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slim
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# Posted: 3 Feb 2015 13:12
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Can two branch circuits be spliced, with a pigtail going to breaker, in a subpanel?
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old243
Member
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# Posted: 3 Feb 2015 16:11
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Give us a bit more info. Not clear what you mean. old243
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 3 Feb 2015 16:38
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The short answer is, Yes.
There are conditions that must be met. Mostly it is about not overfilling the space in the panel.
A longer answer with the limits is found http://ecmweb.com/nec/code-quiz-67
If you have a typical residential panel and you are only making one splice you are probably okay. The last word belongs to the inspector.
I am curious as to what it is you need to accomplish
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Bzzzzzt
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# Posted: 3 Feb 2015 16:46
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Slim, If the breakers are rated for it (and a lot of residential breakers are) you can land both wires under the lug of one breaker. If you have 2 home runs that are supposed to be one circuit then it is perfectly acceptable to wirenut those together with a pigtail off to the associated breaker.
I am a master electrician, just so ya know.
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slim
Member
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# Posted: 3 Feb 2015 18:47
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Thanks for responses. I have no spaces left in subpanel. There are 4 outlets in detached garage that are on same circuit and go to a 20 amp breaker. I wanted to add a small handy box next to subpanel for another outlet. I was planning on wire nutting the hotwire from the 4 outlets to a hot that would go to handy box, along with a pigtail that would then go to breaker. By the way, the breaker is a Square D Q0. I looked at "conditions" that MtnDon mentioned, and there is sufficient room.
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jackaxe
Member
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# Posted: 4 Feb 2015 10:47 - Edited by: jackaxe
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Put your new outlet black wire to that breaker, instead of a pigtail. You can put two blacks on the same breaker. If I understand what you are saying. Also with a 20 amp breaker, use 12 gauge wire.
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slim
Member
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# Posted: 4 Feb 2015 12:46
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Thanks, jackaxe. I am using #12. What you and Bzzzzzt suggested, two wires to same breaker, will be easier, but more importantly, will avoid a splice.
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Bzzzzzt
Member
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# Posted: 4 Feb 2015 12:51
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I looked up the specs for SQ D QO breakers and they ARE rated for 2 wires under the breaker termination screw. Also, like jack says, 14AWG for 15 amps, 12AWG for 20amps. However, if you're just putting a plug at the panel the 6' tap rule works and you can undersize the wire, but I wouldn't recommend it.
http://www.schneider-electric.com.mx/documents/local/qo.pdf
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slim
Member
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# Posted: 4 Feb 2015 13:22
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Thanks for info on breakers, Bzzzzzt. Sticking with #12.
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2015 10:31 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Quoting: slim Can two branch circuits be spliced, with a pigtail going to breaker, in a subpanel?
Do you mean you want to run another circuit, but have no more space? And legally, you can not have 2 sets of wires under the lug of a breaker, only one, so you want to "Y" it after the breaker?
I suppose if the splice is inside the panel, it might be legal? Not certain, its in a container, its accessible etc. I would remove said breaker, install a mini breaker in its place, then each branch can have its own breaker. The mini breaker will convert a single space int he panel to 2 breakers, ie remove the 15A and replace it with a 15X15. They come is 15X20, 20X20 etc.
I dont know if I understood the question, but this is my answer for what I think you were asking. 
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Bzzzzzt
Member
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2015 11:35 - Edited by: Bzzzzzt
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Toyota: You are not correct about multiple wires under the same terminal of a breaker. Well, you're not totally correct. You are not allowed to have multiple wires terminated on one breaker UNLESS the breaker is designed for the purpose. The newer style QO breakers have a termination plate that allows 2 wires to be terminated. The older "box" style only allow for one. As a master electrician I deal with this issue on a regular basis.
http://www.mikeholt.com/nec-questions-and-answers.php
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slim
Member
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2015 12:06
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First of all, Toyota, you are correct that I was asking about "Y"-ing inside the subpanel.
The SD QO breakers I have are the older box style. So I guess I am back to original question...Can I splice inside a subpanel if the rule on having enough space is complied with???
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old243
Member
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2015 13:49
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Slim , You were planning to install a receptacle beside your panel if I understand it correctly. T o avoid having to make your connection inside the panel and needing to put two wires in the breaker. Why not make your connection in your new handi box. Remove the feed from your 4 recepacles from your panel, go to your new receptacle , then into your panel and unto the breaker. Problem solved. Old 243
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Bzzzzzt
Member
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2015 13:57
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Slim: Just wirenut the two wires together with a pigtail wire and land that one on the breaker. To be honest, you're worried about a whole lot of nothing. Just make sure you have solid connections and you're going to be good.
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jackaxe
Member
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2015 15:17
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I do a lot of service changes. I've seen up to 4 wires to a breaker and all good. That's why I do a service change because everything is maxed out. Some people remodel a room at a time and have very low amp draw on one circuit/ breaker. So doubling up two on a low amp circuit is ok.
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Bzzzzzt
Member
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2015 16:56
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I agree with you Jack but the NEC doesn't. Honestly, I don't see an issue with putting multiple wires under a breaker as long as you make sure they are all secured and cannot come loose. I understand where they're coming from on this issue, though.
Not so much in residential, but more in commercial, you may have a mix of stranded and solid conductors and putting a stranded wire and a solid wire under one terminal may not make a good tight connection and cause problems over time. In residential panels. 99.9% of the wires are solid conductors (less than 8AWG) and will hold just fine doubled up even though the breaker may not be specifically designed for the purpose.
I still stand by my assertion that putting them both under one breaker would be perfectly OK as long as they're secure or wirenutting and putting a pigtail to one breaker gets the job done just as well and is more in compliance with the NEC. The main purpose is to not cause an overload condition that may heat up over time and cause a fire, but I think adding one receptacle is going to add such a small load as to not cause any sort of trouble with either type of connection.
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