. The rest is history.
I agree with Malamute that ALL commodities have relative value, gold and silver too. Look at a chart of historic gold prices- $250 in 1999, $1800 just a few years ago. When the economy does well, gold falls, and vice versa.
The only certain things are death and taxes.
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Pookie129
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2015 17:21
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Quoting: Salty Craig shall I fear that you are dead on.
I second that motion
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neb
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2015 19:51
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I don't collect but I do have about 40 silver dollars. I will have to dig them out but some are from the 1800's. I also have a few rare coins like a buffalo head where the buffalo has only 3 legs. It was a print mistake.
I do agree with Malamute how he described value.
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Salty Craig
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2015 23:08
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I am finding all your replies very interesting. One thing is for sure, time is the only thing that will tell what the best route to go was. I partially agree with those who talk about if total collapse happens the metals ain't worth anything. It is a fact that I will not use silver to wipe my butt. (At least it doesn't sound appealing).
No one will ever be able to eat precious metals. In the event of total melt down, the only thing that will matter is food and shelter. That is my priority and is where the majority of my resources are positioned.
The point that I make is this: after food, clothes, shelter, ammo, and all other preparations are made, then what is your best route to try to preserve some wealth or even just some meager savings??
I firmly believe that gold and silver isn't a fools game. I don't want all my eggs in one basket, so I'm trying to diversify. If things fall apart for real, 401k's and IRA's won't be worth the paper they're printed on. Cash will work if it's in your hand. Most money is digitized, meaning there's not even enough cash in circulation to satisfy all the dollar signs.
We left the gold standard because there wasn't enough gold to cover the cash. Now we are digitizing because there's not enough cash to cover the dollar signs. People in this country laugh at their neighbors buying gold, meanwhile China buys it like its going out of style.
I'm voting that if the dollar collapses, and society is able to remain civil, the dude with the gold will be king. It has bought food since Bible times during famines.
Salty Craig
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shall
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2015 13:07
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spot on, Salty Craig
if (when) there is a collapse, which many whose opinions and track records I respect say is a mathematical certainty, food, shelter, etc... will get you through the period of collapse, however it's important to be aware that this period will eventually pass and when it does, it will be the holders or real tangible assets (not paper) who come out winners on the other side.
I just pray that we will retain our freedoms on the other side.
for folks interested in this sort of thing, there are countless pundits who opine on the subject. I keep up with many, but Bill Holter is someone who I now read every day. His insights are outstanding as well as his ability to explain it to the "everyman" like myself.
here is his archive of columns
http://blog.milesfranklin.com/category/authors/bill-holter
There's a lot of noise out there, but one thing that I always keep in mind...listen to those who have been spot on in the past, such as Peter Schiff and be leery of the voices who have been dead wrong in the past (typical CNBC, Bloomberg talking head)
Here's a video of Peter Schiff prior to the last meltdown. If you watch it, keep in mind that he is predicting much worse things right around the corner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgRGBNekFIw
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Salty Craig
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2015 21:24
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shall
Thanks for sharing those links bud. I will check em out.
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RichInTheUSA
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2015 07:51
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Craig, I'm reading the book "Going Galt" by Daxton Brown... The subtitle is "Surviving Economic Armageddon".
So far it's a good book -- while the first few chapters cover what to do with your money to preserve wealth before, during, and after a financial meltdown... it quickly turns into a generic prepper book. I don't mind that, but when I first bought it... I thought it would be entirely about finances.
Good read nevertheless.
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Salty Craig
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2015 20:56
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RichInTheUSA
The financial part sounds real interesting. The prepper part....not so much. I believe in being prepared, but the real preppers that have bomb shelters and all that stupid crap make people like me who want to be prepared look stupid. Preparedness has always been in my family for generations. It means next years crop might not turn out. It means have food put up for winter. It means have firewood stacked high. It means save all you can and avoid lifestyle debt.
I believe that serious preppers have invested so much time and energy into their stupid ideas that it has become a secret fantasy. Next thing you know they will openly cheer for collapse around their friends. They think that they are smart enough to survive. These people really tick me off.
If a nuke or the like goes off, I don't want to survive. Who would want to live in a world of ruin?
Salty Craig
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shall
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2015 00:52
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Agree on the silly subset of prepperdom.
Having a bunker is misspent resources imo.
Having 1 month or 6 months supply of food and a way to filter and purify water is just common sense. Things happen. They happen every day all over the world, including the first world.
It's funny that it's considered prepping for us, but for our grandparents, it was just Thursday
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Salty Craig
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2015 22:33
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shall
Your last sentence is perfect. Thanks for adding that pearl of wisdom.
Salty Craig
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bc thunder
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2015 22:58
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My Grandmother was bombed by the Germans in WWII, and she would have loved a bomb shelter!
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Salty Craig
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# Posted: 29 Jan 2015 08:15
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bc thunder
Well said, but they only work if your in them. I personally will not sit in a bomb shelter because I have this thing going on called life. If the bomb lands on me, I'm a goner. If it plows into the next state, then I will continue to pick sweet corn for supper.
Salty
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