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lpet
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2015 19:54 - Edited by: lpet
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(Edit: ADDED PHOTOS BELOW)
So I'm looking at this property, it's about three hours from Toronto (where I live). Asking price is 60k but I'm hoping to get it for 50k - if I can get approval for the mortgage. I might be going to see the property this weekend so keep in mind the description and photos are all I have to go by.
It's 8 acres in Ontario, with a very small cabin on it (don't know dimensions yet). The ground is nice and flat, except for one small hill where the previous owners have already installed septic when they intended on building a larger cabin there. I'd just keep it as one little cabin or perhaps have a slightly larger one built in a few years.
Things to keep in mind: I'm terrible at building things, especially for a 24 year old guy I'm not handy at all. Even with help, I doubt I'd be able to do a half decent job of building anything if I were to buy a vacant lot. I want a cabin to do some hunting and fishing from, and there's both to be found in the area.
More importantly to the folks who know a little more about it, does this cabin/bunkie look like it'll last another 10 or so years? I just don't want to buy it only for it to start falling apart two winters from now.
I know it's not much to go by and I haven't provided the specific township because the listing was hard to find, but I'm wondering if you guys have any opinions on 1) The property, 2) the price, and 3) the cabin itself.
Thanks!
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lpet
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2015 19:57 - Edited by: lpet
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This last photo is of the clearing on the hill, where they've installed septic (that I may never do anything with). Maybe grow veggies or build a larger cabin one day.
Specifically about the existing cabin, I'm hoping you guys can see enough of it to gauge how long I can hope for it to last. I'd use it three seasons and hope it seems sturdy enough to last years. I think that looks like brick towards the back of the bunkie, but mostly wood on the front.
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Wilbour
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2015 20:04
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About the mortgage, I think you will only get one if the value of the land is worth the asking price. I don't think you will get any value added for the cabin. 3 hours north of Toronto would seem popular for many people. If it's what you want it may be just the ticket
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creeky
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2015 20:09
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was this written in 1985?
no links. no photos. lpet. what comes out of the back of a male cow?
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lpet
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2015 20:31
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Sorry creeky I deleted the photos afterwards, didn't want someone buying the property. I realise this was rather paranoid of me.
You'll find them attached, sorry.
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lpet
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2015 20:32
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Wilbour I think the real estate appraisal was very cheap, like 26k or so. Property taxes were $150 last year. But I've read the appraisal price and what properties sell for in an area can vary.
Thoughts on the cabin?
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Nirky
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2015 20:46
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Cabin looks like it's in good enough condition for someone to visit regularly. Size?
Wired for AC, is it on the grid then?
Well, spring, community water, or haul in water?
Septic already installed, that's a big plus.
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lpet
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2015 20:59
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Thanks for the reply Nirky. I'm not sure about the size but it is quite small. The water is haul in. I also see power outlets in the photos, but I'm not sure if it's on the grid. I'd be inclined to think they've used a generator in the past though.
The septic being installed would definitely be a plus if I were to build there one day.
Does this thing look like it'll withstand years of occasional use?
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Just
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2015 21:00
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access by public year round road ? if so, sounds good to me , nice looking spot ,ready to enjoy .
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lpet
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2015 21:01 - Edited by: lpet
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Yeah! Year round road. Not sure how winterized the bunkie is but I'd definitely use it three seasons at least.
Can I expect this cabin to last for a while yet? Also if anybody has an opinion on the price (60k for 8 acres w/ cabin, 3 hours from Toronto) I'd appreciate it.
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creeky
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2015 21:12 - Edited by: creeky
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edit: bit grumpy tonight. assuming all is fair. if this is 3 hrs north of t.o. buy it now. the price is missing an integer at the front.
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lpet
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2015 21:30
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Creeky, that's fine as long as you're doubting the listing and not that I'm being honest. Are you sure it's such a good deal? It's basically a vacant plot of land, albeit a sizeable one... the cabin shouldn't really raise the value since it's basically a bunkie.
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neb
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2015 21:38
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Looks very nice to me! I would go for it I really don't think that is a bad price at all. Keep us posted.
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lpet
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2015 21:42
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Thanks Neb, I appreciate it. I'm really hoping to go see it this weekend - the realtor is available, I just have to make sure I have the time. I hope it's as pretty as it seems.
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Just
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2015 21:47
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We need OLD 243 to chime in here that's his country.
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bc thunder
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2015 21:59
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I know that area fairly well. It's beautiful up there.
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lpet
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2015 22:12
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Thanks guys, I appreciate all the replies. Does the cabin look like it'll last for years to come? I'm hoping to get upwards of a decade of use out of it.
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bc thunder
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2015 22:17
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no way to tell for sure from a few pics, but it doesn't look like its falling down.
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bc thunder
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2015 22:21
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price some land there without a cabin, and think about putting a trailer on it.
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Ontario lakeside
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2015 23:09
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The price is not that low if its not on a lake or river. Cabin looks to be in good condition but have a good look this weekend. Don't forget to consider what may be hidden by snow!!
good luck
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Pookie129
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2015 00:08 - Edited by: Pookie129
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Ipet, unfortunately no one will be able to tell you definitively without accurate info or from just looking at some photos, and if you haven't seen it yourself then there is no way to really tell and you are taking a gamble. Trust me, I looked for almost 4 years before finding an appropriate property and had to look at many lemons (and I am being kind).
However, I agree with Creeky, if you are 3 hours and are north - north east well they aren't making more land, especially in an area that is 50 - 75% crown land, at 50 - 60k for 8 usable acres with a usable cabin, which you indicated you aren't a good builder, is ready to go, is a fairly decent price (again going by info available and limited photos).
Comparing what I paid, that is competitive - however, I was lucky and didn't need to use a mortgage and deal with the problems an alternative living structure can create in terms of financing options.
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FishHog
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2015 08:27
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having been cabin shopping for a number of years in Ontario, I have some input. Could be a fantastic price or just reasonable depending on a few things. What area in general. 3hrs from TO leave a lot of area open, and prices change a lot. What is around you? If not on a waterway, (which I doubt it is at that price), its not a great deal, but not bad either. Most cottagers want water available. No water will make a resale harder. Land available to hunt on near by? Again, hunt camps can get pricey if there is crown land around. But if not, limits the resale value to hunters also.
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old243
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2015 09:53
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lpet, The cabin without seeing it appears to be well kept. Someone has done a bit of work on it inside , very nice . The septic system is a plus, they can be expensive . You have to remember that all buildings need maintenance on a regular basis , whether you do it yourself , or hire it done. With 8 or ten acres , you have a nice sized lot . unless it has crown land around it you will not be able to hunt and fish , without permission, as a lot of the land is probably private, around it. It depends how good a neighbor, you are , if they will give you permission, country folk are funny that way.
I would think that 60k ,is not overpriced, with mortgage rates fairly low , just now . You might also see if owner, would be interested in carrying your mortgage.
One other thought, the cabin appears to be on skids , you might move it quite easily , beside the septic bed. If you wanted to.
Keep us posted, as you go along old243
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Just
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2015 10:15
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Quoting: lpet see the property this weekend
Take your boots lots of snow up there , was there recently
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Wilbour
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2015 10:20 - Edited by: Wilbour
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Ipet, you gave me the challenge and I found the listing. 
I like the area and it's within the 3 hours from Your home. Must be wired for generator as I cannot see power lines on the road. I would guess it's fairly priced and if you could get it for $50k that would be great!
As for your handyman abilities, we all started somewhere.
Edit: On further inspection there is power on the road. Still would doubt the cabin is wired beyond a genny
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2015 10:33
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Having just spent a year (2014) of extremely active looking for land in Ontario to suit my needs, I've seen a lot of properties. I can tell you that I drove over 25,000 kms in 2014 to physically visit properties. I think that qualifies as serious enough.
8 acres of land @ 60K or 7500 an acres is a touch high. But due to proximity to Toronto and the popularity of the area it's certainly in the right ball park, if not on the low side actually.
The Septic System is worth at least 10K and you can use it for grey-water as well as black water but don't let it just sit, that can cause damage if too long. Was it used or not and how is it sealed / capped.
No well... There is an expense that can run up quite a bit... Have a look at the neighbours wells to see what the average depth is. That will give you a general idea of how deep you may have to go... note that it's no guarantee as to how deep you will have to go. See the Ontario Well Map database and drop the address in there or one of the neighbours and then zoom in to see specs on the different wells around the area. Drilling is around $30-$40 a foot + $15 or so for casing which is required. Casing must extend 2' above grade and 9-10 feet into bedrock (pending on rock).
Mortgaging an "un-serviced" property can be tricky depending on institution & down payment. 5 or 10% likely won't go over so well... Lenders are becoming very picky and problematic for "non-mainstream" properties lately.
The Cabin looks pretty nice from the pics you posted. It certainly looks like it's wired for power but I could not see a power line running to it... Underground line ? Generator ? Solar ?? IF there is Hydro running to it, that's a BIG dollar saving as OPG & Hydro One have gone somewhat mental on costing to run power up to a property... and they try to make the runs as long as they can, to generate more bucks for their company.
I'd suggest getting a good look at the cabin and ask for as much info as they can provide. Look under the cabin to see how it is set on the ground... Take Pictures !!! From the one photo, it appear to be set on piers BUT that could just be the deck. Look to see if the floor is enclosed underneath or not, if you see insulation & what type it is, can you see pipes, lines, wires running to/from cabin ? Take photo's of the Power Panel, metres or external connections / plugs etc... Usually a generator will use an RV plug which would look something like this here: RV Plug w/ Breaker These vary a bit depending on application.
You say you haven't got the experience to build things... @ 24 yrs old, you got a heap of time to learn yet, it's never too late. When you got your own place to "tinker" on things for the fun of it, you start getting the skills.
I would highly recommend that you "walk the property" and look at the lay of the land. The snow is a major problem right now as you know but you should look at what's there and try to get around the perimeter if possible. What would you do if 6 acres was Bog/Marsh/Swamp ? If 1/2 of it is unusable then your paying 60K for 4 useable acres. Look for low spots, lot's of dead standing trees, unexplained open areas on the property etc... these are all potential indicators of things below the snow. You know, you can take a shovel and dig little holes in the snow to verify if your standing on ice, soil etc... Your not digging into the land, just clearing a bit of snow to see underneath. **
** If the agent / owner refuse you to clear a bit of snow in selected areas to see what's underneath... be suspicious, VERY suspicious. Sorry to say this but accept nothing on face value, especially when the land is covered in snow ! In real estate the rule of Buyer Beware cannot be understated.
Like Pookie said, there are many lemons out there and I've sadly seen a lot of them as well... hence the mileage I did last year on our hunt for land.
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LoonWhisperer
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2015 11:56
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Lots of good advice here.
Time for my 2 cents based on what I see. We bought 2.5 hours north of Toronto. The lot is just under 11 acres with a large pond, long driveway and small cabin (or bunkie would be more accurate).
We paid considerably less but... your cabin looks much nicer and definitely bigger. Plus we have no septic system on our property.
So IMO, if you can wrestle the price down to what you suggested I think that is reasonable all things considered.
Not sure the exact area but you may be close enough to attend our first Small Cabin BBQ that Pookie129 has graciously volunteered to host (hehehe)
Best of luck and please update us.
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leonk
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2015 15:10
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what a post from Steve 
I've been passively (very) looking north of Toronto for years.
I am still puzzled by the prices.
I was looking at vacant 50 ac just north of Huntsville (so less than 3 h) on 3 season road (few hundred yards from 4 season plowed section) for 50K. Larger half decent lots go for 1k/acre. That's what I heard. Smaller lots are a lot different.
The bunky looks ok from the pics.
Good luck. I wish I could buy hunting property at 24
Depending on the area hunting could be tough. Hunting pressure is really growing in ON.
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project_north
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2015 15:54
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I made an offer on my property in winter and my agent wisely advised me to make the offer conditional upon spring inspection so I could determine condition of shoreline, rocks / marsh etc. Might be a wise move if you're serious about the place. The 60k seems like a pretty good price for land with a small cabin depending on where it's located, access to roads, waterways etc.
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Pookie129
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2015 17:18
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Quoting: project_north my agent wisely advised me to make the offer conditional upon spring inspection so I could determine condition of shoreline, rocks / marsh etc
Awesome tip and advice if possible....
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