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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 19 Feb 2016 23:17
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According to a list I looked at that was updated as of December, there are 9 pellet mills in Oregon alone. I didn't even look at California, and I'm only about 50 miles from the Cali border.
LOL, it does seem ironic to have wood pellets delivered to a cabin on forested land. However, I only have 2.5 acres. It wouldn't take long for my heating needs to clearcut my land.  It's highway and then gravel roads to my place. I can't foresee a problem having a few pallets of pellets delivered.
I'm looking at different models of stoves. Found one that includes a connected battery backup that trickle charges/stays ready and kicks in if the power should fail. Nice feature.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 20 Feb 2016 01:31
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Coyote Flats
Oh, your cabin IS big! Mine is only going to be about 400 sq. ft.! That's why I'm just picking one and trying to make the best decision. A couple of big heating sources would be total overkill, lol.
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Topper
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# Posted: 20 Feb 2016 03:09
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Quoting: Coyote Flats days are short when your as far north as I am. So my solar doesn't charge batteries a lot of the time
What latitude are you?
I'm at 65 degrees North Latitude. Less than 3 hours of daylight on December 21st.
Solar panels work well enough here thru the winter to power a Toyostove.
However, propane freezes at some 40 below & cannot be depended upon.
I'm considering replacing my inefficient gravity feed drip stove backup, with a Toyostove powered by a solar setup.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 20 Feb 2016 17:48 - Edited by: Julie2Oregon
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Well, well, well. For less than $1,500, I COULD buy my own pellet-making machine that runs on diesel. Found them on the Internet and Ebay as them, too.
Fuel pellets are made out of saw dust/wood shavings. No shortage of that. I could probably do a deal with HD and the other home improvement big box in town to pick up their sawdust. Ultimate recycling and lightweight raw materials that wouldn't be a problem for me to pick up.
These machines make other biomass pellets, too, out of corn, grain husks, etc.
Very interesting. Not saying I would do that. Certainly not right off the bat. But the possibility exists and I like possibilities, lol. I figured it did. I'm guessing that someone out there has configured a pellet-making machine that one can build.
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rockies
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# Posted: 20 Feb 2016 18:21
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Oh, the things I find.
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/much-cost-run-pellet-stove-67241.html
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 20 Feb 2016 22:02
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Quoting: rockies Oh, the things I find.http://homeguides.sfgate.com/much-cost-run-pellet-stove-67241.html
The writer doesn't define the terms of comparison or what "average" is. The "average" home uses more than 6 tons (50 bags) of pellets per year? Whoa, that's more than 300 bags per year, which would work out to one bag used almost every day of the year or two used daily for almost six months. Either his "average" home is huge or it's located in a place with LONG, and/or very cold winters!
Every piece I read by folks sharing their experiences with various models reported using one bag per day (a few used less), and their homes ranged in size from 1,200 sq. ft. to 2,300 sq. ft. in different parts of the Northeast and Midwest. The homes over 2k sq. ft. used the pellet stove in conjunction with a furnace to keep the furnace from kicking on as much. The owners of the smallest homes (about 1,200 sq. ft.) used it as the sole heat source.
My cabin will be 400 sq. ft. The pellet stove I'm most interested in at the moment is rated at 85 percent efficiency and I prefer my home to be at 68-70 degrees. I will likely get 36 hours out of a bag, hence my 2-ton estimate.
The other problem is that the writer doesn't identify the efficiency or size of the wood stoves he was using to compare. To do proper comparisons, one needs to compare apples and apples -- compare models with the same efficiency rating, same square footage of heating claims, and the same BTUs of output. THEN, you've got real data.
This is what I've been doing on my own. Comparing the efficiency ratings, BTU output, costs, etc. between the woodstove and pellet stove models I'm interested in.
There are also the individual issues. I'm 51, have Lupus, and am single. How much energy do *I* want to devote to keeping warm now and in the future? How much *can* I do on my own, will it be safe to do now and in the future, in this regard? Do I want to wake up at 3 a.m. freezing and have to go downstairs to build up a fire in the woodstove? Especially in 10 years when I'm 61?
Do I want to stack wood, deal with the bugs in wood, and the mess? As well as the intangibles of wood, not knowing how fast or well particular cords of wood will burn and if I'll have enough. Pellets are more predictable once you use them and know the brand. (I would buy single bags of different brands initially to determine the best burn for the buck before ordering pallets.)
You can't put a dollar amount on less effort, less mess, a heat source that can be loaded up and runs on its own for a day and a half (or more if I went with one with a bigger hopper) while keeping the temperature constant. That value is for the individual to decide, based on age, ability, and application.
I think that my decision comes down to what will be doable for me in the long run and will best suit my needs and realities. I'm a bit concerned that as the years go by -- along with the fact that because of my disease, my abilities and needs aren't those of a typical person my age -- a wood stove may not be my best choice. I can move 40-lb. bag of pellets with a dolly. I know that because I move similar-sized bags of dog food inside with a dolly now so I can scoop the food into a big, airtight storage bin in the house. Same concept.
I really need and appreciate input from y'all. Your thoughts, ideas, articles, and links make me think about things I may or may not have considered before and do more research! I tend to be a bit of an idealist. Beyond that, there are many, many, many things that I've never heard about and a vast variety of experiences are super-valuable.
THANK YOU!!!!!!
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Coyote Flats
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# Posted: 20 Feb 2016 22:54
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Hi Julie if your going to go with a pellet stove check out the Mini by Enviro they are made in British Columbia . I have three of Enviro stoves and they have all been good in fact all are being used presently. The Mini is rated at 30000 BTU which is big enough for your place and one of the features that it has is you can turn convection blower off by pressing a button in this mode it will cycle on and off with temperature. It's low setting is about 8000 BTU and it can be used with a thermostat. It's very quite which is important as well. With your strong dollar you will find the price is right. It is a very small foot print as well.
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Topper
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# Posted: 20 Feb 2016 23:20
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Quoting: Topper Quoting: Coyote Flats days are short when your as far north as I am. So my solar doesn't charge batteries a lot of the time What latitude are you? I'm at 65 degrees North Latitude. Less than 3 hours of daylight on December 21st. Solar panels work well enough here thru the winter to power a Toyostove. However, propane freezes at some 40 below & cannot be depended upon. I'm considering replacing my inefficient gravity feed drip stove backup, with a Toyostove powered by a solar setup.
I was curious as to why your solar set-up isn't charging your batteries.
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Coyote Flats
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# Posted: 20 Feb 2016 23:41
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Topper I'm just above Alberta border near Enterprise. We get mostly cloud cover in Nov- Dec and January. I think part of it is because of our huge lake beside us and mild winter. We get more sun on cold days.
I would love to get three hours charging per day in those months I've listed. Presently were getting about seven hours charging per day now.
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Coyote Flats
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# Posted: 20 Feb 2016 23:50
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Topper those toyostoves are awesome. I believe fan is around 70 watts i wish manufactures of this equipment would start giving options for DC fans
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 21 Feb 2016 03:33
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Quoting: Coyote Flats Hi Julie if your going to go with a pellet stove check out the Mini by Enviro they are made in British Columbia . I have three of Enviro stoves and they have all been good in fact all are being used presently. The Mini is rated at 30000 BTU which is big enough for your place and one of the features that it has is you can turn convection blower off by pressing a button in this mode it will cycle on and off with temperature. It's low setting is about 8000 BTU and it can be used with a thermostat. It's very quite which is important as well. With your strong dollar you will find the price is right. It is a very small foot print as well.
Thanks, Coyote Flats! I'll look it up. That's about the BTU rating I was looking at for my cabin.  Have you hooked yours up to a battery backup?
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Topper
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# Posted: 21 Feb 2016 04:40
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Coyote Flats,
Thanks for the info. Cloud cover sure would do it.
Used to be that solar didn't work here for much of the winter. because of the lack of daylight. Now, solar is becoming an option.
Yes, a DC Toyo sure would be nice. We have a Toyo in our in-town on-grid cabin.
We built the bush cabin in 1995 with the idea of it being our retirement home. Will be moving into it this year. Not thrilled about getting a solar system -- like to keep things simple, but being full time I do want to get rid of the drip heater...
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Coyote Flats
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# Posted: 21 Feb 2016 10:24
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Hi Julie my Mini was hooked up to my solar . In the winter how many hours of daylight do you get and what is an average temperature.
I also came across a pellet stove made in South Dakota. I can't remember the name but it also had battery backup. These stoves that have this option don't tell you that if the power goes out they only run for a short time. The backup does keep your pellet stove from smoking up your cabin when power goes out give you time to shut it down etc. if you use your fresh air and vent outside than its not an issue most of the smoke escapes out that way
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rockies
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# Posted: 21 Feb 2016 19:05
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Hi. One thing not discussed in your thread is the design of your cabin. Although it may be only 400 sq' in size another big influence on the heating requirements of your stove is the number of rooms you'll have and the thickness/insulation levels of the walls, floor and roof (as well as size, locations and number of windows and doors). A nice design feature would be a dedicated cold entry mudroom to help keep your cabin from losing all its heat every time you opened the door in winter. Also wrapping the entire cabin's exterior walls in two layers of 1" thick rigid insulation (offset seams and taped) will help keep the exterior walls from transmitting the cold through the studs and into the interior.
How will you heat the bathroom (if you plan on having one)? Usually there isn't much wall space in a bathroom for a separate heater and if you're counting on convection air currents to move the warm air from the stove around then lots of times the bathroom stays cold. Even if you have air ducts and pipes in the walls you may have to put air return grates into the bathroom wall or door in order to allow the air to circulate.
A valuable device you might also consider is an air exchanger. It transfers the heat from the stale indoor air to fresh exterior air.
http://www.vanee.ca/en/what-is-an-air-exchanger.html
Lots of times people are so concerned about how to heat the air they forget about how stale or polluted it can get, especially during the winter when nobody wants to open a window.
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mossberg fan
Member
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# Posted: 21 Feb 2016 19:44
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also check out hearth.com, might be the best site out there for researching wood, pellet,gas
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 22 Feb 2016 00:39
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rockies
Yes, I have been wondering about getting heat to the bathroom. It will be the only walled-off room. I don't know if keeping the door open (obviously when it's not in use, lol) will be enough to keep it warm in a very small cabin. The bathroom will be 56 sq. ft. (7X8)
Everything else is open-concept. The bedroom is in the loft upstairs. Since heat rises, that won't be an issue.
Can't recall the R-values of the insulation but I'll be building according to Energy Trust standards, which are very energy efficient. There are grants for doing that.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 22 Feb 2016 01:01
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Quoting: Coyote Flats Hi Julie my Mini was hooked up to my solar . In the winter how many hours of daylight do you get and what is an average temperature.
Well, it's southern Oregon and I don't live there yet, lol. From what I know, though, it depends on the year. This winter was colder and snowier. The past several years were milder with very, very little snow. I would say, on average, the daytime temps during the winter would be high 20s, low 30s and nighttimes in the teens. (Fahrenheit). Days of brilliant sunshine in the winter, followed by days of clouds. Often partly sunny. Of course, sun with snow produces power like mad.
I'll have solar and a generator. I'm sizing my solar with battery storage large enough to handle a couple of days with no sun at all and no need to use the generator to recharge. But the generator will be available to recharge the batteries, of course.
I'm looking at a number of different pellet stoves right now including the St. Croix Element, Sierra Multi-Fuel, the one you recommended, and Pleasant Hearth.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 22 Feb 2016 05:26 - Edited by: Julie2Oregon
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I've tentatively decided on the Enviro Mini pellet stove, barring some unexpected complication. There's a dealer who sells them in the city closest to my land! Well, according to Enviro's website list, anyway. I'll still shop around for the best price, though. Some of the little specialty stores in town can be a lot more expensive for the same products. The fireplace shop here in my Texas city has an outrageous markup.
Thanks for recommending it, Coyote Flats. I would never have found it on my own.
I say tentative because I've read its manual and also a recommendation from someone in the installation and repair business who loves the stove but said it needs to be installed and serviced by a trained Enviro service tech. The manual says that, too, because it's got some quirks that can really affect the stove's operation, such as damper adjustment. There's a section in the back of the manual to record the name and date of the installer and any repair people for the warranty.
So, if that's not possible, I'll have to go with my No. 2 choice, the Pleasant Hearth.
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Coyote Flats
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# Posted: 22 Feb 2016 10:25
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Hi Julie I don't believe you need a trained tech from enviro. Once you get to your property you will likely meet lots of handy people. Any good electrician can repair these units. And venting is very easy if your just going straight out the back. One thing I warn you is the side panels are held down with a total of four security screws so replace them with common machine screws or purchase that security driver. You will want to open up these panels to clean or vacuum out once a year. The damper adjustment is very easy you just watch the flame while adjusting its all in their manual.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 22 Feb 2016 14:42
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I read the Mini's manual online and it's disappointedly skimpy and confusing for a pellet stove first-timer. I'd need good tech support and an installer so that's why it's my tentative first choice, lol.
My new second choice is solid, though. It's the Heatilator Eco Choice 35. Located it at 2 stores nearby and they both install, read the manual online and it is VERY clear. It provides all sorts of diagrams of the interior parts, a cleaning schedule and how to take things apart if you need to do that.
Coolest part of the Heatilator Eco Choice (well, there are 2 cool things) is that it operates like a furnace. Once you get it started and running, it has a wall thermostat and you set the temperature. It shuts down and starts up automatically according to the temperature. Nice.
Second cool thing about the Heatilator Eco Choice is that its parts are made by and interchangeable with the much more expensive Quadra premium stove line. So it's a quality stove just not a beautiful one. 
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