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Don_P
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# Posted: 3 Jun 2016 23:42 - Edited by: Don_P
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I ran across this posting from March a few minutes ago;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXTXC4nGLHM
It sounds like the gentleman did his internet research, listened to the people that told him what he wanted to hear, and is losing what he has invested.
Here's my deal, I've told you all my lowly title, I'm a builder. By telling you that I've said in some form or fashion "I'm an expert". That carries with it then, a responsibility. I'm not necessarily going to tell you what you want to hear. If there is a means or a method I want to show you and talk about, I need to try to make sure beforehand that it is safe, legal and appropriate. Why? I didn't say I was another DIY'er, I used my title. I trust I'm making my point to those in this situation... I don't throw chaff for this reason. Very likely we all contributed to this.
We can amongst the regular folk think about the same problem from the more basic standpoint of whether or not we are our brothers keeper. When we know the truth our obligations change. This couple's situation should not have happened, they could have been properly directed many times.
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AK Seabee
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# Posted: 4 Jun 2016 01:45
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I understand the need for permits as well as zoning regulations. It is sad but also a necessary evil.
From my perspective the permitting and inspection process protects a substantial investment toward housing costs. Some folks are greedy and without a conscience. They will hide structural defects or scrimp on materials to save a buck. The structural components are hidden so buyer beware.
Zoning regulates uses and protects your investment. Zoning allows us to build our dream home without the fear of a meth lab or sewer lagoon being built next door.
I get it! My home is in Anchorage with zoning, permitting and inspection. My investment is protected. It is a good thing.
On the other hand, there is no zoning, permitting, home inspections, code enforcement, fire protection, or local LEO presence where I chose to build my cabin. It is an unorganized borough for now. It comes with good and bad.
The good is that I and others truly have freedom. The freedom to build what we want how we want. We live with the consequences of our decisions, good and bad. Thats a good thing from my perspective.
I also acknowledge the "not so good". My neighbors decisions can have negative effects on my cabin life and there are no protections for me. If they make a bad decision it has the potential to negatively impact my family and property.
Sorry about the ramble, I will jump off my soap box now.
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Dekagoldwingers
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2016 00:39
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You right that song and building regs protect the rest of our communities. It's nice to think that people won't do things that impact in a negative way upon their neighbours but the truth is that they do and with annoying regularity. It's true that it's nice to be able to do your own thing and not be bothered, however if your neighbours junk pile, noise, garbage heap, and dead car collection are impacting you, you appreciate the need for regulation and enforcement.
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Dekagoldwingers
Member
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2016 00:41
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Sorry that's you are right that zone and building regs
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Gary O
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2016 09:43
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Don_P, you are an asset to this community.
No explanation necessary.
But
You hit on a subject.
A subject that has come to the fore in certain communities, with certain people.
I'm gonna call it;
Controlling governmental bodies.
Under the guise of 'what's good for this country, the good of mankind' somewhere, somehow we've lost our freedoms.
We've become cattle, standing in a government approved feed lot, feeding on government approved provender.
We've lost our ability in exercising 'due diligence', sometimes called thinking things through, investigating, or using logic.
I'm no survivalist, nor a prepper, but....
Enough.
It was a free country.
I'm taking, what I still can, back.
I'll gladly take the risk of come what may.
I'll make the decision.
I'll commune with my neighbor.
I'll bear arms if I have to.
I'll make my own ammo if I have to.
I'll build to the best of MY ability.
I'll enjoy those satisfactions and learn from MY mistakes or disappointments.
I'll do whatever I can to breathe freely, dance in the romance, of this, MY life.
Thank you, AK, for finally getting off the soapbox.
(Man, you took forever. Almost lost my train of thought...)
I can go on and on, but tend to sicken myself after typing too many words.
I'll be outside.
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2016 10:01
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A Simple Answer that some won't like but it's true nevertheless... The Goal of Govern-Mentals is for one large herd they can manage.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2016 17:28
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All of the regulations and costs surrounding a new build, the potential for delays, the very real possibility that I could find myself with winter's cold breath on my neck and my cabin still inadequate for that season led me to the decision to buy an existing place. And if I didn't meet the county-stipulated time limits for getting things done, for whatever reason, more money to renew the permits. No. Just no.
It's done, it's legal, it's something I can make my own. As long as the basic systems and structure are sound and it's livable, I'm in.
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Don_P
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jun 2016 00:02
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You all kind of missed the point in your hurry to flog that horse again. But you seem to be having fun 
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Gary O
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jun 2016 07:25
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Quoting: Don_P You all kind of missed the point in your hurry to flog that horse again
Well, if we all missed it, then clarity is suspect (it was fun though).
Please reiterate the point.
I'm thinkin' it has something to do with this;
Quoting: Don_P When we know the truth our obligations change. This couple's situation should not have happened, they could have been properly directed many times.
But, heh, I'm still missing something...I think...
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Don_P
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# Posted: 12 Jun 2016 08:53 - Edited by: Don_P
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Oh, I don't think everyone missed the point 
It is hard to think beyond our wants and put ourselves in someone else's shoes. When we encourage others to do our civil disobedience for us, we don't pay the price.
There was a family on another forum that decided to build near here. I recognized the lot as soon as they posted pictures, it was a stones throw from a house I had built. I believe I was the only one that warned them several times to check with the inspector. Everyone else was posting encouragement. They went silent probably out of fear of me (I don't do that) but got further than their posts showed us before I assume the inspector caught them. I could be nosy and ask for his side but would rather his memory fade. The second floor walls were going up. The "I'd rather ask forgiveness" period lasted through that summer as work stopped and the frame grayed. It was then removed. I doubt the work could be affordably brought into compliance... they had followed bad advice on how to build. Their camper is still there but I haven't seen them there again. From their posts, the kids had helped. You all would not, I think full well knowing what that family was walking into. Deer, bear, turkey, the river out front with fishing and paddling. Is that how we want that to go? Did you strike a blow for freedom?
As far as bureaucracy is concerned, like the sign says "You are here". There has been no serious effort to change that. The people being encouraged to do our civil disobedience are easily influenced. What concerns me more is how we treat one another under those circumstances. "Boys poke at the frog in jest, the frog dies in earnest".
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Gary O
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# Posted: 12 Jun 2016 09:04
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Quoting: Don_P The people being encouraged to do our civil disobedience are easily influenced. What concerns me more is how we treat one another under those circumstances.
ah
I gotcha
excellent point
not all circumstances are the same (authorities in our neck-o-the woods ever come out here)
I hear you loud and clear, and will cease from spouting our stance.
Its not for everyone, and certainly not for every place.
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Don_P
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jun 2016 10:00
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I don't disagree with your stance nor do I want to quench that bright fire of yours... tempered and balanced yet still wild and free is a tough balancing act .
The director inhaled deeply when he saw the poles and lashing at the scout camp this week with the boys crawling all over it. DaVinci's bridge can also make a shelter . A couple of us snuck in overnight and snugged their work up a bit, keep their fires bright, they'll be just fine.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 12 Jun 2016 19:06
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Don_P
What frustrates those of us who aren't builders and don't have technical knowledge -- and undoubtedly what must frustrate the good guys in the industry, too -- is that the system can invite high costs and problems. The good guys who do great work for fair prices are known to the locals and are booked and busy. Those who don't know who they are or who can't book them are at the mercy of everyone else, and some of them have friends in the building departments who can look the other way, which is how they stay in business. Sorry to say it but it's true.
So it's a variety of factors that lead folks to do what they do and come to their own conclusions. When you say "due diligence," it's kind of easier said than accomplished for those of us on the outside. Average people don't have the knowledge to know what to look for, even if they could be out there looking over a contractor's shoulder at every step of the way. And, sadly, fewer and fewer people are doing the right thing in being honest when it comes to references and critiques for fear of lawsuits and harassment.
Similarly, in some jurisdictions, it may be a difficult and lengthy process to pull a contractor's license yet folks assume that someone who holds a state license is qualified.
Thus, the increasing willingness to do one's own building and assume full responsibility because, in doing so, one has full control over costs, timetable, materials, etc. That only works, though, if local authorities aren't telling a person that they MUST complete within 6 months, keep renewing permits (or have to get a new permit altogether) if timelines aren't met, build to a certain minimum square footage, even though the home is only for a single empty nester like myself or for a retired couple, etc.
Not all of us have the same sort of "dream" for our various stages of life. At mine, downsizing and simplicity are my dream. To some extent, the codes (and covenants and ordinances) limit me in where and how I can live. They shouldn't. That's repressive and oppressive. For folks like us, it can seem like the whole system is actively working to force us into coalescing into agreeing to build more than what we want and need. On their timetable and at increased costs because of all of the people (beyond the builders and tradesmen) built in to the system who now need to be paid.
I would have LOVED to build exactly what I wanted. I so appreciated you and so many others offering such good info and expertise. To some extent, I feel a bit of a letdown and a sense of "selling out" for buying existing because I was so eager to have what I had researched and pondered and planned come to life. But the costs, time element, potential for delays and bureaucracy just weren't adding up. Getting stuck in a camper when the snow began to fall because the codes wouldn't let me have a small building constructed before the main cabin was completed was just one risk due to bureaucracy that I wasn't willing to take.
You see a LOT of manufactured homes on gorgeous properties in Oregon because they're built in a factory and already inspected and can be moved and assembled on the land quickly. Put in the septic, bring in the home, connect her up. Done. Compare that with the nightmare that building from scratch can bring and I fully understand why people opt for the manufactured option.
But don't you find it weird that the benefit of the doubt is given to manufactured housing but the screws are put to contractors/builders and the people who hire them?
There's got to be a happy medium somewhere.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 12 Jun 2016 21:57 - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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I have to admit I didn't watch the entire video.
The biggest mistake the gentleman made was not contacting his local building department FIRST.
As a warning to others buying existing properties...just because it's been built and occupied DOES NOT mean it is all permitted.
I'm not talking about just the structure itself,it could also be the plumbing or electrical was worked on by a layman.
As always,buyer beware.
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beachman
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# Posted: 13 Jun 2016 18:44
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Yes, the world has an abundance of idiots that most of these laws and regulations have spawned from. Many will complain about the highway police, but without them, driving would be suicide. Build with respect to the environment, with respect to your neighbors, and mostly with the safety of yourself and visitors to your property in mind. Good advice swl, but I have seen many home inspections that do not look past the window dressing put in place by unscrupulous vendors - to hide the crud.
I do agree with much of what Gary states, but there are those with no research and no ability doing things that they never should attempt.
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AK Seabee
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2016 00:54
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Great thread Don P. Makes a guy think.....
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