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adktechcabin
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# Posted: 14 Jun 2016 10:41
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Hi-
I just joined the site. I'm building an addition with bathroom and bedroom onto my small camping cabin. I want to have a rainwater collection system with underground storage. The cabin is located in a cold area (NY Adirondack Park). I don't know how much storage I will need. I'm thinking one 525 gallon tank or two. Also how to plumb the system. Filters, overflow system, piping the two tanks with one pump, supply line drain for freezing protection, pump switch, etc.
I've gotten many ideas from YouTube. My system will be for a smaller part time cabin. I would like it to work during the cold of winter.
Has anyone built a similar system? I'm hoping to learn from experience. Thank you!
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Bigred292
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# Posted: 16 Jun 2016 07:43
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Got the same questions myself - will be watching.
I'm in NH and my plan is to install underground tank and make an insulated chute to contain plumbing from tank to cabin
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adktechcabin
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jun 2016 08:28
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I was thinking to have the water drain back into the tank after each use. My water line will only be ten or fifteen feet long.
Any idea what you will do for water in excess of tank capacity? Or will you turn off the acquisition system during winter? I'm not really sure about this. Will you be there or living elsewhere?
Will you somehow divert the water when the tank is full?
Also are you going to use one tank? What size? How many people will use the water during the winter? I think I will use two 525 gallon tanks. I'm thinking a line between the two near the bottom of the tanks to equalize them. One pump.
I plan to build an insulated cap for the tanks. Two inch styrofoam insulation with a couple feet of side. A small hatch in case water purchase should ever be necessary. I want to keep whatever warmth available around the tanks.
I'm having a hard time finding someone with expertise. YouTube has been my best source for info so far. I'm not sure how to plumb the intake or supply systems. I hope to find freeze proof piping. Good drains somehow.
I'm really glad someone else is looking to do a winter rainwater system too! Hopefully we will get this figured out! Thanks!
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Sleeping Bear
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jun 2016 16:12
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I just started on mine in Pensylvannia. I buried a 1800 gal tank 4 foot below the surface. I have it hooked into the gutter system with first flush units made from 3" sch 40 pvc which feeds into a trunk line of 4" sch 40 buried about 4 foot deep leading to the tank. Tank has an overflow line leading to a pit about 6 foot deep. I plan to open first flush units and bypass the tank in the winter when I am not there. Pumping system will be a submersible well pump running on solar power. I plan to install all of the electrical components in an insulated well house above the tank.
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adktechcabin
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jun 2016 18:28
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Thank you! Very interesting! That sounds like a nice big tank! Where did you buy it? How deep was the hole? Must have been pretty large. Is the overflow line inside your tank or before the water gets there? Do you use a pressure switch for the pump? How do you keep the supply line to the house from freezing during winter? Or do you not visit at all during winter? Do you drain the supply line? How? How did you figure out the correct size of your tank? I guess I have lots of questions! Sorry, hope I'm not going too crazy! Sounds like you have a really cool system! Lots of capacity!
Thank you!!!
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rockies
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jun 2016 20:35
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Probably the biggest concern is the water freezing between the tank and the cabin. There are various types of electric pipe heating tape available. You might want to run the water pipe within a larger rigid plastic pipe and either bury it or wrap it in insulation if it is above ground.
https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.15-ft-electric-pipe-heating-cable.1000176077.html
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adktechcabin
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jun 2016 21:15
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Thank you! I'm thinking about heating tape. I'll be on solar. Once in the past I used the tape. One watt per foot. So the tape drew one hundred watts. My solar system might be able to handle that constant draw. I'd rather it didn't have to though. I'm thinking the supply line to the cabin could somehow be designed to just not hold the water after use. Maybe some sort of pressure valve? Solenoid valve tied into the pump? I haven't quite figured it out yet. Thank you for your idea!
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cspot
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jun 2016 21:30
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Quoting: adktechcabin Thank you! I'm thinking about heating tape. I'll be on solar. Once in the past I used the tape. One watt per foot. So the tape drew one hundred watts. My solar system might be able to handle that constant draw. I'd rather it didn't have to though. I'm thinking the supply line to the cabin could somehow be designed to just not hold the water after use. Maybe some sort of pressure valve? Solenoid valve tied into the pump? I haven't quite figured it out yet. Thank you for your idea!
I think they make heat tape that runs on a thermostat which may help save some power. If you can box it in with alot of insulation that would help as well.
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adktechcabin
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jun 2016 21:59
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Thanks! I haven't used the tape for a long time. I think mine did have a thermostat now that I think of it. And I did insulate. The Adirondack mountains are really cold a lot during winter. The batteries would be in a cold unheated space too (when I'm not there). Heat tape could do the job if I can't think of a powerless solution.
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Sleeping Bear
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2016 07:42
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I got the Tank from Plastic Mart it is a low profile Cistern tank. The hole was approx. 8 ft deep x 8 ft wide x 14 ft long. The overflow line comes from the top of the tank through a kind of P-trap and runs bout 4-5 foot underground which is below the frost line where I am at, it also has a check valve and rodent barrier on the end of it. I lined the hole with polystyrene insulation before it was back filled. I spend approx 4 weeks there in the winter. The plan is to run the supply line as deep as I can and insulate it as best as i can. I will drain the line when I leave. This system is not cheap as I will have about $10k invested before I am done but I should not have to worry about water or water lines ever again unless of course it does not rain.
I realize not every one can spend that kind of money on a do it yourself project but this is a long term project and a labor of love. My cabin was built around 1810 and I took it apart and moved it to its current location in 2000 a year later I moved a post and beam barn to the same location with the help of the Amish. I work in the Oil business as a Mechanical Designer and I like the challenge of doing things differently. This place is my Golden Parachute and will be Home some day or when I get laid off. It has been done in stages and paid for as I go. The Rainwater collection system has been in the planning and Design stage for about 2 years, and I sure hope it works. A lot of what I used is based off of what the Australians do only I adapted it to a cold climate.
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Sleeping Bear
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2016 07:49
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Here is a drawing showing how I hooked up the tank. It does not show the overflow piping. The overflow exits at the same level as the inlet.
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adktechcabin
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2016 08:26
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Thank you! You sure have an interesting place! Quite a project and plan! Rodent barrier...what a great idea! I would have never thought of that. It sure sounds like you have thought this all out! I imagine you could write quite a piece on putting this all together.
It is sure a great lesson for me! Thanks again!
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adktechcabin
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2016 20:26
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Sleeping Bear, do you think two five hundred twenty-five gallon tanks would be good for a one bedroom cabin? What type water pump do you use? Does it have a pressure switch of some sort?
Thanks!
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2016 22:31
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when you arrive at the cabin turn on the heat and fill the small tank in the cabin by turning on bilge pump. Use the Surflow to run all your inside water needs . Refill small tank as needed . Outside water lines will drain themselves. Drain the inside lines and the surflow pump before you leave for home .I M O One tank of water would be big enough .
how I see it
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top tank only for your filter
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adktechcabin
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2016 08:02
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Thank you! I have been thinking about a bilge pump. I like the idea of a second tank inside. I have to figure out where to fit it. I'm pretty tight in there. That would sure solve some problems. The hole in the supply line from the underground tank would solve the draining problem too.
In your filter you use swimming pool salt? And you add bleach. I guess that is to kill off any bacteria? I'm guessing you don't drink the water. I don't really need the water for drinking. I have always bought drinking water out of convenience.
One underground water tank would make the job easier too!
Thanks again very much!!! You have given me lots to think about! I can't wait to take a shower in my cabin!
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NorthRick
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2016 11:59
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Quoting: adktechcabin do you think two five hundred twenty-five gallon tanks would be good for a one bedroom cabin?
You need to figure out your water requirements. We can't tell you what you'll use. When setting up remote man camps up here in Alaska, they typically plan on 90 gallons per person per day. In Anchorage, I believe the design criteria for a septic system is 100 gallons per bedroom per day.
That's a lot of water. You can get by on considerably less. We typically use 6 gallons total for 2 people for 2 days at our cabin. Mostly cooking and doing dishes. We have an outhouse and do not normally take showers while at the cabin.
I'd start by estimating how much water you need for each shower, toilet flush, to do dishes, etc. Then guess at how many times you will do each item per visit. You then have a good feel for how much water you need each time you go out.
After that, find the precipitation data for your area. You should be able to find monthly averages. Use this data and the area of your roof that you will use to capture water to get some idea of what you can expect to collect each month.
Use all that to get an idea on how big of a tank you will need to carry you through dry months and freezing months. It's all a bit of an exercise, but in the end you are much more likely to have a system that works for your needs.
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adktechcabin
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2016 12:05
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Thank you! That sounds like a great methodical way to approach how much storage I will need. I think shorter showers there would be a real good idea! I have to figure out some numbers. Thanks again!
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2016 17:07
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Quoting: adktechcabin pool salt?
that's pool " sand " not salt any course sand will work..
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adktechcabin
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2016 17:10 - Edited by: adktechcabin
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Thank you! That makes a lot more sense! Only "sa" was on the drawing.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2016 17:38
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that drawing has been posted many times I have one and it works great we drink the water after its boiled "only" ..
its very important to filter the water before it goes into the tank
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adktechcabin
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2016 17:52
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Thank you! Makes sense!
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Sleeping Bear
Member
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# Posted: 20 Jun 2016 08:53
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We currently have a 100 gallon tank that we fill approx. 8 times per summer. The 1800 gallon tank has a grundfoss submersible pump just like would be in a water well connected to a pressure switch and a low volume float switch.
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adktechcabin
Member
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# Posted: 20 Jun 2016 09:18
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So you use two tanks like Just. I'm starting to think about adding a second tank to my design. It's a new idea for me. I bought an instant water heater of larger capacity so that it could heat colder water better. Maybe I should go with a second tank and not use the "winter" water heater setting.
Thank you!
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carlveil
Member
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2016 14:01
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Quoting: Just when you arrive at the cabin turn on the heat and fill the small tank in the cabin by turning on bilge pump. Use the Surflow to run all your inside water needs . Refill small tank as needed . Outside water lines will drain themselves. Drain the inside lines and the surflow pump before you leave for home .
Would this work out for someone who wants to get water directly from a river?
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2016 20:57
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should work if the river dosent freeze to the bottom .the water line might be hard to bury deep enough.
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