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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2016 23:15
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Some thoughts/input, if y'all would. So I went out to slap a new coat of paint on my shed yesterday and, to my surprise, found that the bottom of the Hardiboard is rotting in places. The shed is on skids and is about 5 inches off the ground. The shed can't be more than 14 years old because that's how old the house is. I'm the second owner of the property. I've kept it painted. Disturbing to know the Hardi is rotting already but, whatever. It's a shed and I'm selling.
HOWEVER, I was thinking of putting either Hardiboard or LP Smartside on the cabin I'm working to buy. It's wood sided now. Here's a pic. Bad idea? Should I stick with the wood? What's a good way of preserving wood so it doesn't need stained or whatever every year?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2016 23:42
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Hardi specs call for a minimum ground to lower edge distance of 6 inches IIRC. Minimum. More is better. Moisture is the usual culprit. Maybe worse when the building has no gutters as there is then more splash back.
Hardi has lots of data available online. Note that there are two types HZ5 and HZ10, depending on climate zone. I have no hesitation to use Hardi lap siding. It is what we used on our cabin. Some of our siding went on in November 2008, the balance in spring 2009. Well above grade and it looks great today. Hardi takes paint very well. I believe the Certainteed cement board lap siding can be stained. I prefer good dark pigment paint as i believe it has the longest lifespan.
Back to moisture... applying lap siding over vertical furring strips creates an air space that helps drying. Furring strips get screwed to the studs. Is your part of OR the wet part? The wall goes from the sheathing, then the weather resistant barrier (house wrap, building felt), then the furring strips and lastly the siding.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2016 23:58
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MtnDon
Thanks! Good points -- I was going to do the lap siding, not the panels, which is what the shed has. As you can see in the pic, the cabin is on a block perimeter and it also has a vented wood extension before the walls and siding begin so there's good foundation height.
This area isn't rainy but it can get quite a bit of snow. Are there special considerations I should be aware of for that?
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hattie
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2016 00:58
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We have hardiboard in our greenhouse. It was installed in 2008 and looks as good as the day they installed it. The greenhouse is a wet, damp place so it has held up very well!
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sparky30_06
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2016 06:58
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Are you sure it's Hardi?? Hardi is made from concrete and concrete can't rot. I have seen some cheap knock offs in direct contact with the ground over time start flaking apart.
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Don_P
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2016 08:23
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It is made from concrete and wood fiber. Asbestos did make for a better fiber in that regard. Some of the other brands are a little more dubious IMO.
From the age it may be from the first generation which is the reason for the two types MD mentioned, the proportioning of ingredients was modified. Accelerated testing is still not real world, we get to be the guinea pigs fairly often. However, put either in the damp for too long and they will fail. I don't believe smartside would fare any better in that environment.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2016 08:53 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Julie, in an environment east of the Cascade range, forest fires is always a issue. I like hardi board or cement siding.
I would do the planks, run it all the way up to the gable. You doing it yourself? Get the planks with the extra "line" in it, this makes it nice to set the next panel. It requires a special saw blade (diamond), create loads of cement dust, so wear a respirator when cutting (will cause silicosis which is a debilitating lung disease). I would lay a layer of felt over the existing siding or re sheet it with underlayment, then put the hardi planks over the top after the felt layer. The planks are much easier to work with (lifting) vs 4X8 sheets. It paints nicely too. Seal but ends with sealer. And seal splice joints mid run, install the sealer and then butt in the other plank. Blend the seal in with a short stiff bristled dry brush. This will keep the grain look vs a smoothed out section if you use a finger to blend it, then it shows up well after paint. Run them up tight, leave little to no gap, it doesnt expand hardly at all like wood does.
Nailing is tricky too. You can not bust the skin, I used a Makita coil siding nailer, once set, that was it. A hammer can easily knock a hole in it. Once the skin is broken, that nail is useless.
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upndown
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2016 09:51
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With the wildfire in my area, hardie is sounding like the way to go when I reside, along with a metal roof.
That being said, nothing beats being pro active with fire breaks as well as keeping combustibles away from your structure. Something we all learned from the fire 3 years ago. That's exactly what's saving their butts right now!
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2016 10:14
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Read the instructions specific to the Hardi type recommended for the area and do not deviate. Hardi has a warranty but their rules need to be followed for the warranty to be valid. They specify end gaps, clearances from deck boards, nailing, etc. etc.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2016 13:10
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I won't be doing the work myself, of course, but I WILL be supervising to the max and appreciate your collective wisdom on the best way to do it.
I was kind of thinking along the lines of not tearing off the existing siding. Prepping the cabin (I think that doing insect treatment might be wise since termites are a blight in this area), doing underlayment and whatever and then the Hardi. But, I dunno cuz I'm no builder. Your description, Toyota, sounds like what I had in mind.
Notice in the photo how the siding near the gable/eaves is vertical and then the wall siding is horizontal. Would planks work at the top and then lap siding for the walls?
This is just an aside, but the protruding, crossing beams in the corners intrigue me. What's that sort of construction called?
New, energy-efficient windows will be the first order of business, then the siding.
upndown, I am hoping to get a metal roof, as well. I'll have to price it out. Remarkably, they don't seem to be all that common in that area. And there's a huge pine tree in the front yard. Beautiful but GONE. I don't need it being struck by lightning, catching fire, and/or any section of it coming down on the cabin. Uh-uh. I've found a small timber products company that offers a variety of services and will come to your land, cut down trees and buy the logs from you -- or mill them into whatever size lumber you might need for projects. Yay! They create fire buffer zones on your property, too.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2016 13:16
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sparky30_06
I can't be 100 percent sure it's Hardi since I didn't buy the shed. It was on the property when I bought it. However, the shed bears the nameplate of a very reputable shed builder in town that uses Hardi on its sheds so it's a fair expectation that it is. The shed would be out of warranty since I've owned the property for 9 years and the basic sheds have a 7-year warranty, I believe. I suppose I could stop by their office and ask but I'm knee-deep in stuff with my storm damage and house sale so the shed is way down on my list of priorities right now.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2016 13:30
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Don_P
What's given me pause is that it wasn't frequently exposed to damp. I'm in West Texas, which is hot and dry 99.5 percent of the time. The past 2 months of constant crazy storms and massive rainfall are an anomaly. We've been in major drought, otherwise.
The bottom of the panels were never sitting in water, even with all of the rain. My backyard doesn't and hasn't flooded terribly. (The front yard does with a lot of rain because of the slope.)
So something got to it. Insects? The sudden change from years and years of drought to lots of rain and humidity? I don't know but I'm really wondering. I feel as though I need to ask a lot of questions and ponder before covering my cabin with this stuff!
I wish I had taken some pics before doing a quick fix and painting. Basically, I removed the rotted stuff on the very bottom and resecured the panels at the new bottom with some drywall screws. (Ducking, lol. It's all I had on hand.) The panels were separating from the studs. And then I repainted it with the combo paint-primer house paint the painters left me from when my house was painted last summer.
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Don_P
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2016 21:44
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No problem with non structural fasteners in non structural work 
Hard to say what happened from here... but the questions about whether it is appropriate would be asked in OR, why it failed in your yard in TX on 14 year old stock is kind of like my memory of innerseal siding, dated and probably kind of immaterial to today's problem. (Although I noticed a skeptical reference to smartside on the buildingscience site since we last spoke about it... so don't forget the junk in the attic but know what it is)
Aanyway, have you been in the pictured cabin... is it a pan abode style log home rather than siding?
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2016 22:49
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Quoting: Don_P Aanyway, have you been in the pictured cabin... is it a pan abode style log home rather than siding?
Not yet. My offer has contingencies, including a timeframe to eyeball in person. I needed to place the offer so I didn't lose it and structure it accordingly. They want to sell and it needs to be cash because the only heating system is the woodstove. Win-win. 
What's "pan abode style"? If it's that, should I maybe let it be, maybe strip the paint and stain it? This particular area isn't wildfire prone, despite the trees.
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Don_P
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2016 23:29
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pan abode made... I think they are still around, a relatively thin milled "log" home kit. I couldn't zoom in enough to really see the corner detail well. WAG. Hard to say what to do without crawling around it, find a good home inspector while you are there. Spend a little time checking them out before they check your house out. In other words they are help but keep your smarts up too. Logs don't burn as badly as thinner pieces of wood... although that doesn't mean you would want a heavily charred home after.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2016 01:02
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WAG? 
Yeah, I have a home inspector picked out. I need to run the name by my buyer broker. It's all good with the biggies -- well pump replaced a few years ago and septic system totally redone (tank, lines to the cabin, etc.) in 2009. Still, the contingencies include having the seller inspect and pump the septic system and test the well and do a state water analysis (which state law requires).
As for the exterior, I could always throw a coat of paint on this year for good measure and decide if I want to do Hardi or LP Smartside next spring. There's no urgency.
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Don_P
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2016 06:36
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Wild guess I could just be carpenter gothic. If the rest checks out waiting is good, it gives you time to do more ruminating
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2016 10:07
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Julie, I'd do the hardi planks on the gable ends too. I dont see a gable vent in the attic or is it living space up there ie a loft?
In wildfire country, you want cement board and a nice clear buffer around your home. Big trees close are usually OK as long as there is no vegetation at the base and no branches till around the 15+foot mark.
If you go metal roof, and gutters, do you get heavy snow there? Metal roofs tend to slide snow off and tear off gutters. You will need to add sno-jacks which is cleats to hold the snow in place. Also, can be dangerous when a few hundred pounds of snow slides on you too.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2016 15:42 - Edited by: Julie2Oregon
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toyota_mdt_tech
I'll have to check on the gable vent. I'm fairly sure there are vents. There isn't a finished loft. I posted this photo of the cabin because it was the best one that showed the foundation height, corner, and what the front/side siding looked like in my consideration of re-siding it. (An aside: This cabin is owned by a lawyer as a weekend/vacation getaway and while he didn't do much with interior décor/design, he did maintain and update the major stuff well. It's zoned rural residential so it can be a full-time residence.)
You raise great points about metal roofing. The roof doesn't immediately need to be replaced but I think it's getting to the age where I'll be wanting to do that soon. And because I've had roof failures in Texas' storms that have made me very roof conscious. I don't see much metal on Oregon homes but it's starting to be touted.
So, what do I do? I like metal for its longevity. Metal panels are now "cool roofs," too, and qualify as an energy-efficient upgrade and will help keep the cabin cool in the summer. On about a 750 sq. ft. roof, the cost is affordable. More than composite shingles, sure, but there's that longevity factor. There can be 50 mph wind episodes in the area that may loosen and rip off shingles over time. Metal is also great for rainwater collection, if I do that.
But there are downsides, as you pointed out. Yeah, in snowy years, this area will get snow and it's a long season. Heavy and a lot of snow is relative. The Realtors I speak with in Oregon are sweet when they hear I'm coming from Texas. They say, "Are you OK with snow? We get a lot of it." But when I mention that I moved to TX from New Hampshire, where a single snowstorm brings a couple of feet of snow, and that I grew up in Pennsylvania, they said, "Ah, OK, we don't get that much snow. You'll be fine." And I will be.
We didn't have metal roofs in NH or PA. And we did have gutters. I remember my dad telling me in the winter to look at roofs and you can tell which homes are insulated well because there was a good, several-inches-thick blanket of snow that stayed on the roof and would gently melt from the sun and warming temps. It meant that a bunch of heat wasn't escaping from your house. My dad was keen on insulation.
So maybe I stick with composite shingles? And they'll last longer in OR than they do in TX because there aren't crazy, frequent hail storms, triple-digit heat, and major wind?
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 12 Jun 2016 09:56
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Composite burn well. The metal is fine with snow jacks.
Take a peek: http://snoblox-snojax.com/
If the roof is fine, roll with it, but if you do replace it, consider the metal. I have an attic and my place gets hot in the summer, but inside, it stays so cool.
As for gable vents, I am certain there is something, I didnt see anything in the peak and if its not there, easy to add.
My vents are nice octagon cedar, but the uglier square metal ones might be better for fire. I am going to chamfer the edges on top to roll off burning embers, either adding a small chunk of trim or a bead of caulking. All trim around windows, the top part, chamfer it at a 45 degree angle. Think of blowing embers in an actual firestorm, you dont want embers to get hung up on any combustible surface.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 12 Jun 2016 19:39 - Edited by: Julie2Oregon
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There is a much lower wildfire risk for this cabin. Hopefully soon (as in a week or so), I'll be able to divulge but until everything is hammered out and signed on both ends, I really can't.
The delays are mostly on my end since my damn insurance company is fighting me on the very last repairs on my claim and told me to cease work until a new adjustor comes out. All that's left is carpet and painting in the master bedroom but I can't turn over my house/schedule a closing until it's done. Home Depot has come and measured, the carpet and padding have been selected and I've got the paint for the walls. But the adjustor isn't coming until Thursday. This is killing me.
Anyhoo, yeah, I can wait on the roof and see how it goes and talk to folks up there. The roof has been updated; the siding hasn't.
First order of business will be getting a pellet stove in because the non-EPA certified woodstove has to come out before the sale. State law.
Second will be plumbing stuff to get the bathroom and water fixtures the way I want them. I want to have a greywater system installed, too, as that will both reuse my well water for my gardening AND extend the life of my septic system and time between pump outs.
The bathroom is small so I want to have the tub/shower removed in favor of a walk-in shower stall. The kind that has a built-in seat. They're not terribly pricey and it would be mondo practical AND slightly space-saving.
I also want to have a gas on-demand water heater and, while they're at it, hook up the line for a gas stove so I can ditch the electric stove in the cabin. That will be simple because the utility/laundry room is right next to the kitchen and the water heater and stove are actually on the same wall. New kitchen faucet and sprayer while the plumber is there, too.
That work will ensure I'm comfortable for winter. Good heat and hot water sources, good shower, and efficient cooking that isn't reliant on the electric grid (in case of snow storm outages).
Then, I'll think about my new projects for the spring and summer.
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