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Borrego
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# Posted: 15 Mar 2016 18:30
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So after roughing it for many years, we're finally ready to get a stove and refer. My research tells me that I want a stove with no glow bar, pilot lites for burners and oven (is this correct?) and Unique makes a good one with decent reviews. The fridges are expensive but I guess that is what it is,,,,any advice on brands here or where to get them? It appears that they are only available online, but I can't believe somewhere in Southern California there is not a place I can pick one up!
All advice welcome.....
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 15 Mar 2016 18:58
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I guess you mean a propane refrigerator like the Servel? Or bigger? Or get an energy star electric and more solar?
Note the link above has a variety of warehouse locations that you can pickup at... email them.
And yes you do not want an oven with a glow bar although electric ignitors for the stove top burners are okay; low load. can be hard to find that combination in the normal household appliance names.
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beachman
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# Posted: 15 Mar 2016 19:53
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Try Ben's Discount in Nevada. They have Peerless stoves that work great off grid. They also carry Unique and Servel (Dometic) fridges. Most local propane dealers should be able to get these units.
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Coyote Flats
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# Posted: 15 Mar 2016 20:51
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I have peerless stove and I like it. My fridge is cystal cold and it been good as well. I purchased from oasis Montana
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FishHog
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2016 08:37
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I put a propane unique stove in my new cottage last summer. It has electric ignitors which take 4 D cells. Simple, cheap and reliable. And even if the batteries die you can just light it.
Haven't had to replace batteries yet.
Propane fridges are expensive, but seem to be very reliable and low maintenance. But if starting over, I'd give some serious thought to a larger solar system and electric fridge.
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Borrego
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2016 10:02
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Thanks guys, will check those out...
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Borrego
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2016 10:12
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Quoting: FishHog But if starting over, I'd give some serious thought to a larger solar system and electric fridge.
I had planned on an electric fridge until I heard from a neighbor that propane was better...I keep getting different opinions. Does the cost difference come out as a wash? Meaning the $1000 extra for a propane fridge could be spent on more solar?
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ILLWOODSMAN
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2016 11:48
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I bought my propane stove (apartment size) at lowes, no electric required at all. I also have a crystal cold propane refrigerator. Bought straight from the factory n Arthur illinois. Owner of crystal cold was a great guy to deal with, even toured the small factory. Been very happy with both.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2016 13:27 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: Borrego I had planned on an electric fridge until I heard from a neighbor that propane was better...I keep getting different opinions.
Why does he say it is better?
What is better depends on the situation. Propane is better than electric if the electricity supply is minimal. But a propane fridge costs more per cu ft of space and costs more to operate. With the low cost of PV panels today it very often makes more sense to buy more solar, probably more storage and then an efficient electric fridge. Especially for full time use. For recreational use where the fridge is not left on during absences maybe propane still makes some sense.
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FishHog
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2016 15:03
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Yeah that.
MtnDon saved me a lot of typing.
I'm still a weekender, and propane still makes sense, but when I go more permanent, my plan will be towards a larger solar system and electric fridge.
But I had the propane fridge and don't need much of a solar system currently. I suspect that will change and electric will make more sense.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2016 15:31
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If I was planning our cabin today instead of 10 years ago I would do an energy star rated fridge and spend more money on solar. Once a solar system is in place and needs to be expanded to accommodate an electric fridge that can be problematic. Is the present CC large enough to handle more panels? Is the present battery capacity large enough to cover some cloudy days? Or can the storage be expanded?
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Julie2Oregon
Member
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2016 18:20
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Can you pick up an RV fridge that can be used with either propane or electric?
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Borrego
Member
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2016 19:10
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Quoting: MtnDon Is the present CC large enough to handle more panels? Is the present battery capacity large enough to cover some cloudy days? Or can the storage be expanded?
Well good news I guess is that there is no Solar system, it's going in next fall. The roof the panels are going on is south -facing, 12 x 24 ft and there are maybe 10 cloudy days per year where I am.. All that the solar will run (besides the fridge) would be lights, music, fans, TV and coffee maker. I have no clue how many panels or batteries I will need right now, any help appreciated on that. I used your old PV spreadsheet a few years ago and it came up with 4 panels as I recall, but that was then.
Julie2Oregon
- Good idea, but I think we would prefer the look (and size) of a unit made for a house, I could call around and see what I find, I guess. Anyways thank you!
Roof where solar panels will go
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2016 19:20
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They look like regular fridges by they ARE pricey.
http://www.amazon.com/Dometic-DM2652RB-2-Way-Refrigerator-Cubic/dp/B002PL9UI0/ref=sr_ 1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1458170030&sr=8-1&keywords=dometic+2-way+refrigerator
You pay for the energy options, I guess. Refrigeration is the most constant (and one of the biggest) electrical drains.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2016 19:32
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Quoting: Julie2Oregon Can you pick up an RV fridge that can be used with either propane or electric?
Not a good idea when using off grid power. When operating on AC or DC electricity RV fridges use a resistance heating element in place of the propane burner. As always, prolonged use of electrical resistance heating when off grid is a poor use of solar power.
The Servel / Dometic propane fridges like the one I linked to earlier, also have an electric option. They use a 120 VAC resistance heater; also a poor off grid idea for everyday use. Maybe good if the propane runs out and you have a generator.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2016 19:44
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Yikes! Good to know, MtnDon!
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2016 19:49
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Quoting: Borrego ...good news I guess is that there is no Solar system
That is good news! I would start with looking for an electric fridge that is big enough for your use and comes with an Energy Star label. Some help can be found here.
You are familiar with the drill; determine average daily use, add a safety factor to cover incidentals like adding some device or getting a larger TV. Decide on the number of days of autonomy is wanted; probably 2 days would cover that location is my guess. But that depends on you and how comfortable you would be leaving the place for a few days w/o having to worry about the weather and keeping the refrigerator.
That capacity sets how much battery is needed and that decides how many panels and the rest of the hardware.
If you want to talk to an expert who has 88 systems designed and happily operating ask in several countries, ask. Not me, a friend. My email is in my profile. He will charge a fee for design and gets you discounts on equipment purchases. Nothing but good dependable equipment. Costs nothing to ask what he would do and charge. he has a performance guarantee if I am not mistaken.
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rockies
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2016 20:40
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The Sunfrost fridge is one of the most energy efficient I could find. It's a different design at 3' wide and 28 inches deep and has to be placed 4-6 inches away from the wall on the hinge side in order for the door to open (4" thick door). it's a pricey fridge but if you want a larger model that uses very little power it might work for you.
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kdrtk
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# Posted: 17 Mar 2016 14:01
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Hi Borrego. I will respond because I have the setup you inquired about. Last summer I had new Unique propane stove and refrigerator installed. The stove has no pilot or glow bar. I had the refrigerator installed with the outside venting kit. It has been less than one year but no problems yet and everything runs like new, well, because it is new. This works the best for me/my situation, I also have a propane furnace. Northern WI.
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creeky
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# Posted: 18 Mar 2016 15:18
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I have used an electric fridge on a small 1 kw solar system for 4 years full time.
This has saved me 1200 plus bucks in propane costs. Recently I was able to find a propane supplier who will fill at my farm front. This has cut my propane cost in 1/2. And reduced the hauling of 100 lbers. But I've still saving bucks. This is one of the key advantages to solar powered electric fridges off grid vs propane.
I also saved over 1,000 on the cost of the fridge.
That savings covers almost half my initial solar install cost.
If I was doing it today i would recommend. 3kw usable battery storage. lithium is the lowest long term cost and has many performance advantages. particularly lifepo4. although some of the li-mn batteries look good too. 24 or 48v. (5kw lithium or 15kw lead acid).
a 1600 watt inverter. I'm now partial to inverter / chargers as they simplify the install.
1 kw of solar panels. 60 amp solar controller.
assorted sundries: genny, transfer switch, wires etc.
Needless to say the larger electrical / solar system also runs lights, internet, water pumps, clothes/dishwasher, etc. And you save money at each stage due to the abundance of free electricity.
I would look at an electric stovetop with lithium battery storage. Induction stove tops are pretty frugal and I have seen examples where they appear to work well (ie. family of 2; in operation for over 2 years).
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Topper
Member
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# Posted: 19 Mar 2016 19:27 - Edited by: Topper
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Quoting: creeky I have used an electric fridge on a small 1 kw solar system for 4 years full time. This has saved me 1200 plus bucks in propane costs
Has anyone converted a small chest freezer to a fridge?
Any thoughts?
The Johnson Controls A19AAT-2C Freezer Temperature Controller looks to be little more than a simple plug-in...
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 19 Mar 2016 20:52
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beachman
Thanks for the link to Ben's Discount! There are a lot of interesting products there! The Peerless stove is better than the RV stove I was planning to buy and it's tall so I won't have to build a "box" to raise it up to counter height! Awesome!
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creeky
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# Posted: 19 Mar 2016 22:10
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Topper, lots of folks have converted small chest freezers. They work well. Very low kw consumption. My 10 cu ft fridge/freezer uses 320 kw a year. So a kw a day. VS a chest freezer convert around 500 watts or a bit more a day.
The issue with what is often called a "box fridge" is access. you're food is stored in box you have to reach into. So stuff disappears into the bottom of the fridge. My dad had box fridges on his sailboats. They're awkward. You can find yourself rummaging looking for those burgers you know are in there... But they work.
Apparently, some chest freezers have controls that can be set to fridge temps.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 19 Mar 2016 22:18
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creeky
Why are chest freezers much more energy-efficient than fridges?
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 19 Mar 2016 22:26
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The top opens, not the side/front. So the cold sits in the box, doesn't flow out the front.
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Topper
Member
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# Posted: 19 Mar 2016 23:46 - Edited by: Topper
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Creeky, thanks for the info.
Was planning on another propane fridge.
Have been considering going solar to replace the gravity oil backup heater with a Toyostove. The "extra" electric could power a small fridge & seperate freezer.
As was mentioned above, what the propane fridge, alone, would cost could be better spent on a solar system...
Only need a fridge for the everyday-often used items. So hopefully will reduce having to rummage for everything?
Most everybody up & down our river have a "cold hole" of some kind. My son's cold hole is a 4' diameter by 8' long culvert pipe, buried vertically. Others have a trap door inside the cabin with a winch (well wheel arrangement) to access their foodstuff.
Here in the Interior of Alaska, a cold hole will maintain a temperature of 36* F.
Figure converting a chest freezer would be better than the small fridges I've seen...
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