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Smawgunner
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# Posted: 30 Dec 2015 20:59
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Hey all, I'm on grid with 110v electric but no water. I'm looking at a system for warm weather use only. I can't figure out how to run a system that won't freeze...long story. My thought is to have a 20-30 gallon tank under the sink and an on demand pump like you'd find in an RV but runs on 110 AC. This would be an in line and not submersible, around 70 psi. It would only kick on as a faucet would turn on. I'd also be using a 15 gallon or so hot water tank (electric). So given all that, who makes a pump for this kind of application? Thanks!
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Popeye
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# Posted: 30 Dec 2015 21:42 - Edited by: Popeye
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Check out Remco on demand pumps. I'm happy with my 12v pump and they are also available in 110v.
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darz5150
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# Posted: 30 Dec 2015 21:53
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Amazon has a good selection. Shurflo is a good brand. But there are a bunch of reputable brands.
Keep in mind how much water you have stored. If you get a pump that moves a lot of GPM, you might suck your tank dry pretty quickly.
We have a pump that moves 1.8 gpm , and it has plenty of pressure for taking a shower and doing the dishes etc.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 30 Dec 2015 21:57
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Shurflo makes 120 VAC versions of the common DC RV type pumps. Those usually have about 40 psi. That's plenty of pressure.
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Smawgunner
Member
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# Posted: 30 Dec 2015 22:16
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Thanks for the quick replies! Super info! ...I hadn't thought of the flow rate and depleting the storage tank so quickly although now seems like a no brainier!
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darz5150
Member
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# Posted: 30 Dec 2015 22:54
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Just wanted to mention the GPM thing. I learned the hard way. I originally got what I thought was the Mac/Daddy shurflo, variable flow, high velocity, no prime, super dooty, yadda yadda yadda pump. At that time I had 2- 16 gallon storage tanks......congratulating myself on how smart I was. Decided to take my first hot shower at the cabin. After getting all lathered up, singing joyfully in the shower ( born on the bayou or possibly welcome to the jungle ) then
I heard the pump make a noise I won't forget.... No water. Anyhoos I went slip sliding thru the cabin, stumbled outside, slid down to the creek naked.... Then rinsed off. Lesson learned. I bought a lower GPM pump, and put in a bigger storage tank the next week!!!!! LOL
Its funny now but not so much at the time.
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darz5150
Member
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# Posted: 30 Dec 2015 23:41
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In your OP you said you had 120 volt a/c power. So keeping your water system from freezing should be easy for you. I posted a few pics to possibly help julie2oregons question: hand pump and electric rv faucets post.
If you enclose your water tank and put a light bulb inside, it should keep it from freezing up between visits. You can put heat tape on your water supply lines.
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Smawgunner
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# Posted: 31 Dec 2015 09:06 - Edited by: Smawgunner
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Thanks Darz, I'll check it out.
Your story is halarios,...so what pump did you finally settle on?
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darz5150
Member
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# Posted: 1 Jan 2016 00:38
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I went with a shurflo 1.8 gpm. My storage tank is a 55 gallon food grade tank.
We can get 2 - 3 days out of it for doin' dishes and showers etc. Are you planning on putting in a shower also? Or water heater?
P.S. I am glad you enjoyed the story.😁👄😨
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Smawgunner
Member
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# Posted: 1 Jan 2016 18:16
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I'll be running a kitchen and bathroom sink and a shower. I thought I'd have a compact electric hot water tank too.
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Dekagoldwingers
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2016 11:49
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Hi there, we collect rainwater off the roof of cabin and shed, and filter it into an underground 1500 gal tank. The tank is buried with the top over 4' down to protect from frost. I pump the water with a 120 volt Meyers pump and run the buried lines to my cabin. The lines are good for a few degrees of frost. The water coming out of tank is filtered again then run through ultra-violet sterilization. The water passes all tests for potable but we still bring in bottled water for drinking. With a few changes such as depth of bury for lines the system would run year round. Also I could heat the pump area and run electrical heat strips for the lines till they mgo into the cabin. The 1500 gal provides lots of water for dry periods and the cost for the system is affordable. The filters into the tank (2stage) are based on a food grade 5gal bucket with panty hose filters, paper coffe filters and gravel in bucket. The tank top has a filter as well. Just a suggestion.
Cheers from BC
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Thelar
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2016 14:33
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Hey Smawgunner,
Where is the water coming from to fill your tank?
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Smawgunner
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2016 17:25
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I have a 55 gallon rain barrel that I'll transfer water to a few gallons at a time. A PITA but I'm at a loss. I only need maybe 10-15 gallons every other week.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2016 19:48
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this is what I have..
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Smawgunner
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2016 20:17
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That's exactly what I had in mind Just. Do you deal with freeze or draining your system in preparation for freeze?
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2016 20:31
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we drain come winter as we only use the place a bit in winter .
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bobrok
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2016 22:16
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Smawgunner, FWIW here's my take.
We have the same setup (shower, bathroom and kitchen sink) and we use more water than we thought we would, so think about that 20-30 gallon storage. I've installed 4 55gal. drums for storage and appreciate that I don't have to pump water every few days. It can be a PITA setting up to pump (I don't know where you get your water; we pump from a lake).
We store our water in a shed which greatly protects from frost and freezing temps. I use a garden hose on the ground between shed and camp, which can be disconnected if necessary. You, having power, could even wrap your line with heat tape for protection.
The on demand pump is in the shed as well. Hot water heater is in a closet in the camp.
Entire system is set up to gravity drain for winter.
Hope this helps.
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ILFE
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2016 07:16 - Edited by: ILFE
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Here's ours, basically. This is how we get water for shower and such in the province, at our farm. It's been working that way for over two years, now. No issues. (Oh, no cold / ice / snow to concern ourselves with, as we live in the tropics.)
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buckybuck
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2016 11:26 - Edited by: buckybuck
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I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I'd like some clarification on the hot water part of these systems. In the systems described here, does the hot water tank or container need to be sealed in order to maintain pressure?
The reason I ask is I've learned over the past couple of years that my hot water needs are minimal--a couple of gallons for a navy shower or to wash dishes, and that's it for the day. Depending on the time of day, I could see how a pot of water heated on a stove in the morning or a container left in the sun all day would satisfy my hot water needs. Ideally, I'd like a system where an on-demand pump would pull cold water at any time, but would also allow me to pour a couple of gallons of hot water into some sort of container to mix with the cold water as needed for those one or two times a day I want hot water.
I'm guessing I'd need a completely separate plumbing system and pump for the hot water, but wondered if there's a way to do it with the same pump as the cold water side.
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NorthRick
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2016 11:29
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ILFE, what's that first piece after the cistern? A filter?
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Smawgunner
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2016 11:48
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Hi Bucky,
I don't see why that would not work. That's what I'm going for. It would be just like "JUST" posted above. Similar to an RV set up. A pump would pull water from a storage take. One line goes to the cold and one line goes to a hot water tank or on demand system. Then you should be all set. I'm guessing as I'm not familiar with the system,..that the pump would kick on when the shower knob is turned on.
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ILFE
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2016 13:31 - Edited by: ILFE
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Quoting: NorthRick ILFE, what's that first piece after the cistern? A filter?
That's a typical first flush system. The one on the side of our farm house is actually considerably larger.
The first X liters (gallons) of rain need to be flushed, or diverted into a separate containment area, prior to the rest of the water being sent to your storage tanks. It just helps guarantee that you are starting with cleaner water.
On our system, we currently use rainwater jars, here in Cambodia, for storage. I will be changing over to poly tanks once I move out to the farm full time, to store higher volumes of water.
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EDIT: I'm sorry, man. It's almost 2am here. I just realized you were talking about the 50 micron strainer between the cistern and the ShurFlo pump. It's just to keep larger bits of trash from going into the impeller of the pump. It should be able to pass anything smaller than 50 microns, easily, and without damage. Sorry about that.
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Below is a link to a video a friend of mine (Brian Kemp) made for me, at my request. He did time lapse photography. I believe he took more than 5,000 frames to make this video for me. The jars made in this video are only 400 liters. They make a number of different sizes of these water jars, up to about 1,200 liters each. (We have 4-1200 liter jars at the farm, currently, and 55 square meters of collection area. I will replace them with several 10,000 and 20,000 liter poly tanks, once we move there full time.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mynC8jlLNRY
Here is a larger version of that same image:
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NorthRick
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2016 16:11
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Yes, the strainer was what I was referring to.
Quoting: ILFE Below is a link to a video a friend of mine (Brian Kemp) made for me, at my request.
You threw me a bit with the term "jar." Here in the US that is typically a glass container a liter or so in size. Pretty impressive how they make those.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2016 17:02
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Quoting: buckybuck to be sealed in order to maintain pressure?
You may be able to change a system like mine if the pump is able to handle hot water. I am not sure a surflow pump will handle warm water. IF it could, you could heat a pot of hot water on the stove and then pump the warm water into your pluming ..ie HOT SHOWER.....
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buckybuck
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2016 17:49
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I've used an on-demand pump cobbled to a Zodi water heater, so I'm sure it'll handle the temperatures I'm anticipating. I'm basically trying to figure out a real-looking plumbing system without over-engineering it.
RV plumbing systems work on the concept that there's a little bit of pressure in the pipes when no water is running, right? And the pump kicks on when the pressure drops (you turn on a faucet)? I can visualize how to put a pump between a 55-gallon water drum and the cold water faucets and have it work. But I don't want or need an RV type hot water tank--in RVs, isn't the hot water tank part of that slightly pressurized plumbing system? Instead, I'm thinking maybe a water container of some sort under the sink and a hose from it to the hot water faucets. The idea is to fill that container with hot water before taking a shower (an indoor, temperature-adjustable shower stall is a wifey/granddaughter demand) and be able to mix that warm water with the cold water in order to adjust the water temperature. I don't want to have to pressurize that container under the sink The only way I see to do this is to have a separate on-demand pump for the hot water side, which really isn't a terrible solution. Just another pump.
(I know that a little on-demand water heater would be the ideal solution. If I were a full-timer or had electricity I'd probably go that route.)
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ILFE
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2016 17:49
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Quoting: NorthRick You threw me a bit with the term "jar." Here in the US that is typically a glass container a liter or so in size. Pretty impressive how they make those.
Sorry for not being clear about something else. I just live in Cambodia. I'm not a Khmer. I'm an ol' redneck from Southern Gawga, originally. :D
Just goin' by what they call them here, "water jars". They just happen to be really big ones. Not costly, either. Can buy the jars from about $12 to $20 USD, each. (ATMs here dispense USD that are widely accepted in country, by the way. No exchange rates to lose on.)
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ILFE
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2016 18:26
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Quoting: buckybuck RV plumbing systems work on the concept that there's a little bit of pressure in the pipes when no water is running, right? And the pump kicks on when the pressure drops (you turn on a faucet)?
Exactly.
Quoting: buckybuck But I don't want or need an RV type hot water tank--in RVs, isn't the hot water tank part of that slightly pressurized plumbing system?
It is. But, I'm not sure how high the water temperature could be, that is pumped through something like a little Shurflo. The hot water would need to be on the faucet side of a water pump, in most cases.
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Durk
Member
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# Posted: 7 Feb 2016 18:31
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The Shurflo specs on the 2088-554-144 pump (12 volt, low price, rv type) say that water temp can be up to 130 degrees. Plenty hot for a shower! I've been looking into this also.
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ILFE
Member
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# Posted: 7 Feb 2016 18:42
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Quoting: Durk The Shurflo specs on the 2088-554-144 pump (12 volt, low price, rv type) say that water temp can be up to 130 degrees. Plenty hot for a shower! I've been looking into this also.
I've been pretty happy with my 4008 Revolution. 55PSI upper pressure limit, as well.
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 7 Feb 2016 18:43
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Quoting: ILFE But, I'm not sure how high the water temperature could be, that is pumped through something like a little Shurflo. The hot water would need to be on the faucet side of a water pump, in most cases.
Heated water does not pass through the pump when installed as in an RV. The pump pushes cold water into the heater tank when the hot valve is opened to allow the hot water to flow out the faucet.
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