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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 7 Feb 2015 17:14
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The timing for my move is starting to get worrisome for me. I may need to have major surgery in the coming weeks, which means I won't get to Oregon and start the process on my land until late Spring/early summer. And that's the time when my chosen builder is at his busiest. It is quite likely that he won't be able to build my cabin until late fall/winter.
So, I've had to look for a Plan B. With my health stuff, it's not a good idea for me to spend 6 months in an RV waiting to build a cabin, in a place unfamiliar to me. And there aren't any apartments to rent close to my land.
I'm thinking that this is Plan B. It's the size that I want, it doesn't appear that it would take a whole lot of reworking to meet codes with a good foundation and the plates required for earthquakes (I believe it already has "hurricane straps" included), and it could be put up fairly quickly. I love the second floor and the fact that it has real steps. But I need your expert opinions! I planned on doing a metal roof.
Also, how would one do a chimney for the woodstove through a roof like this?
Here's the link:
http://www.barnkits.com/product/Richmond.php
Thanks in advance!
Julie
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 7 Feb 2015 18:10
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Julie, I suspect the walls are just 2X4 studs, those are items that you will need to adjust in the initial build to meet code. They will require proper insulation as long as its a heated space. And you know it will be. Maybe ask them if they have a live in version, where the codes will be met for habitation.
Otherwise, I am not sure. If it passes, it will be up to you and you might have to do lots of work over again. Have you considered another floor plan that suits you from the same place I got mine (same company of those I sent you, they have lots of different square footage designs) and then you can apply for the permit yourself and be the contractor and just coordinate the work and subs such as foundation, electrical, plumbing etc. You will have plenty of time to nibble on it. But be nice to have a dried in shell while its dry out. The interior work can be done in the cooler weather/fall winter once you have walls, windows and a water tight roof.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 7 Feb 2015 18:11
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Those site built roof trusses may not pass code. Factory built trusses come with a stamped / certified engineers approval for being suitable for the task. There is no control over the site built as to workmanship so the building permit office may not accept them no matter what the seller states. Sold as a shed or barn they could be okay but once the building gets classed as habitable many rules change. The pretty pictures showing one as a residence doesn't mean anything.
The specs note a snow load of 30 PSF... there are areas of OR that are higher than that. A factory built truss would be designed for the specific area. See here for OR snow load information. Or go here.
Best thing would be to ask the AHJ in OR. (the building permit office, authority having jurisdiction)
Chances are you can get some factory built engineered trusses that would do the job. Chances are they will not provide the same upstairs usable space.
Speaking of the roof, one of the problems with a gambrel roof like that is how to insulate it sufficiently. See here for energy code recommendations. Even with the best spray foam filling the 2x6 bays that would need something extra. Extra insulation could be rigid foam sheets on top of the roof sheathing or on the inside under the rafters.
The walls are using 2x4 studs. While that is structurally sound and meets code, the 2x4 wall thickness with common fiberglass will not meet energy code. Spray in foam can work, as can fiberglass R13 plus a layer of 1" R5 foam over the outside. The IECC link above also has wall and floor info.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 7 Feb 2015 19:34
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The trusses are engineered. There is documentation for building permits on that with the engineer's stamp on the "More Info" tab on the website, along with the IBC codes met. The snow load requirement for Klamath County is 20 pounds per foot so I'd be fine there.
Yeah, I'm chewing on this. There are pros and cons. I love the cabin plans you sent me, Toyota. It will just take some modification for a proper staircase and such. Perhaps 10-foot walls to allow for more headroom in the loft, as well. I didn't see another cabin at the site with a loft that I could do and modify within budget.
It's tough living so far away and doing this on my own. I don't want to sell my Texas home, only to end up blowing a bunch of that money on living expenses in Oregon while waiting to build. It would never get done. Seriously.
So I've got to find solutions. With any luck, my preferred builder WON'T be especially busy this summer and can do my cabin. But I need to have a viable Plan B ready to go, too. With oil prices tumbling, the area I live in now will go into a slump. I need to sell my house while the market is still decent. But for health reasons, too, I need to get out of this wretched climate. The Texas heat has been killing me.
Anyhoo, my plan is to come up and talk to contractors, get estimates. The site eval and septic testing have to be done and I need to speak with masonry dudes (and/or dudettes) about the foundation.
Thanks for the links, MtnDon! I need to bone up on insulation! I was looking previously at the insulation sheets with the moisture backing on them. Would that take the place of a vapor barrier or do you still need that, too?
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 7 Feb 2015 19:57
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Probably not what you want to hear but....Building is stressful. I would take care of my health first before starting a build. Spend the time in your healing process to tweak your plans.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 7 Feb 2015 20:31
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I saw the PDF document and the stamps. The local AHJ has the last word though and I would still check with them before laying down any money or basing my build on this. One reason is that engineers are licensed on a state basis. I am almost certain that when Oregon demands documentation to be stamped by an architect or an engineer they require that the architect or engineer be licensed in the state of Oregon. Almost certain; the only way to know is to ask the AHJ in Oregon.
Vapor barrier use/necessity varies with climate. That and insulation is a big subject unto themselves. Building Science Corp has some of the best information on many aspects of building and energy, including barriers and insulation. Best bet is to spend some time learning with specific information regarding Oregon. Much of what you may know about building in Texas is wrong for places like Oregon.
Building Science
Insulation/vapor barrier mfg assoc
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SandyR
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# Posted: 7 Feb 2015 20:53
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I have to agree with Silverwaterlady. We had plans to build our cabin late August or early September if last year. I got really sick with many things. One of the things that I had was Lyme disease. We went ahead with our build and it was really hard on my husband with being on the land with the builders ( the Amish ) and worrying about me going back in the hospital.
I would seriously work on repairing your health before starting your cabin.
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hattie
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# Posted: 7 Feb 2015 22:40
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I think you should wait until you are well before tackling a big project like this. By waiting, you will be sure to build exactly what you want rather than settling for a quick build. You can use your recovery time to plan and design what you really want.
Good luck with your health issues!!! Keep us posted how you are doing!!
{{hugs}}
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2015 03:36
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MtnDon,
What's an "AHJ?" I know nothing about building in Texas so it's all good.  This is my first experience with building from scratch!
The County website that an Oregon engineering seal is required for prefab engineered metal buildings. No other references in that regard. I will make sure that I ask about wood buildings specifically!
Ladies, I appreciate the good wishes! Yes, I need to have the surgery and heal before I move. But one of the reasons I am moving to the PNW is that the Texas heat is shortening my life. I have Systemic Lupus and the wretched, long summers of nearly 100 and 100+ degree days make my disease attack my body even more. For some reason, Lupus makes one photosensitive and the oppressive heat triggers my disease activity terribly.
It's not a question of getting well. My disease is incurable. It's actually become the need to make some big changes to stay alive. I'm not exaggerating. In the past 4 years, I've needed 8 major joint and heart surgeries. This next tumor surgery will be the ninth. My doctors entirely support and encourage my move to a different climate, and my internal medicine doctor has been in the loop on my specific plans.
So this buttercup just has to suck it up -- and go! Nothing is easy, and nothing is ideal. But I guarantee you one thing -- there is nothing worse than spending much of your life in between the hospital and your air-conditioned home because your disease won't let you do much else in a hot climate.
it does make my situation different than many others here, though. I don't have the luxury of time and I'm not within a commute to my land to work on things part-time. I can't "rough it" for an extended period of time.
Sorry, I don't mean to make this personal and all about my health but I don't want to come across as reckless and impatient, either. I have to build/move in the most efficient and cost-effective manner as possible because my health situation has been declining. The only hope I DO have to improve is to move out of the heat and make positive lifestyle changes, such as being able to walk outdoors and live in a healthier, peaceful environment.
The two big pluses with this Plan B are that a real staircase is designed for the building, which is important in my situation, and that the second floor accommodates my full height throughout.
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Nirky
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2015 06:08
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AHJ= authorities having jurisdiction
It's just another way to say health department, building & planning department, etc. Authorities who enforce code.
http://www.klamathcounty.org/depts/cdd/building/code-design-criteria.asp
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PA_Bound
Member
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2015 08:42
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Julie... If you decide to go this route, before you buy this from one of the "home center"-type stores check around the local Oregon area where you are planning to build and see if there is a local business that builds and sells something similar. I purchased a pre-built shed that I am converting into a cabin, from a local shed company. One option the local company offered was a version of my shed that was built to ICC and local codes. I ended up not needing this version, but the home center stores I looked at did not offer this. Also, because I was working with the actual local builder I got some modifications, accessories and site-prep services included in the deal that home center stores are not going to offer.
Just a thought...
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Salty Craig
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2015 09:00
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Julie, I would consider this: if moving is mandatory with summer right around the corner, purchase and have delivered a smaller building. Say maybe a 10x14 or so. Basically something under the permit requirements. That will give you quick, cheap shelter while you get your ducks and health in a row. After your real cabin is built, your squatters shack can become a fantastic storage and garden shed. Your situation is unique and I wish you all the best.
Salty Craig
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bc thunder
Member
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2015 12:18
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Who's your second choice as a builder?
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hattie
Member
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2015 12:35
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Have you considered something that is all on one level with no stairs? Given your medical problems, that might be a better option for you.
Have you considered a modular or factory built home? Maybe something like this: http://www.cascadefactoryhomes.com/park-models.html
They are more expensive, however, they would already have all the insulation, etc. that you would have to add to just a shell. In the long run they may be less expensive since they are all complete. Just a thought.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2015 12:47
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Quoting: Julie2Oregon Yeah, I'm chewing on this. There are pros and cons. I love the cabin plans you sent me, Toyota. It will just take some modification for a proper staircase and such. Perhaps 10-foot walls to allow for more headroom in the loft, as well. I didn't see another cabin at the site with a loft that I could do and modify within budget.
Julie, with some "white out" you can make adjustments. As for headroom up in the loft, you could make the dormer longer on each side (multiple windows) and add another dormer on the other side (drawing only shows it on one side). That would give you plenty of headroom inside the window dormer (shed type) area and I would add a window at the gable ends also. Those plans will pass inspection. Make a photo copy of the plans and white out and pencil in changes. Then submit them to the building dept for review. It will pass, they will OK them. But it also shows plywood sheeting and lap siding. I used T1-11, so if you make any change like I did, make a note and adjust the drawings before you submit them. Show the staircase vs the ladder, move a window if its in the way of the stairs etc.
Yes, you dont want to end up with no home, run out of money before the project is completed and almost homeless. How about an RV cover with a slab under it, then live in an RV under the cover (important to have a cover as heavy wet snows will collapse most RV's). After the home is finished, you could sell the RV, then convert the covered area to a shop or detached garage by adding walls and a garage door. Just make sure its in a suitable location is relation to the house. Close enough to add a breezeway between the two structures etc for a nice setting area, BBQing outdoors, watching sunsets etc.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2015 13:15 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Julie, I think I have your answer. How about a "Park Model" cabin? As long as these are under 480 sq feet, its classified as an RV and therefor, no taxes on it and no permit. Buy new, many include delivery/set up. You would do a "pit set" (this keep it low to the ground) and a footer around it, set it up on concrete, then have a cinder block brick stem wall to close in the underside, then back fill, so you only see the top 12" of the stem wall. This is not a load bearing wall. But would look like the house is setting on it. These RV's that look like little cabins are called "Park Models" and they have them that look like small cabins, not an RV. But there is also versions that are trailers. Avoid those.
There is plenty of builders who build these right in Oregon. Get them with or without loft bedrooms. With your joints, I would avoid the loft, but its up to you. They are all finished inside, appliances etc, you just add furniture and you own decorations and you are done. Request extra overhang or eaves for harsher weather.
http://www.cedaridgeindustries.com/Pages/ParkModelRV.aspx
http://parkmodels.com/cabins/ (made in Oregon)
Look at: https://www.parkmodelsdirect.com/WD/photos.asp
Or just use Park Models Oregon in a search engine. Because its classified as an RV, you dont even need the septic permit or well in place before setting it up. But would want to add that in before living in it permanently of course. The mnost you will spend is under $50K
A few photos of "Park Models"
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Littlecooner
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2015 14:30
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Julie, wow, take care of the health. In your situation, I think I would do the "park model" route. most of these are around 400 sq ft (10x40) in size in my neck of the woods, by other manufactures. They are very nice and you can just move in. would solve the ability to relocate away from this humidity in the south and solve building problems. Hope the operation goes ok.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2015 19:09
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THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!! So many good options for Plan B that I can now explore!!! You guys are the best!!!!
bcthunder, I don't have a second choice for builder and that's what has been concerning me. My first choice is awesome. However, it's a small, family-owned-and-operated company that builds everything by hand, down to harvesting the timber from their own trees and milling their own boards! That's what makes them totally affordable and awesome with superb quality but it also means that they can't do a lot of projects at once. The contractor told me that they're very busy in the summer and it would be best to book them to do my cabin at another time of year. Hence, my need for a Plan B, even though we have thoroughly discussed the cabin and he's given me a quote. I haven't been able to give him the deposit and exact building time yet with so much happening on my end.
I'm taking a huge leap because I simply have to do that and I know it will work out in the end but I need contingency plans. Well-considered and researched ones.
A one-floor cabin does make a whole lot of sense and was my initial plan until I started considering that this will be my home full-time for the rest of my life and I've never lived in such small square-footage. A really usable loft would double my living space, help alleviate "cabin fever" during long stretches of bad weather, allow me to have friends from out-of-state visit (because they are excited and want to, and there are no motels nearby), etc. I plan to have a futon or daybed serving as a couch downstairs for the times when I don't feel like going upstairs to sleep.
The only way it is do-able is if the loft space affords a lot of headroom and is thoroughly usable, that I could perhaps install a second mini-bathroom with a waterless, powerless incinerating toilet up there in the future, and have a proper staircase to the second floor. No mini, steep stairs and, heaven forbid, no ladder! I'd also like to have a bit for a computer desk so I can write up there. I was a teacher and writer before I got sick.
Otherwise, yes, my cabin will be one story, with perhaps part of the loft containing flooring so I can use the section for storage. My builder and I had discussed that.
After I bought my land, I was looking for small homes and such and took a look at a "park model" manufactured home. Didn't like it. Plus, they're really designed to be hooked up to a park or city septic system and standard electricity, not for living off-the-grid. So, I crossed that off my list of possibilities immediately.
This "park cabin" is interesting, though, Toyota. I will look into it!
As well as all of these other suggestions!!!! THANK YOU, once again!!! Any more ideas, keep them coming!!!!
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Nirky
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2015 19:33
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Quoting: Julie2Oregon I'd also like to have a bit for a computer desk so I can write up there.
Have you considered going instead with a laptop? Saves space, your sofa or bed becomes your desk, so to speak.
Quoting: Julie2Oregon Plus, they're really designed to be hooked up to a park or city septic system
Your public health department doesn't require a septic system for your greywater (shower, kitchen, etc)? That would be very good if they didn't.
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Don_P
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2015 20:58
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A slab foundation, walls and attic trusses builds alot of house quick. The attic trusses can be designed for dormers that would allow stairs and a bath.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2015 21:21
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Nirky,
Yes, I have a laptop but I need a writing space. I jot down phrases, descriptions, characterizations, outlines, etc. via old-fashioned pen and paper. Typing is a much-later phase.
Yes, I do need a septic system. But the park model mobile homes are preconfigured with plugs and such for connection to conventional means, not to septic tank systems. I'd need to retrofit. That was according to the salesman, anyway. Maybe he got it wrong? I dunno.
I am starting to lean toward a slap foundation and forgoing my desire for a crawl space. It would be faster. But I do have to verify that a cement truck will be able to get up to my property. And I need to do that pronto. I may be constrained in that regard and have to find out.
I have a lead! PA Bound and Salty Craig raised some interesting points so I Googled for shed builders in that area and found one in Medford that has been in business a long time, includes onsite building free as a matter of course, builds all sorts of buildings and is committed to sustainable living, green building, and even employing passive solar and wind in design to help in heating, cooling and light!
They are licensed contractors, build to suit and design according to use and need. They will prepare plans for the building department for an additional fee. I am going to give them a call on Monday.
What's cool is that they state they are very open to using reclaimed materials so they are willing to use good used windows, doors, and other things that the customer has or bought used in building the structure to save on costs. Yay!
This is definitely worth an inquiry, and I wouldn't have thought of it without all of your assistance! 
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2015 22:47
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If you can get a cement truck in there (and I bet you can, you have a drier climate based on the vegetation I seen, but before fall and after spring) then you can get a bobcat skidsteer in there to do the "dig out" for a full footing/stem wall. Then you will still have storage, access to plumbing and drains. My dig out was done on a Saturday, foundation guy set up all the forms and rebar Sunday, inspector came out monday 8AM, concrete poured shortly thereafter. Forms off Monday eve. It was done in a single pour. So Sat to Monday eve, it was done.
The slab would work, but you'd have to have all your drains and plumbing all in place when the slab is poured.
I think the local green sustainable guy sounds like a good deal. The permit and foundation can start right away without your presence. But it would be nice to be there to mark the corners, and how its oriented. Have large windows facing SW for max heat in winter. Enough overhang to shade you in the summer, but allow sun in during the winter (sun lower in horizon, ie heat in winter, cooler in summer)
Keep us posted Julie. It will get exciting once under way.
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BadgersHollow
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2015 00:20
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Medford is about 2.5 hours from Bly/Bonanza. If they go out that far free, that's awesome. I'm 2 hours from medford, post details as you go and they may get some business from me this fall.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2015 01:49
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Toyota,
I'm at about 4,500 elevation so it's the slope of the gravel roads that make me wonder if a cement truck will be able to get to me. The guy I bought the land from gave me the name of a friend of his who lives just down the road from me. He pays him to help out, show land, etc. I need to call and ask him about that since I have no idea about cement-truck maneuvering!
I also need to hire a plumbing contractor there to do the schematics and advise. I spoke with the on site coordinator for the DEQ in Salem last week and I HAVE to go through the whole test pit, perk testing process even though I had developed a solid plan for an alternative system, drat it.
The land isn't going to fail. The only way I can do my alternative system is if it fails the perk. And the guy I bought my land from said he hasn't had a parcel fail. Ever, in two decades. In fact, if the land would fail, he has a policy of transferring the equity/sale to another parcel of land that the purchaser chooses.
Sooooo, I will have to do a freaking septic tank system, and if I'm going to do that, then I'm going to use the dang thing, heh. Traditional low-flow toilet and no official greywater system. I can reuse greywater on my own from the sinks, actually, without installing a system and dealing with the government.
The plumbing contractor can deal with that aspect and the foundation if I can't be on site. I would prefer to be, though.
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Nirky
Member
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2015 02:12
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FWIW, plumbing is pretty easy, did my own septic piping for my house, will do the same when do the cabin. Went with PEX for water. Not hard. Learned all I needed by watching a multitude of YouTube videos. Can always hire a teenager cheap and direct him/her to be your hands. I got helpers from Craigslist, the first two didn't work, but the third guy was excellent, and so was his brother.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2015 02:26
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BadgersHollow,
They're in Central Point, near Highway 140. They go by miles and provide 35 miles each way free. After 35 miles, it says they charge a "minimal mileage charge." I don't know how many miles away from there I am but my land is right off 140 near Dairy.
I'm sure they would charge me for construction since I'd be doing a custom project, wider than standard. But they would still have the materials cut and ready to build. The foundation would already be in, inspected, and ready to build on. Perhaps the pipes, too, depending on which way I go with the foundation.
At the Klamath County website, it says if you call the office and leave a message for the inspectors before 7 a.m., they can send an inspector out the same day. That's actually pretty cool. One of the reviews said this company built their 12X16X8 building in 7 hours because they were totally prepared and professional. So, if I'm on top of my game with everything, and the inspection thing goes as the county says, the shell, plumbing/bathroom, insulation, wood stove, and basic electrical could be done in maybe three or four days?
I can work on the interior -- the fun part, from my point of view -- at my leisure.
Here's a house they did, from their projects gallery. Far more than I need but I was impressed.
635420Chalmet20Pre.jpg
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635420Chalmet20Pre.jpg
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2015 02:38
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Nirky,
I need a plumbing contractor to at least do the design, I think, so I can have someone with a license sign the papers, lol. I don't *think* they have to be there for the inspection, do they? The county website says the permit and forms have to be displayed and accessible and they need access to the site. Doesn't say people have to be there. They have an automated phone and computerized system so you can check the status of permits and inspections.
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 11 Feb 2015 14:08
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Julie, there is 2 people that can do electrical, plumbing and building. A licensed contractor or the land/homeowner.
So you pull the permit, then have your freind do it, then have it inspected. You can be like the general contractor. That is what I did, I just didnt sub out anything except foundation and metal on the roof. Rest, did myself.
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tichalet
Member
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# Posted: 19 Feb 2015 23:47 - Edited by: tichalet
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Julie, I'm late to this discussion. And I know you said you had misgivings about Park Models based on the example you'd seen. But as others have mentioned, there really is a wide variety in the category.
Although it lacks a loft, the one that came immediately to mind as I read your post was this one from Escape designed by Kelly Davis formerly a Principal with nationally prominent SALA Architects in Minneapolis & manufactured in Wisconsin, I believe.
They will transport anywhere in North America and will also build it as a non-RV prefab to be permanently tied-in to a foundation, but alas they're probably too far away to be economical for you (it'd be worth investigating though.) Unfortunately, they don't sell just the plans either, drat!
The particular model pictured on the front page & on their visual tour - and the one I think is the nicest - is their original plan designed by Davis the "Classic" which has an alternative floor plan with a second entry to the bath (useful if/when you have guests bunking on the sofabed in the Living Rm).
With double french door front entry from the enclosable porch (great place for a writing desk!), a double sliding door entry to the bath, a galley kitchen etc, I'd think that the Classic plan has the benefit of being very easy to adapt for full wheelchair access if ever you have another surgery or a setback with the Lupus & are temporarily confined to one. And of course it's got that long gorgeous wall of windows to the view of your land.
Anyway, I thought it might be helpful for you to see just one more example of the variety of what's available out there & maybe something in this one might come in handy for showing ideas to a builder. There are more wonderful pictures of this model floating around the internet that are no longer on the mfr.'s site but can be found by googling images of the Escape cabin. (It was published widely on architecture & design sites a few years back.)
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tichalet
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# Posted: 20 Feb 2015 00:05
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Hmm. I see that one of the links Toyota gave you (Cavco, manufactured in Oregon) offers a universal access design here.. I'm sure they'd be much more budget friendly than the Escape & it's worth a look for ideas to give to your builder.
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