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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2016 17:24
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At my cabin I have two generators right now. A large 9000/7000 watt Champion and a Yamaha 2000i (very similar to the Honda eu2000i). The Champion has all the mentioned bells and whistles (power start, low-oil, and will power everything I use there and more). But it is ghastly heavy to move around and TERRIBLY LOUD! About an hour of that noise and I find myself shutting it down as much as possible, and switching to the ultra-quiet Yamaha for everything I possibly can. Given your low-wattage needs, even though expensive, go with something similar to the quiet Honda/Yamaha's. My $.02
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offgridjunkie
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2016 19:08
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The EU3000i is an awesome generator, will run most of your items, has eco mode and electric start. I know it is a little more expensive than the EU2000 and the Champion, but hands down, worth every penny if you need electric start.
I currently use a EU2000i, the most pulls I have ever had is when I forget to turn the on switch to on - then i pull my guts out til i realize I was a dumb ass. Usually 1 pull, when it is cold, may take a second. Best $900 i spent and it runs all my power tools and my air compressor.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2016 21:28
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groingo
Thanks for the tip! Would it be wrong for me to presume, then, that the best time to charge the battery via generator would be during the daytime when the panels were producing enough to take care of my light electrical needs?
Jebediah
I know what you mean about reviews, lol. The other thing that burns my biscuits is when people "review" the delivery and condition of the box. Um, REALLY?! I DON'T CARE!!!! That's something for you to address with the seller's CS and has nothing to do with the quality of the product itself!
old greybeard
I completely agree, and it sounds as though we have similar setups. I don't need TWO power sources capable of running all of my electrical needs. Just one really good, quality one and something to chip in a bit in case of emergency. If I wasn't doing a complete, quality solar power system OR if I wasn't going to be a full-timer, then a Honda 3000 (retrofitted for propane) would be my power supply. But that's not the case. Thanks for input on the Champion!!!
cman47c
I don't have anything that requires 220. I do have 12VDC needs, but the generator doesn't have to supply that.
creeky
THANK YOU for the great info particular to my situation. Yep, the inverter is 50 amp at 12V for charging. I think propane will work a treat. The other upside is I won't have to worry about cleaning a carburetor, since I have NO hands-on experience with motors. Dual fuel would be nice, just in case, but taking all things into balance, if I can't get dual fuel with everything else, then I'll go with propane.
I'm really excited about the solar capabilities. I think I'm going to be really happy with the higher wattage monocrystalline panels and the lithium battery. 
rockmtn
You raise good points. I think I'd be a bit nervous about not having a generator at all. HOWEVER, there is one piece of the equation I haven't considered and don't know if it's pertinent or can be factored in -- that camper I'll be living in during the build will have a generator.
I know nothing (YET) about RV power systems. Is it, would it be, possible to charge the solar lithium battery from the camper's generator if needed? I'm mindful of the fact, of course, that I could use the camper's appliances electrics if I had to do so, in a pinch.
Thanks so much for the help, all!
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2016 21:41
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PA_Bound and offgridjunkie
Again, my generator isn't going to get much use. I don't need a boatload of watts, I'm not going to be running power tools, and it's not going to have to power my cabin. So I'm not overly concerned about noise since it won't be running much or about it running most or all of my appliances.
Add to the hefty pricetag the cost of converting the Honda to propane and it really does bite. I'm a chick. I know nothing about cleaning carburetors or doing the propane conversion.
In weighing the power options, my budget, and other factors, I decided it made the most sense for me NOT to delay putting in a good solar power system. I can learn how to monitor and manage that once it's installed easier than having to deal with feeding and maintaining a generator day in and day out. I'm going to be living at my cabin 24/7.
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hamish
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2016 21:56
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Not trying to rain upon our parade.........yet
Get your feet on the ground where you intend to settle, see what works and what doesn't. Engineering can be calculated but only on the ground in YOUR situation can verify all the figuring. Having a maximized budget will leave you in the dark and cold at the first hiccup. Most if not all generators used in off-grid environments are used at there most ineffective state.
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KSalzwedel
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2016 22:36
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Julie, I don'the know what low Temps look like in your area, but if they run below 25 Fahrenheit I would caution you on propane. Propane does become unusable at lower temps. Just look into it, as you have researched everything else, and know it's limitations and compensate accordingly.
I too have shoulder limitations and also arthritis. Running a pull cord on a cold genny is NOT fun. I am okay, unless it is one of my "bad" days. And even then, a stubborn genny means trying to start in small shifts. It works for me. Modification is the thing, which I am certain you know.
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groingo
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2016 23:02
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Julie:
As far as charge times with the generator I always do mine at night, that way you get the time you need on the batteries with typically the lowest power use, shut generator down after X hours charge, hit the sack and next morning they are settled out and fully ready to go....this reduces charge time and fuel consumption.
I typically only let my batteries go down to 60% before using the generator, since I have a small two battery system it only takes on average two hours to get batteries charged fully using my Stanley 25 amp charger.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2016 23:12
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KSalzwedel
If propane won't work below 25 degrees, then I have much bigger problems than a generator. I know that one has to be vigilant about the propane regulator freezing up and I intended to protect the tanks and regulators. But I hadn't run into propane itself becoming unusable below 25 degrees. 
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KSalzwedel
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2016 23:26
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Sorry, I meant to say check at what Temps propane doesn't 'flow' and make sure your genny won't have trouble because of outdoor temps. We get to 25 below and have a propane stove that is fine. Just wanted you to research that aspect against your all time lows.
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hamish
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2016 23:34
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Quoting: groingo As far as charge times with the generator I always do mine at night, that way you get the time you need on the batteries with typically the lowest power use, shut generator down after X hours charge, hit the sack and next morning they are settled out and fully ready to go....this reduces charge time and fuel consumption.
Actually the inefficient use of your generator, fuel usage, and taking years off the life of your generator. One requires a bulk charger rated to ones battery bank, hit it with a hard charge then finish it off with solar. X hours...............??? 2 hours at a 25 amp charge..........without a rest period your SOC is unknown. The charger in question is not a bulk charger, your SOC when reading a full charge will be 80% or less. A hydrometer can be your friend.
If you have a 1000W generator, to get the most out of it you want to run it at 750W + (efficiency wise aka fuel, engine life and power output).
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offgridjunkie
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2016 13:33
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After reading your posts, it does seem like a 3000 or even 2000 watt generator will be overkill for you. You have many options, but have to live with the consequences of those choices due to your requirements. If you are buying a cheap small generator because it has electric start, buy 2, because when the first one dies, will be in the middle of a cold, snowy / cloudy period and your batteries will either get toasted or be useless. Having cheaper smaller generators need redundancy - I even have a back up for my Eu2000 and I don't live there full time.
We all have our opinions and what works for us, but like hamish said, get your feet on the ground and see what you really need. Most of us would not be able to survive on the 1000 watt generators as we run power tools.
Just keep researching and reading, the right thing for you will appear.
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groingo
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2016 13:36
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Hamish:
Typically the batteries start out at 25 amps and within an hour are down to 17 and at the end of the cycle they are at 13 amps which is the norm as I keep loads of records so I can track performance and see patterns.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2016 14:30
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offgridjunkie
I'm getting a 5 kw lithium battery for my solar storage. Lithium can be drawn down 80 percent without a problem and my electric load (without conservation) won't be above 1 kw/day. Thus, I could go 4 days without my solar panels producing even 1 watt of power and still be fine. With 1,000 watts of monocrystalline panels, the chances of them not producing anything in 4 days is just about nil.
Lithium also charges faster than the other batteries so generator use for charging when I want to top up the battery will be quick.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2016 14:58 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Propane, and how it behaves at lower temperatures. The 'secret' is to use large tanks / cylinders when cold weather is expected.
FWIW, if I was building a system today for my non mechanically minded wife to be comfortable with I would forgo the generator altogether. Not having a generator would simplify her maintenance.
Next I would use LFP batteries, in a protective box, inside the cabin. I would have more PV than what might be considered 'normal' (maybe 2 Kw) so if the weather got cloudy for several days the recharge time would be shortened. All the electronic hardware would be recognized names, readily available and readily serviced in the USA. Lastly, I would have a state of charge meter for simple reference.
Re the PV panels... I'd consider splitting them into two sets, 2 controllers, one facing more east or west than the other facing south. Where we are in the Jemez I'd face one set more east as it is more normal to have clear mornings and if we have clouds they are more likely to occur in the afternoon. I have seen large arrays split three ways, E, S W.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2016 23:17
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Quoting: Julie2Oregon I know nothing (YET) about RV power systems. Is it, would it be, possible to charge the solar lithium battery from the camper's generator if needed? I'm mindful of the fact, of course, that I could use the camper's appliances electrics if I had to do so, in a pinch.
Julie, how long is that camper going to be there? In these parts, a camper is usually a camping unit inside the bed of a truck, and a trailer pulls behind a truck. I assume you are referring to a trailer as most campers dont have built in gennies.
OK, reason I ask if it will be there all year is, if so, from the looks of your timber, I know you are close to 4000 feet or better. You will get heavy snow in the winter and if so, you either have to be always clearing the snow off the roof or it will collapse the roof in, especially if you have deep snow and followed up with rain. What most do it to build a covered free standing roof like a carport to house the camper/trailer. I seen Gary O had his camper collapse from some of his pictures.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2016 23:36
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech Julie, how long is that camper going to be there? In these parts, a camper is usually a camping unit inside the bed of a truck, and a trailer pulls behind a truck. I assume you are referring to a trailer as most campers dont have built in gennies.
Oh, good to know! Here in Texas, people call mobile homes "trailers." I know that's wrong but they still do it. Not what I grew up with but I had to get used to calling actual trailers "campers."
Yes, I mean a trailer, unless I have the good fortune of finding a good, used motorhome when I get there. I've seen some great ones on Craigslist in the past at very reasonable prices.
To be honest, I'm not sure how long it will be here. I think that will depend on what I end up finding for my money. If I find a good one, I'll keep it for continued use, either as sort of a guest quarters or for actual camping elsewhere myself. If I find one that's just OK, I'll stay in it during the build, harvest it for fixtures/parts, and then sell it for salvage or whatever.
I'd be cool with building a carport over it, and making it a bit bigger so my car will fit under it, too. My builder and I decided to nix the attached carport on the cabin because it was complicating the roof too much with how and where we would have had to end the roof to get a decent slope to prevent snow buildup and for that section to meet snow load and other requirements.
Yep, you're right, I'm near summit and close to 5000 feet.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2016 16:11
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Quoting: Julie2Oregon I'd be cool with building a carport over it, and making it a bit bigger so my car will fit under it, too.
Julie, you could convert a covered camper shelter to a carport later on down the road, ie a concrete slab, then later on, add walls and then have a full detached garage
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2016 17:06
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Very true! Something to take into consideration when I site these things.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2016 02:22
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toyota_mdt_tech
Gah, I would snap this up immediately if I was there. I've been watching the ads since last year and there are good deals to be had. I should be able to get something decent to live in for a couple of months for a few thousand bucks.
https://klamath.craigslist.org/rvs/5505464807.html
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Gary O
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2016 07:32
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech You will get heavy snow in the winter and if so, you either have to be always clearing the snow off the roof or it will collapse the roof in, especially if you have deep snow and followed up with rain. What most do it to build a covered free standing roof like a carport to house the camper/trailer.
YES YES YES!!
...and don't get wunna those quickie metal things.
consider a ridiculous roof pitch, like A frame pitch.
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groingo
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2016 11:32
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Julie:
Before I built my cabin I bought an Avion 32 foot trailer, got it for $5000.00 cleaned it up and lived in it off and on and in the end sold it for a profit.
I had been also looking a motor homes but after a bit of research found the trailer to be the least risky because the motor homes drive systems, engine, trany, axles, wheels and tires brakes all could become very expensive to repair if they act up, especially if you just need it for the short term, it could be fine when you get it but when you need to sell it is when they usually bite you, and if it is very old and doesn't run right you have a pile of scrap metal.
Trailers have much less risk to them and much better resale value and a lot more space per dollar.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2016 20:50
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Good points, groingo. The problem with a trailer is I'll need it right away and won't have vehicle with which to tow it. So if I find one I really like, either they'll have to deliver it or I'll have to rent a truck and the trailer hitch.
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groingo
Member
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2016 21:12
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Julie:
Had the same problem so I had the trailer delivered and it was not expensive, most tow trucks can easily handle it.
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bronco_ed
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2016 21:52 - Edited by: bronco_ed
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I would also agree... on the small hondas recommendation.
We bought a EU3000 because it could be set up via remote control. How nice to wake up and hit the button for the gen to start up.
I since read that another outfit has made the remotes to work on the smaller Hondas. So it is a possibility. (Also the small hondas can be ran in parallel)
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2016 22:32
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Quoting: bronco_ed How nice to wake up and hit the button for the gen to start up.
Even nicer to wake up and know that the sun is already doing the work for you, no fuel required. 
My whole solar power system is going to run me $6K and last a lot of years, no fuel required, providing several kilowatts of clean electricity daily. That Honda generator costs $2K and requires gasoline and oil to do what it does, providing what it does. It's not built to run 24/7/365 but I'm building my solar power system to do just that. I only want to have an inexpensive generator on hand for emergency battery charging, if needed.
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bronco_ed
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2016 23:18 - Edited by: bronco_ed
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Fantastic... Sounds like a great plan.
Also sounds like a system I would love to have. I am very interested in Solar and have only just started looking into it. Was reading your thread today, sounds like your planning will pay off for years to come. I rather liked your comment about buying quality without the bells and whistles. I also agree 100% so a little surprised on taking a chance with an inexpensive generator for an emergency. However I am sure you have done your homework perhaps charging a battery isn't really an emergency? "If needed"
Thanks for all of your posts... Do you have postings that go into detail on the solar set up? I think it would be good reading.
I am sure you are excited to get into your new cabin!
-Ed
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hamish
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2016 23:43
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You will need a generator, regardless of your system, especially while you are learning and integrating it.
As you live in the US consider an MEP-531A military surplus generator, at load is surpasses the Honda Eu2000 in fuel consumption, and you have the longevity of a diesel engine and a generator designed to run 24/7/365. Like all generator usage you just need to take advantage of the power and use it whilst the generator is running.
Generator efficiency is achieved by using it to power maximum loads and charging batteries at the same time. Consider using the generator to run your high output loads while at the same time charging your batteries...........not just charging your batteries.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 1 Apr 2016 00:32
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Quoting: bronco_ed However I am sure you have done your homework perhaps charging a battery isn't really an emergency? "If needed"
With my system, having to charge the battery using a generator WOULD be an emergency. My electric needs are very small and my system is sufficient to run for 4 days without the panels producing even 1 watt. In other words, there would pretty much have to be a several-day solar eclipse.
OR, I'd want to throw one heckuva party, complete with disco ball, and a couple of electric guitars/amps playing the night away, hahahahahaha!
Seriously, a generator is a "just in case" item, which is why I'm not putting a lot of money into one. It makes FAR more sense in my situation to put money into the actual power system.
I have a thread somewhere about the components I'm buying. The stars of the show are the monocrystalline panels, the 2K Magnum inverter charger, and the 5 kw lithium battery.
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