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chrisser
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# Posted: 2 Jul 2015 11:17
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The cabin/cottage we bought is 20x20. Half (around 11' 3" x 20' ) will be a living room/kitchen.
The other half (around 9' 5" x 20') will be bed/bath/laundry.
Trying to lay everything out before construction and every extra inch helps.
So I'm curious about what would be a practical minimum size for a doorway (without a door - I guess it would be called an entryway)? How thin can I practically make dividing walls (we plan on using drywall inside)? What's the minimum practical space between a bed and a wall? Minimum width of a room with just a toilet?
We're both reasonably fit and not too tall, and I don't plan on building this for our retirement years - the next owner can reconfigure it how they wish. It's just the two of us and a dog. But we'll be in it for the next 3-5 years, including several winters. While the living/kitchen area will be very open, I don't want the other half to be too cramped, but I also need to fit a lot of stuff in there.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 2 Jul 2015 13:02
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Typically doorways are 30" or 32" with pocket doors providing a bit more clearance thanks to lack of hinges. Also saves having to provide "swing space". Alternatively you can use a sliding barn door if you want to make panel walls (these can be tricky but much thinner if needed but won't support much at all). NOTE that @ 30" getting some furnishings through can be a chore.
Bathrooms (proper) are typically 5'x8'. 5' being the length of a conventional bathtub. Toilet space is typically 33-36" width by 60" length allowing for a person to stand up, move about a bit ;) (don't want it so small you have to step out to turn around).
Interior walls non-supporting can be 2x3 or 2x4 construction. 16oc if using 1/2" Drywall is suggested, 24oc if there is nailers @ 4'. The new Lightweight Drywall works well BUT remember to use Green DW for wet/damp areas like around tub/shower etc under your finish.
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chrisser
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# Posted: 2 Jul 2015 13:45
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Thanks. It's been an interesting challenge fitting everything so far. Couple of inches here and there could make a big difference. So could some subtle layout alterations.
I had planned on a 36x36 shower stall, but the 32 ones are looking better all the time and I wouldn't have to cut a hole in the side to get it in (I have a 32" front door).
Most of my interior doorways won't have doors, but I hadn't considered a pocket door. Might be nice to close off the bed area when one of us has to get up earlier than the other...
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 2 Jul 2015 14:15
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The 32" square shower stalls meet minimum code requirements and are just big enough for one person to shower. You can tighten the toilet space a bit from what was given above. The finished distance between side walls at a toilet should be no less than 30", and you should have 24" minimum in front of the toilet itself. Toilets vary in their length, so if you get the shortest round bowl toilet you can find and add 24" to that, there is your minimum space.
You can turn the studs sideways to make your walls thinner, so long as they are not structural walls. Pocket doors are great space savers but take planning and are more work to instal, not a big deal.
Always maintain a 36" wide path of travel to the front door inside the house, and use a 36" wide front door which results in a 32" wide clear width when open, a minimum safety issue in the building code for the front door only. Never key the front door from the inside. Users have to be able to get out in a fire without a key.
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chrisser
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# Posted: 2 Jul 2015 14:26
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Right now the place has a 32" front door. Considering widening it to 36", but we don't have inspections here or code enforcement, although I like to comply when I can, and it helps getting appliances in and out.
I've been living in a 16' travel trailer for the last three months so this cabin seems like a mansion in comparison.
How are the thin walls as far as noise? I imagine it's not a big deal in such a tiny structure.
We have a composting outhouse now. The inside toilet will also be composting, but mostly for inclement weather/night time use. We had the outhouse on some acreage across the road when the camper was down there and we came to like it vs an indoor toilet. It's kinda nice to go to a separate, quiet place for that business.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jul 2015 17:21
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here is a hand drawing of a 24 by 24 cabin we built 15 years ago .it had 30 in. doors throughout .all the inside walls were 2x4 and insulated for sound. May help
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rockies
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# Posted: 2 Jul 2015 19:23
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This is a plan I'm working on that seems to be quite similar to what you are doing. I personally don't see the need for a bedroom. By code a bedroom has to have at least 76 square feet of space with a minimum width of 7 feet 1 inch.
The main problem with bedrooms is "what does it do with the space when you aren't sleeping in it"? It's basically 76 square feet of space in a small cabin for a bed, maybe a small closet, and if you like the room really cramped, a dresser.
I prefer a Murphy bed in the main space. Some people say "Oh, no! I need privacy when I go to bed!" Well, the bed is only down when you actually sleep in it, and I'm guessing that other people aren't milling around your cabin when you're going to bed. In the morning put the bed up and you have a useable room. Some Murphy beds even have built-in desks or dining tables so that the bedroom becomes an office or eating area when the bed is up.
Why set aside so much space for a single function (sleep) in a small cabin? It's not like your brain cares if the bed is isolated by four walls while your asleep.
In my plan, the Murphy bed is the long yellow rectangle on the north wall of the livingroom. There is a closet next to it (smaller yellow rectangle).
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chrisser
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jul 2015 20:05
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The Murphy bed is an interesting idea (although my wife's a dedicated napper, so it would get used more often). Beds do take up an enormous amount of space.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 3 Jul 2015 00:31
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Front door, 36", interior doors, 32 inches. There is 34 and even 30" doors. I would do 32 minimum. With no door, it will be wider without the door in place anyway.
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Don_P
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# Posted: 3 Jul 2015 07:40
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Actually a 34", 2'10", door is an oddball very hard to find in anything other than an old recycle. I prefer a 32", 2'8", rough opening 2'10". To my knowledge there is no size requirement for any other door than the main egress to the house that bldginsp outlined. With the min 24" in front of the toilet I can bump my head on the wall in front of me when rising occasionally, not a deal breaker but a few more inches there is nice. For non load bearing walls, I'm working on an old farmhouse where they are simply one board thick but pay attention to utilities.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 3 Jul 2015 09:05
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For the bed, consider building a platform bed with drawers under it for storing blankets and what not and make use of the space... Wasted space in a small cabin is almost criminal.
I disagree that a 34" door is an oddball, they are stocked items at all Home Reno stores and no harder for getting screen doors etc for outside.
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 3 Jul 2015 09:26
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I went with 36" front and back door...and bathroom door and bedroom door 36 inches as well....just in case you had someone visit in a wheel chair /family member or yourself might need the 36 inch door to accommodate them at a later time. I also put in handicapped toilet and a big 5 foot shower with a seat on each side just in case.
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Martian
Member
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# Posted: 3 Jul 2015 09:49
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When looking for space, I go back to my boat days. 3/4" plywood makes a great wall and gains you at least 2".
Tom
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creeky
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# Posted: 3 Jul 2015 09:49
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that's interesting. quick search on 2 big box locations. it's far harder to find 34" doors in the US than Canada. hmph.
come on up to Canada youze all. plus 20% savings on your dollar. 
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Don_P
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# Posted: 3 Jul 2015 10:50
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I've yet to come across a new one, for whatever reason they don't exist down here except as old stock. Many times I've wanted them, a wheelchair can usually get through a 2-8 door but is too tight, a 2-10 is a good retrofit accessable door.
Turkeyhunter makes good points. It is easy to build a "Peter Pan" house, "I will never grow old". In bathrooms, even glued to the back of fiberglass showers, and wherever a client thinks they might ever need a grab bar we run 2x6 blocking centered at 36" around the room, if 2x6 walls I'll cut a notch and let in a continuous 2x6, otherwise blocking in between the 2x4 studs WELL connected.
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